Egypt disappears from the internet

[Obiwanshinobi]

Apparently pretty much all the internet and mobile phone communication got switched off over there. Unprecedented, isn't it?.

[burgerkingdiamond]

Apparently pretty much all the internet and mobile phone communication got switched off over there. Unprecedented, isn't it?.

I'm guessing this has to do with the protesting going on over there. I saw something about that on TV while I was eating at some Pizza joint yesterday. Don't know what it's about though.

That's pretty fucked up though. Ahh the joys of living in a 3rd world country. Damn the middle east sucks.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Seems like a revolution of sorts.

[burgerkingdiamond]

Seems like a revolution of sorts.

oh yeah, I remember reading that captions. Something about asking the president to step down.

[Domino]

After mass protesting in Tunisia which made its "President" left the country people in the Middle East are fed up with these "Presidents" who are corrupt and holding power for over 30+ years (no democracy in these countries). When the people are poor with high inflation in those countries the Tunisia case is the turning point to all the other arab countries in the arab world that you can't be rulling with an iron fist when your own people are hurting.

The people of Iran are pissed off at their own government since there's a big jobless rate and huge inflation and what does the government tries to do: Attack the west, Israel, democracy, etc. The people of Iran don't give a shit about that, they want jobs.

That's why many people in the arab world are fed up with their governments.

[njiska]

This is pretty much what you need to know: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egypt_protests

Long story short:

Asshole in power
People are angry
Tunisia ousted their Asshole in power, so now the Egyptians want to do the same.
At least 4 recorded cases of self-immolation

[Lordstar]

At least 4 recorded cases of self-immolation

runs to google. . .
clicks http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-immolation


Oh god thats awfull.

[greg]

Yeah, I think I'd rather stick my head in a fish tank until I stop breathing. But I guess it's not as dramatic as setting myself on fire. I bet there must be some point in the act in which the person really changes his mind and decides it wasn't such a good idea afterall, but by then it's too late.

[ryu]

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/01/al-jazeera/

[burgerkingdiamond]

Yeah, I think I'd rather stick my head in a fish tank until I stop breathing. But I guess it's not as dramatic as setting myself on fire. I bet there must be some point in the act in which the person really changes his mind and decides it wasn't such a good idea afterall, but by then it's too late.

I can't believe people do this. I saw a vid on YouTube of a Vietnamese Buddhist monk do it. He sat completely still the whole time. Didn't even flinch.

[Skykid]

(no democracy in these countries)

Which country can you think of that's actually democratic? If people in the west could look past their TV's and celebrity magazines they might realise that they're slaves of a social hierarchy.
We're about due a revolution too - it should have happened with the bank bailouts.

[evil_ash_xero]

That's great for people to want a revolution, but i'm worried it'll just give some radical muslim groups the chance to gain power. I know that the Muslim Brotherhood is involved. And that's...well, that's all they/we need.

[njiska]

(no democracy in these countries)

Which country can you think of that's actually democratic? If people in the west could look past their TV's and celebrity magazines they might realise that they're slaves of a social hierarchy.
We're about due a revolution too - it should have happened with the bank bailouts.

Let's keep the bullshit politics out of this thread. There are for more important things to discuss.

[Obiwanshinobi]

The sad thing is, western world will be probably happy with the worst scum running things over there as long as they don't have weapons of mass destruction handy and are not radical Muslims.
Speaking of countries where revolutions happened in the last century's second half, is Cuba in better shape than Iran in terms of people's welfare and freedom? I doubt it.

[ryu]

The sad thing is, western world will be probably happy with the worst scum running things over there as long as they don't have weapons of mass destruction handy and are not radical Muslims.
Is Cuba in better shape than Iran in terms of people's welfare and freedom? I doubt it.

that's why you only hear about this stuff when shit is really breaking down and the media wants to shine

[Skykid]

(no democracy in these countries)

Which country can you think of that's actually democratic? If people in the west could look past their TV's and celebrity magazines they might realise that they're slaves of a social hierarchy.
We're about due a revolution too - it should have happened with the bank bailouts.

