ST: Full Extent of the Jam - Playing Shmups Competitively

[PROMETHEUS]

The Full Extent of the Jam

Hello fellow shmuppers !

After a lot of strategy, practicing and technical talks on various threads, I had decided, a long time ago, to write a document containing all of the most useful advice that I can give to other players looking to get better at their shmup of choice, using DoDonPachi as a reference for all examples, since it is the shooting game I have played the most by far.

New comers should find this a particularly good read, as it contains, all in one place, a lot of info and answers that you typically are looking for when you start getting into STGs : which controller is the best ? How do you pick your ship ? How do you practice ?

I have tried my best to go further and give more in-depth advice which I hope will be helpful to many players of various skill level. Practicing and performing methods, as well as dodging techniques, are covered in the document.

Included at the end, a little story of what it's like for me to be a shmup player. Succeeding or failing, travelling and meeting other players, special events and moments...

I want this to be as helpful, easy to read and understand as possible, so please, if you have read it and found that some topic deserves more elaboration, that something is missing, or that some paragraphs are confusing... Even typos or grammar mistakes ! Please write about it here, and I will see what I can do to make it better.

Hoping many people will find it useful !

Download : https://goo.gl/Fi2zE
Full Extent of the Jam.pdf, 28/11/2010 English version, 3.3MB, 44 pages

[Plasmo]

Awesomeness. Downloading it now.

[drboom]

Awesome - downloading now as well. Thanks for putting this together PROMETHUS!

[Bananamatic]

Awesome read...too bad that I completely hate the chaining system

I'll keep these things in mind once I find a scoring system that I like though.

[RNGmaster]

I am willing to service you sexually as payment for this. This is all I had hoped for and more.

[Lance Boyle]

What's this here...

By all means, avoid PCBs for practicing. They do not have either level
select or saved states and are no good for learning. I cannot stress enough how
important that is.

...

[Aguraki]

thx!

edit:about the MAME part,you are right about how helpfull MAME features are but you should also be clear on the fact this is piracy.
I don't buy games cause I'm really poor but I don't think you should encourage that;instead maybe add a little clause saying you should own the original or something?
It will look better in the eyes of cave at least(nor that I want to give them money,just I think it's a bit easy to say MAME is the best and if you don't trust me "you are an asshole";I don't know,maybe tone it down just a little bit?).

ps:haven't finished reading yet.

[EPS21]

What's this here...

By all means, avoid PCBs for practicing. They do not have either level
select or saved states and are no good for learning. I cannot stress enough how
important that is.

...

He means you shouldn't waste your time practicing on a PCB, when say you need to practice the 2nd loop only as the 1st would be trivial. But they're fine for doing full runs. Yeah it'll get a lot of rage from PCB purists...

Anyways really great writeup you made here, and your story at the end was very interesting. Really quite something to see this game and the genre in general had such an impact on your life

[Kaiser]

The best part about this guide is that it contains universal tips not just for DDP but literally every competitive arcade game. Even beat-em'ups. It's SERIOUSLY worth a read and if you're observant enough, you'll find the strategies you need, to win. Too bad I don't have time for Knights of the Round right now due school. I would dare to do what prom did to DDP, to crush this one

[PROMETHEUS]

Thank you guys for your feedback. It's very nice to see interest when you've worked on something like this ! Positive feedback is very pleasant to read, and negative is useful !

thx!

edit:about the MAME part,you are right about how helpfull MAME features are but you should also be clear on the fact this is piracy.
I don't buy games cause I'm really poor but I don't think you should encourage that;instead maybe add a little clause saying you should own the original or something?

Mmmh I may add a paragraph about that indeed. I don't think, in the case of DDP, that you should "buy the original" when you live in europe or america, because Cave simply never provided DDP for us. I don't think you should feel guilty of not buying a japanese console port that you won't use because it's inferior anyway, and much less a PCB, as it was never meant to be bought by private individuals and is too expensive.

In the case of DDP, all that MAME does is benefit Cave by broadly advertising their brand and the danmaku genre to a lot of people who would never have heard of them otherwise !

