Whatever happened to the Ketsui Dump?

[monouchi]

Then don't use Evrain's MAMEUI. Use the executable austere linked.

Cannot find the link.

[RetroRepair]

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... &start=480 12th post down

[monouchi]

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... &start=480 12th post down

Thanks.

[roker]

Yep ive been playing ketsui perfectly for an hour now , officially the best shmup day ever thanks so much to everyone involved in getting this working .

Now, all that's left is pixelcorps officially declaring The Dump Ever a success

My donation finally paid off ...

3 years later!


Whatever, it's here.

I just did a fresh install of Snow Leopard on my mac with a partition setup for an XP install.

I'll be playing Ketsui by tomorrow.

laters.

[emphatic]

Ok, we need a bit more help. For people who know the games very well or have to pcb nearby for comparison.


Enable cheat in mame with the line

Code: Select all

Cheat    1

in mame.ini


Then while playing either game, play with the framerate in the slider options (tab to bring up the menu). And try to find the fps value the closest to what the in-game speed should be, post your results here.

P.S. the framerate is not the actual problem, but there is a "timer" that is wrong and knowing the correct speed the game should run will help us a great deal finding how that timer should be handled.

I'm gonna bump this request. I've yet to try it in MAME (I'm having computer issues) so I'll have to pass for now.

[Udderdude]

My results after playing with it, is that the game is going about 4-5 FPS too fast. This may seem like a lot, though.

[Zeron]

My results after playing with it, is that the game is going about 4-5 FPS too fast. This may seem like a lot, though.

Similiar results here 3-4 fps too fast

[Exo]

My results after playing with it, is that the game is going about 4-5 FPS too fast. This may seem like a lot, though.

Similiar results here 3-4 fps too fast

Same here.
If youre good at ketsui youre probably familiar with the airlock exploit.
This requires you to use the c-shot to launch the smallest possible wave of shots (1 line) which is aloooooooooot harder in this emulated version because its running too fast.
I can hit it 99% of the time on my 360 but on mame..damn.. shit just got real

[PROMETHEUS]

oh my god I had missed the news since back label
I don't even know what to say...
I'll start with a huge thank you to all the MAME development guys.
o______o !!!

this is SO EPIC !!

Prom, thought of you immediately because DOJ/DOJBL has very responsive controls... I don't think there's any input lag.

Indeed there is none (just 1 frame, which is fine).

This is huge huge news. I see this as the dawn of a new era for shmups, where more people will be able to discover those great, more modern Cave games.

As for me, it means I'm going to be transitionning to prosecuting DDP DOJ BL big time.

[bcass]

My results after playing with it, is that the game is going about 4-5 FPS too fast. This may seem like a lot, though.

Similiar results here 3-4 fps too fast

Same here.
If youre good at ketsui youre probably familiar with the airlock exploit.
This requires you to use the c-shot to launch the smallest possible wave of shots (1 line) which is aloooooooooot harder in this emulated version because its running too fast.
I can hit it 99% of the time on my 360 but on mame..damn.. shit just got real

Was it emphatic(?) who mentioned previously that the 360 port ran slightly faster than the PCB? If that can be proved, then people should be using the PCB as the benchmark for speed accuracy, not the 360 port.

[Exo]

Was it emphatic(?) who mentioned previously that the 360 port ran slightly faster than the PCB? If that can be proved, then people should be using the PCB as the benchmark for speed accuracy, not the 360 port.

If thats the case then the mame version runs WAY too fast ^^
I only know that the PCB has a few more slowdowns than the 360 version but im not aware of a generally higher fps on the 360 port.

[Zeron]

Rank is still around in DoJ white label right? Its only in Black Label where its missing in action?

[MoonZ]

Was it emphatic(?) who mentioned previously that the 360 port ran slightly faster than the PCB? If that can be proved, then people should be using the PCB as the benchmark for speed accuracy, not the 360 port.

Erhune, who we can say is familiar enough with the game, told me that the 360 port is 1/60 faster than its arcade counterpart.

[Kaiser]

Was it emphatic(?) who mentioned previously that the 360 port ran slightly faster than the PCB? If that can be proved, then people should be using the PCB as the benchmark for speed accuracy, not the 360 port.

Erhune, who we can say is familiar enough with the game, told me that the 360 port is 1/60 faster than its arcade counterpart.

So does this mean the original PCB ran on 59 FPS?

[Zeron]

Was it emphatic(?) who mentioned previously that the 360 port ran slightly faster than the PCB? If that can be proved, then people should be using the PCB as the benchmark for speed accuracy, not the 360 port.

Erhune, who we can say is familiar enough with the game, told me that the 360 port is 1/60 faster than its arcade counterpart.

So does this mean the original PCB ran on 59 FPS?

Well actually NTSC video system runs on 59.94fps. I would assume the 360 port runs on true 60fps

[emphatic]

I saw a video once that showed a stage 1 comparison between the PCB and the port and the port reached the boss about 3 seconds before the boss.

I had a chance to play the MAME emulated Ketsui in my cabinet earlier today, and I thought it felt kinda like the 360 port, speedwise. I remember playing the PCB after really playing the port a whole lot, and the PCB felt shockingly slow in comparison. The computer I ran MAME on is an old Pentium 4 though, so it might have some unintended slowdown.

Edit: Comparison clip link: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm10048007 (I hope it's not dead)
Edit2: If you don't have a nicovideo account, use this site to redirect the above link: http://www.mmcafe.com/nico.html
Edit3: It's the correct video, but you'll have to be patient, it's a bit into it.
Edit4: I just had a thought.

Why not just use a stopwatch to time the stage1 from the player selects ship up to the dome opens and reveals the stage1 boss? Then play it in MAME and adjust the CPU clock or whatever until you get the same result? The stage is the exact same length up to the boss, so this should work to get the speed right.

