Guwange 360

[defected78]

I hate this thread now and I started it

[Elixir]

TThe 360 Arrange mode is retarded as hell.

You know how bullets slow down when the Shikigami is near them in the regular mode? In 360 Arrange, ALL the bullets are slowed down ALL the time.

Simply kill one enemy and ALL the bullets are cancelled.

What is the point of this post? That you think the mode is "retarded as hell" because it plays differently to the other modes? By that definition, all of these are also retarded:

"Simply kill ONE orange enemy, and all of the bullets turn into chips" - Ketsui X-mode
"Simply kill ONE specific enemy, and all of the bullets turn into gold" - Futari
"Simply kill ONE enemy, and all bullets turn into gold" - Galuda 2 BL
"Simply absorb bullets" - Cave

Etcetera and so on.

[bcass]

If he thinks it's so retarded, let's have a look at his best score.

[gs68]

Hey, bullet cancelling owns.

[Lance Boyle]

What is the point of this post?

What is the point of rudely asking for clarification on a post you've deemed pointless?

That you think the mode is "retarded as hell" because it plays differently to the other modes?

That isn't what I said at all, nor what any sensible person would infer from what I was saying unless they entirely missed the point.

I have not played any of the modes / games you've listed, and

By that definition, all of these are also retarded:

By the definition I NEVER STATED NOR IMPLIED.

360 Arrange Mode in Guwange is retarded because it bastardizes the scoring to a point beyond recognition as you'd now have to either be a borderline idiot or go out of your way to break your chain with any frequency since GOLD IS FALLING CONSTANTLY, you now move at regular speed when your Shikigami is summoned thus making the main shot almost completely irrelevant. No really, I've seen the highest-scoring replay on the Leaderboards. All the bullets move at half speed perpetually and I didn't notice any increase in bullet density to compensate for this. The balance is fucked.

If they included a 2P mode for 360 Arrange, neither player would have to move the thumbsticks virtually at all to survive the first three stages.

If he thinks it's so retarded, let's have a look at his best score.

I'd let you, but, being a borderline idiot myself it's nothing to brag about.

[Elixir]

You think the game's retarded because you can survive easily, so by definition, other Arrange modes by the same company are also retarded.

Maybe if you played them, you'd find one you like, instead of discrediting the scheme due to level of difficulty.

There isn't anything wrong with 360 mode. It's score based, and encourages you to wait until there's a whole bunch of bullets before picking off enemies to cancel them. But thanks for telling us you don't like it, I guess?

[evil_ash_xero]

Hearing that the DFK port has 4:3 makes me a bit more hopeful they'll fix this port.

[Lance Boyle]

You think the game's retarded because you can survive easily, so by definition, other Arrange modes by the same company are also retarded.

Why are you bringing up other Arrange modes by the same company? I wasn't talking about them.

Maybe if you played them, you'd find one you like, instead of discrediting the scheme due to level of difficulty.

Again, I'm not talking about "them", I'm talking about THIS SPECIFIC MODE particular to THIS SPECIFIC GAME. If another game managed to pull of something similar to Guwange's 360 Arrange well, that's great! Irrelevant, but great!

There isn't anything wrong with 360 mode.

360 Arrange Mode in Guwange is retarded because it bastardizes the scoring to a point beyond recognition as you'd now have to either be a borderline idiot or go out of your way to break your chain with any frequency since GOLD IS FALLING CONSTANTLY, you now move at regular speed when your Shikigami is summoned thus making the main shot almost completely irrelevant. No really, I've seen the highest-scoring replay on the Leaderboards. All the bullets move at half speed perpetually and I didn't notice any increase in bullet density to compensate for this. The balance is fucked.

It's score based

Like nearly all STGs ever made.

and encourages you to wait until there's a whole bunch of bullets before picking off enemies to cancel them

See, that's the entirety of 360 Arrange's scoring system. The depth begins and ends there. Compare this to the complexity of Guwange's ORIGINAL scoring system and the skill required to excel at it, and you might see why I call 360 Arrange "retarded".