Let's keep the bullshit politics out of this thread. There are for more important things to discuss.

Sorry Dad, I'll keep a lid on it.

[njiska]

Sorry Dad, I'll keep a lid on it.

Good boy.

[greg]

That's great for people to want a revolution, but i'm worried it'll just give some radical muslim groups the chance to gain power. I know that the Muslim Brotherhood is involved. And that's...well, that's all they/we need.

Yeah, despite female genital mutilation being officially illegal in Egypt, the country is notorious for it. I only fear that Egypt will become another Islamofascist country. That's sad because Egypt is a tourist hotspot and a cultural heritage of the world, and their beautiful women deserve to keep their joy buttons intact.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Muslim women in western eyes play a role similar to that of Jews during the World War II. Now it's easy to get the impression that allies fought Nazis for the sake of stopping the Holocaust, but that wasn't exactly the case (and hardly anybody remembers about the Holocaust of - nomen omen - Gypsys for example).
Now the women thing is convenient if you wanna single out Islamic countires as particulary fucked up parts of the world, but nobody's gonna "do something about it" as far as Realpolitik gets. Is the situation of women in Islamic Republic of Afghanistan occupied by the US and their allies any better than it used to be in Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan? I doubt it as well.

[louisg]

Muslim women in western eyes play a role similar to that of Jews during the World War II.

Islamofascist

Ok, let me stop you guys right there. This is absurd. How are "muslim women playing a role similar to Jews in WWII"? They might be mistreated in some countries, but that's not nearly the same as being rounded up and loaded into gas chambers. That is some serious hyperbole.

And the term Islamofascist is stupid. First, something like the Taliban has nothing to do with fascism. Second, it sounds like it should be trademarked, like Pop-o-matic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism
Read, dummy!

Which country can you think of that's actually democratic? If people in the west could look past their TV's and celebrity magazines they might realise that they're slaves of a social hierarchy.
We're about due a revolution too - it should have happened with the bank bailouts.

JESUS CHRIST, what is this, freaking Matrix Revolutions?

[greg]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism
Read, dummy!

Hey, don't call me a dummy. Let's use your precious wikipedia's definition.

Fascism (pronounced /ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is a radical and authoritarian nationalist political ideology.Fascists seek to organize a country according to a particular nationalist strand of corporatist values and perspectives, with an emphasis on enforcing a collectivist form of political and economic organisation based on a tightly prescribed national identity.

OK, now let's do a Find/Replace All with the word "nationalist" with the word "Islamic" and "economic" or "corporatist" with "religious"

Islamofascism is a radical and authoritarian Islamic political ideology. Islamofascists seek to organize a country according to a particular Islamic strand of religious values and perspectives, with an emphasis on enforcing a collectivist form of political and religious organisation based on a tightly prescribed Islamic identity.

Not to mention that just as Hitler and Mussolini, they want to establish this order upon the world.

Anyhow, I agree with njiska. I'm not in the mood for a political debate.

[njiska]

Muslim women in western eyes play a role similar to that of Jews during the World War II. Now it's easy to get the impression that allies fought Nazis for the sake of stopping the Holocaust, but that wasn't exactly the case (and hardly anybody remembers about the Holocaust of - nomen omen - Gypsys for example).

Or the Polish, mentally handicapped, homosexual, mixed race, darkies of all races. Pretty much any non-German that they didn't have an alliance with.

[xris]

It is a damn shame that they have locked out the internet in their country. That should be one of the biggest warnings to the world in general. If those that are in power want to keep people ignorant, then there is a huge problem.
Many cultures should really examine the way the Serbians overthrew their government after the Bosnian war. I have worked with quite a few Bosnians that have immigrated after fighting in the war. They have the highest respect for the Serbians after they did that.

[louisg]

OK, now let's do a Find/Replace All with the word "nationalist" with the word "Islamic" and "economic" or "corporatist" with "religious"

Seriously?

I'm pretty sure you could do that to prove that a sea otter is a carrot too.

[greg]

Seriously?

I'm pretty sure you could do that to prove that a sea otter is a carrot too.