(nor that I want to give them money,just I think it's a bit easy to say MAME is the best and if you don't trust me "you are an asshole";I don't know,maybe tone it down just a little bit?).

ps:haven't finished reading yet.

Eheh, that one was meant to be 80% humour, 20% mean. Tough love if you will ! If it sounds too offensive instead of funny I should tone it down a bit yeah.

Anyway, totally useful feedback, thank you Aguraki.

Anyways really great writeup you made here, and your story at the end was very interesting. Really quite something to see this game and the genre in general had such an impact on your life

Good to see you found it interesting. I wrote it hoping some players will find it inspirational. I think newcomers would like to read this the most because it's hard to imagine how big STG can become for you, when you start.

[PROMETHEUS]

What's this here...

By all means, avoid PCBs for practicing. They do not have either level
select or saved states and are no good for learning. I cannot stress enough how
important that is.

...

Yup, you read it right !
As EPS21 said, I don't advise you against using PCBs to play your full runs, however.

[Despatche]

What's this here...

By all means, avoid PCBs for practicing. They do not have either level
select or saved states and are no good for learning. I cannot stress enough how
important that is.

...

That is completely correct. A large part of CAVE ports (in Japan, anyway) is to provide something to practice with for later play in an arcade. Hence why "getting the slowdown and patterns just right" is such a huge issue.

Also, I can't seem to access that forum, can you upload it anywhere else?

[PROMETHEUS]

Also, I can't seem to access that forum, can you upload it anywhere else?

Actually, I can't ! The reason why the link was down today is because the owner of the site it's now hosted at proposed me a deal in exchange for exclusivity of the guide.

Are you still having trouble ? Does it work for everyone else ?
It works perfectly for me.

[Bananamatic]

You actually made me give the chaining system another go

[PROMETHEUS]

You actually made me give the chaining system another go

That is very nice to read :)

[RNGmaster]

I really feel compelled to excel at Progear now. I've made a 1-bomb run through the first loop using savestates, and other than the final boss everything seems doable with practice. I've filled the keyboard with savestates just with one loop, making a state for each boss attack and stage segment (post-midboss to boss, for example). I'm going to keep a key of what corresponds to what area. This way, I can practice to the full extent of the jam. Thanks for inspiring me.

[marus]

I have to say that I thoroughly enjoyed reading your guide. I found that it did a good job of going over basic strategies and techniques to help newcomers while at the same time showing the mindset of a competetive player. The part I enjoyed the most was the story at the end - I always enjoy reading personal accounts of players, especially from ones who take their gaming so seriously. So yeah, a big thanks for taking the time to write this!

Do you have any plans to host the .pdf somewhere more visible/permanent? I'd hate to see this guide become forgotten after this thread falls into obscurity in a month, or for the mediafire link to die off.

Also just out of curiosity, do you play with any kind of special keyboard, or just some generic brand? I know I've seen some really high tech ones made specifically for gaming, including some where each key has their own individual microswitch.

[Lance Boyle]

Also just out of curiosity, do you play with any kind of special keyboard, or just some generic brand? I know I've seen some really high tech ones made specifically for gaming, including some where each key has their own individual microswitch.

He uses a Saitek Eclipse.

[Subterranean Sun]

Nice job Prometheus! Can't say I agree everything you said in this guide (I think panic bombing is never a good idea), but great work overall. I'm pretty sure that lots of people will find this guide very useful (Actually, I found it useful myself. The "lower speed on bottom line" trick is very handy, although it won't work on some games.)

(nor that I want to give them money,just I think it's a bit easy to say MAME is the best and if you don't trust me "you are an asshole";I don't know,maybe tone it down just a little bit?).

ps:haven't finished reading yet.

Eheh, that one was meant to be 80% humour, 20% mean. Tough love if you will ! If it sounds too offensive instead of funny I should tone it down a bit yeah.

Yes, I'm also a bit concerned about the "asshole" part, even though I know it was just a joke. If you ask me, I say it'd be better if you tone it down a bit. Then again, maybe I'm just been over-sensitive here...