[LtC]

I saw a video once that showed a stage 1 comparison between the PCB and the port and the port reached the boss about 3 seconds before the boss.

I had a chance to play the MAME emulated Ketsui in my cabinet earlier today, and I thought it felt kinda like the 360 port, speedwise. I remember playing the PCB after really playing the port a whole lot, and the PCB felt shockingly slow in comparison. The computer I ran MAME on is an old Pentium 4 though, so it might have some unintended slowdown.

Edit: Comparison clip link: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm10048007 (I hope it's not dead)
Edit2: If you don't have a nicovideo account, use this site to redirect the above link: http://www.mmcafe.com/nico.html
Edit3: It's the correct video, but you'll have to be patient, it's a bit into it.

I did a comparison clip of my own and from the starting point (when the airplane releases the player ship) it took ~103 seconds for MAME to reach the warning screen and ~105 seconds for the arcade version (Comparing to MMM's video played on the PCB). The difference was slightly under 2 seconds

[emphatic]

He he he. I was too slow with my 4th edit.

[Evrain]

One non-emulation related thought: 2002 sure was a golden year for CAVE, Ketsui and DaiOuJou are incredible games hands down, never played anything this good from them since that gorgeous Progear no Arashi.

[Skykid]

One non-emulation related thought: 2002 sure was a golden year for CAVE, Ketsui and DaiOuJou are incredible games hands down, never played anything this good from them since that gorgeous Progear no Arashi.

It was the best year in the company's history in my book.

[bcass]

One non-emulation related thought: 2002 sure was a golden year for CAVE, Ketsui and DaiOuJou are incredible games hands down, never played anything this good from them since that gorgeous Progear no Arashi.

Agreed. Despite the insane difficulty, there's a purity to these titles that is sadly missing from pretty much everything after, especially the most recent titles. I think the ever increasing emphasis on complex game mechanics and other forms of convolution are taking precedence over good old fashioned gameplay.

[Zeron]

One non-emulation related thought: 2002 sure was a golden year for CAVE, Ketsui and DaiOuJou are incredible games hands down, never played anything this good from them since that gorgeous Progear no Arashi.

I have to agree the golden years funny since the board they run on is not even their own.

[mjclark]

I did a comparison clip of my own and from the starting point (when the airplane releases the player ship) it took ~103 seconds for MAME to reach the warning screen and ~105 seconds for the arcade version (Comparing to MMM's video played on the PCB). The difference was slightly under 2 seconds

Well that is ~1/60 faster.

[austere]

Why not just use a stopwatch to time the stage1 from the player selects ship up to the dome opens and reveals the stage1 boss? Then play it in MAME and adjust the CPU clock or whatever until you get the same result? The stage is the exact same length up to the boss, so this should work to get the speed right.

I was going to make a request similar to this, actually.

Insert a coin, press start and start the stopwatch simultaneously. Don't actually play, just let it run until it game overs and the moment the scream starts, stop the stopwatch. Do 3 or so measurements like this and please let us know the results!

[Zeron]

Insert a coin, press start and start the stopwatch simultaneously. Don't actually play, just let it run until it game overs and the moment the scream starts, stop the stopwatch. Do 3 or so measurements like this and please let us know the results!

This sound like a good idea but there is indeed a lack of PCB owners.

[third_strike]

Why not just use a stopwatch to time the stage1 from the player selects ship up to the dome opens and reveals the stage1 boss? Then play it in MAME and adjust the CPU clock or whatever until you get the same result? The stage is the exact same length up to the boss, so this should work to get the speed right.

I was going to make a request similar to this, actually.

Insert a coin, press start and start the stopwatch simultaneously. Don't actually play, just let it run until it game overs and the moment the scream starts, stop the stopwatch. Do 3 or so measurements like this and please let us know the results!

DOJBLX = DOJBLMAME , but I guess this don't worth.

[austere]

This sound like a good idea but there is indeed a lack of PCB owners.

Surely between here and cave-stg there will be a Ketsui PCB owner willing to lend us a hand. There's also Guru who may still have the PCB and who could do a much more accurate test with his equipment, but he's a difficult man to contact.

A slight modification to the procedure, as per a suggestion from LtC in order to increase the precision of the test:

Increase the initial stock to 5 in the dip settings. Insert a coin, press start and start the stopwatch simultaneously. Don't actually play, just let it run until it game overs and the moment the scream starts, stop the stopwatch. Do 3 or so measurements like this and please let us know the results!

[Zeron]

This sound like a good idea but there is indeed a lack of PCB owners.

Surely between here and cave-stg there will be a Ketsui PCB owner willing to lend us a hand. There's also Guru who may still have the PCB and who could do a much more accurate test with his equipment, but he's a difficult man to contact.

A slight modification to the procedure, as per a suggestion from LtC in order to increase the precision of the test:

Increase the initial stock to 5 in the dip settings. Insert a coin, press start and start the stopwatch simultaneously. Don't actually play, just let it run until it game overs and the moment the scream starts, stop the stopwatch. Do 3 or so measurements like this and please let us know the results!

True but when it comes to DoJ Black Label thats not what I understand a common PCB at all.

[emphatic]

True but when it comes to DoJ Black Label thats not what I understand a common PCB at all.

No, but the clock speed will be the same for the hardware so testing with DOJ or Ketsui will get the needed info for DOJ BL as well. Perhaps kernow can put his PCB to good use for once?

Edit: So, who will create a MAME logo sporting a top hat for the next ShmupMAME release?

[charlie chong]

runs too slow on my computer for me to compare to the pcb using evrains build
i could try command line but im lazy
actuall just tried again and it is running fine now.it's deffo faster than both 360 and pcb.
what do you want me to time on the pcb?