OK, I've liked your posts before about games and such, but I'll have to keep in mind that logic won't work with you in these types of discussions. Read what I wrote and it makes perfect sense. These nuts want to enforce their tightly defined view of the Islamic religion on the world by whatever violent means they have. Just replace the nationalistic sense of one's own country being superior and using that as a justification to wreak havoc on other nations and cultures (fascism) with one's militant religion and you have quite a justification for the term "Islamofascist." I understand that it's an overused term that is often used by empty-headed morons, but the term is sound.

[Ex-Cyber]

OK, now let's do a Find/Replace All with the word "nationalist" with the word "Islamic"

Removing nationalism from fascism really makes it not fascism anymore. The main thrust of fascism is to have a rebirth of the nation (in the academic sense of the term "nation", i.e. a people who share a common history) by purging "impure" influences whether they be ethnic, racial, cultural, intellectual, or whatever. The premise is that "our nation" is naturally great, but is being dragged down by foreign/impure interests and those loyal to such interests. Religion can certainly be a part of that, to the extent that it's a component of national/ethnic identity and a vehicle for influencing people. However, if the whole thing is about religion, there's already a term for that: theocracy.

Anyway, I think the Egyptian situation brings up a broader question: how hard is it, really, to order a shutdown like this? It's tempting to write off Egypt as an outlier with relatively weak IP infrastructure and a dictatorial government, but I'm not sure anyone is all that far removed from a similar situation. Would any country's Internet access usefully survive the shutdown of the top 3 or 4 ISPs (or the shutdown of the top exchange points, for that matter)?

[TrevHead (TVR)]

Its good that these arab countries are getting rid of their dictators but its whose gonna get in power that worries me.

As someone has already touched on, Most ppl only really care about jobs, food and shelter, the simple things, of which ppl are prepared to give up their freedoms for.
Thats how the Nazis got in power, infact where I live which is the area most of the London bombers came from in west yorkshire the BNP get allot of votes. And I know of quite a few muslims who vote for them because they promise theyll put a stop to eastern european immigrant workers coming into the country.

EDIT I bet it was because of rebel groups putting shit up on the net and news agentcies like the BBC reporting about that facebook page that the rebels used, that was the catalyst for the Egyptian government to stamp down on everything so harshly. Anyone know if the facebook page is still up?

[greg]

However, if the whole thing is about religion, there's already a term for that: theocracy.

Not at all. A theocracy in itself is harmless. It depends on the nature of the religion in question. I understand that militant Muslims are not "fascist" by the political and dictionary sense, but "Islamofascist" is a tongue-in-cheek term that describes the mindset and behaviors. The Nazies believed, "You aren't a part of our perfect race? Die." Then you have the Islamic terrorists who say, "You aren't a part of our perfect religion? Die." It's really no more complex than that. Nitpick semantics all you like. Anyhow, I hope for the best for Egypt. I read yesterday that Yemen is going through the same thing right now with riots.

[Zeron]

These things always never finish good in the end.

trust me I know

[louisg]

Seriously?

I'm pretty sure you could do that to prove that a sea otter is a carrot too.

OK, I've liked your posts before about games and such, but I'll have to keep in mind that logic won't work with you in these types of discussions. Read what I wrote and it makes perfect sense. These nuts want to enforce their tightly defined view of the Islamic religion on the world by whatever violent means they have. Just replace the nationalistic sense of one's own country being superior and using that as a justification to wreak havoc on other nations and cultures (fascism) with one's militant religion and you have quite a justification for the term "Islamofascist." I understand that it's an overused term that is often used by empty-headed morons, but the term is sound.

I don't think it's sound at all. I think it's one part of a larger attempt to tie modern events to WWII, which is widely perceived as the last "good" war. Some examples: comparing leaders we don't like to Hitler, 9/11 to Pearl Harbor, comparing the American-allied and occupied Iraq as similar to post-war Japan, and finally random authoritarian systems to fascism... it's all part of a political strategy. To use the term is to buy into that political viewpoint, intentionally or not. There are many oppressive forms of government; fascism is just one of them.