[PROMETHEUS]

Also just out of curiosity, do you play with any kind of special keyboard, or just some generic brand? I know I've seen some really high tech ones made specifically for gaming, including some where each key has their own individual microswitch.

As Lance Boyle said, my keyboard is a saitek eclipse. If there's anything special in the wy that keyboard works, it's just that the keys are quite lightweight and fast to press / release. I remember to feel some slight improvement in DoDonPachi when I bought it.

Do you have any plans to host the .pdf somewhere more visible/permanent? I'd hate to see this guide become forgotten after this thread falls into obscurity in a month, or for the mediafire link to die off.

Well it's hosted on Google Docs now, which I guess must be pretty reliable, and I posted it on quite a few forums. One site has requested exclusivity of the guide, in exchange for which they will translate it themselves into French, and use their relationships with one or two French video game magazines to mention this work in them. They also put a news and a "slider" type of banner that links to it, on their homepage, and some friendly blogs and sites will also advertise it. I want this to stay available to anyone who needs it, just like you do, so I would like it to stay visible on every forum, but can't do that unless mods want to sticky it ! I'll figure out what I can do whenever it sinks to 2nd page I guess.

Nice job Prometheus! Can't say I agree everything you said in this guide (I think panic bombing is never a good idea), but great work overall. I'm pretty sure that lots of people will find this guide very useful :) (Actually, I found it useful myself. The "lower speed on bottom line" trick is very handy, although it won't work on some games.)

You don't like panic bombing ? How else can you deal with TLBs, though ? You certainly need that skill there, no matter your skill level !
I am very interested in thoughts from players of your skill level, too. Did most of the guide only talk about stuff you already knew ? Is the techniques section the only one you found truly useful ? If not, which other parts taught you something ? Do you think there are questions, uncertainties at your skill level that I could answer or help you with and add to this guide ?
By the way, if any other players of any skill level wants to answer similar questions, I'd be grateful.

(nor that I want to give them money,just I think it's a bit easy to say MAME is the best and if you don't trust me "you are an asshole";I don't know,maybe tone it down just a little bit?).

ps:haven't finished reading yet.

Eheh, that one was meant to be 80% humour, 20% mean. Tough love if you will ! If it sounds too offensive instead of funny I should tone it down a bit yeah.

Yes, I'm also a bit concerned about the "asshole" part, even though I know it was just a joke. If you ask me, I say it'd be better if you tone it down a bit. Then again, maybe I'm just been over-sensitive here...

Not sure what I'm gonna do with this yet, some people tell me they find it hilarious, some feel it's a bit too offensive... The more feedback I get, the better I can decide, so definitely thank you for your opinion !

[PROMETHEUS]

I really feel compelled to excel at Progear now. I've made a 1-bomb run through the first loop using savestates, and other than the final boss everything seems doable with practice. I've filled the keyboard with savestates just with one loop, making a state for each boss attack and stage segment (post-midboss to boss, for example). I'm going to keep a key of what corresponds to what area. This way, I can practice to the full extent of the jam. Thanks for inspiring me.

That's great, this is totally the way to go ! You are on the road to becoming great at Progear. Tell me how it progresses, and if you run into problems in your practice or performing that the guide doesn't answer to, you can post about it here and I may add something to address it in the guide.

[Subterranean Sun]

You don't like panic bombing ? How else can you deal with TLBs, though ? You certainly need that skill there, no matter your skill level !

I prefer calculated bombing even when it comes to TLB fights, although it's very hard to follow the designed method (and sometimes panic bombing is really the only way to stay alive).

Did most of the guide only talk about stuff you already knew ?

Errrrr, yes, I'm afraid.

Is the techniques section the only one you found truly useful ? If not, which other parts taught you something ?

Not really. You talked about a way to deal with distraction when shmupping, and it would be very useful if it works. The story at the end is also fun to read, too.

[PROMETHEUS]

Okay, thank you for your answers. Again, if you think of anything about which you'd like to hear another experienced player's views, and that isn't in the guide, please tell me ! It'd be nice if I can make it as complete as possible, and if more experienced players could substantially benefit from it as well.

[marus]

As Lance Boyle said, my keyboard is a saitek eclipse. If there's anything special in the wy that keyboard works, it's just that the keys are quite lightweight and fast to press / release. I remember to feel some slight improvement in DoDonPachi when I bought it.

That's funny, I actually have the same keyboard, although I just bought it because of the flashy lights I've also grown to like the lightweight feel to it though, even though I don't do a lot of PC gaming.

Not sure what I'm gonna do with this yet, some people tell me they find it hilarious, some feel it's a bit too offensive... The more feedback I get, the better I can decide, so definitely thank you for your opinion!

I didn't find it offensive, but it did seem out of place. Up until then the whole paper was so serious, so it took a second to register that it was a joke.
While we're on that topic:

Absolutely important if you're going for a world record, not so much if you are not.
By the way, I hope you are not.

Was that more trolling, or were you being serious? I just found it funny that you were making this guide to help people get better, but at the same time advising them not to aim for the top.

Did most of the guide only talk about stuff you already knew?

Yes, although it was nice to see them spelled out so clearly. For example, I never really thought much about specific dodging techniques until recently when I started getting some of my friends into shmups, and watched what kind of movement they used.
Actually, I'm thinking of showing this guide to them the next time we play - even though they don't play shmups that much, I think they would enjoy reading it.

Is the techniques section the only one you found truly useful? If not, which other parts taught you something?

I thought the section about setting up a training routine to contain a lot of useful information as well. And like I said earlier, I liked the story at the end. I think a lot of players don't understand the competitive spirit or what kind of determination it takes to become the best at something, which is why I enjoyed reading about your rivalries and the struggles you had later on.

About my skill level, I'd say I'm decent but nothing special. This and this score are probably the most indicative of my level right now.

[PROMETHEUS]

Thank you marus, very valuable feedback here. I will take your thoughts into account to modify the guide, which I will probably do before christmas. A french version will also be available by then.

A lot of readers have told me they liked reading the story at the end. I actually wrote it almost on a whim and thought of removing it from the document a few times, thinking only the least experienced players would like to read it, but it seems that's not the case.

[CStarFlare]

Was that more trolling, or were you being serious? I just found it funny that you were making this guide to help people get better, but at the same time advising them not to aim for the top.

It has kind of a joking tone, but I think it's reasonable advice. Goals are great if they're attainable; if not they're more likely to make you quit than make you succeed. A WR goal is something to attempt when you are beyond needing a guide for general shmupping advice.

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=23582

[Schrodinger's cat]

Great guide! Apparently I was doing the bullet herding technique wrong skipping steps 7 through 9 this entire time, so it's good to know that you create a larger angle of bullets when you move closer to enemies. Sometimes moving away and back to your original position only horizontally doesn't cut it when trying to make a gap to dodge through. That explains why I always get my ass kicked when I don't bomb during the second half of DDP stage 5.

I especially liked the section about performing and the story at the end. It makes me want to keep going with Futari Maniac instead of retiring.

[RNGmaster]

Just fired up a Kraken savestate on a whim. Perfect run, even though generally getting the easier attacks helped a lot. Forgot to record.

facepalm.jpg

Then I managed a Stage 3 perfect on the 2nd attempt. Again, no recording. Great scoring and managed to survive Jimchuck's last attack, despite the walling gods tagging my every step.

[PROMETHEUS]

Absolutely important if you're going for a world record, not so much if you are not.
By the way, I hope you are not.

Was that more trolling, or were you being serious? I just found it funny that you were making this guide to help people get better, but at the same time advising them not to aim for the top.

Oh yes I was serious there, although I wrote it with kind of a joking tone. I explained why later in the document. And it's like CStarFlare said. I think attempting for a WR will, obviously, push your limits to the max, but it will also waste a lot of time with endless tries, if you are ever able to gather enough theory in saved states to beat it. It will waste so much time (replaying easy levels a million times without improving your skills...), that I recommend you use those hundreds, or thousands additional hours of playing to do something else. Just my opinion of course.

[marus]

Okay, that's fair advice - although I assume anyone who's serious enough to go for a WR won't see it as wasted time. It just depends on what you want to do in life, as well as what you perceive as attainable.