Simply put: it is dumbed down.

[cools]

It's a game. There are three modes to play. Don't play the ones you don't enjoy.

[Paradigm]

This is the Guwange 360 thread. In the Shmups chat forum. He's allowed to talk about the things he doesn't like.

[Lance Boyle]

This is the Guwange 360 thread. In the Shmups chat forum. He's allowed to talk about the things he doesn't like.

I'm surprised I'm being criticized for criticizing something that DOESN'T, after over ten pages on the subject, have to do with the size of the window the game is played in

Also, the screen config menu's controls don't get rotated when you're in TATE, so moving around all those auxiliary screens for MAXIMUM VISUAL FEEDBACK will be a real pain in the ass.

[Elixir]

Why are you bringing up other Arrange modes by the same company? I wasn't talking about them.

Because you're acting like this is some sort of new, problematic thing that's come to light with Guwange's 360 mode. It isn't. It's been around for years and exists in a bunch of other games.

Again, I'm not talking about "them", I'm talking about THIS SPECIFIC MODE particular to THIS SPECIFIC GAME. If another game managed to pull of something similar to Guwange's 360 Arrange well, that's great! Irrelevant, but great!

-discrediting the scheme due to level of difficulty-

There isn't anything wrong with 360 mode.

360 Arrange Mode in Guwange is retarded because it bastardizes the scoring to a point beyond recognition as you'd now have to either be a borderline idiot or go out of your way to break your chain with any frequency since GOLD IS FALLING CONSTANTLY, you now move at regular speed when your Shikigami is summoned thus making the main shot almost completely irrelevant. No really, I've seen the highest-scoring replay on the Leaderboards. All the bullets move at half speed perpetually and I didn't notice any increase in bullet density to compensate for this. The balance is fucked.

-discrediting the scheme due to level of difficulty-

Like nearly all STGs ever made.

How would you know, what with not having played the large majority of them? Or, by chance, did you just happen to coincidentally skip the ones that have bullet cancelling in them too, unintentionally?

See, that's the entirety of 360 Arrange's scoring system. The depth begins and ends there. Compare this to the complexity of Guwange's ORIGINAL scoring system and the skill required to excel at it, and you might see why I call 360 Arrange "retarded".

So play the provided Original or Blue modes?

[Lance Boyle]

How would you know, what with not having played the large majority of them?

I've admitted to not playing the THREE specific shmups you mentioned and you now say I haven't played "the large majority of them". Ketsui, Futari, and Galuda II BL are not "the large majority" of shooting games.

Is it not a common fact that the ultimate goal of nearly every shooting game - the ultimate measure of one's skill - is the score? Therefore calling a particular shmup score-based is redundant and stupid.

Again, I'm not talking about "them", I'm talking about THIS SPECIFIC MODE particular to THIS SPECIFIC GAME. If another game managed to pull of something similar to Guwange's 360 Arrange well, that's great! Irrelevant, but great!

-discrediting the scheme due to level of difficulty-

That line makes no sense in that context. What I said there has nothing to do with difficulty, or even the mode itself.

Why do you insist on calling it a scheme? It is a MODE, not a scheme. I have never heard the word scheme used in that context and it sounds utterly nonsensical when used to describe a MODE.

-discrediting the scheme due to level of difficulty-

Actually if you read the paragraph you quoted what I said has little to do with the mode's difficulty and everything to do with the mode's scoring, both of which, coincidentally, are broken for the reasons I demonstrated.

Or, by chance, did you just happen to coincidentally skip the ones that have bullet cancelling in them too, unintentionally?

The ones that have bullet cancelling? Oh, you mean like GUWANGE? The game I've been talking about THIS ENTIRE TIME?

By chance? Just happen to? Coincidentally? Unintentionally? Any more qualifiers you want to throw in there?

So play the provided Original or Blue modes?

Thank you, I never would have thought of that. I don't see how which mode I choose to play has any relevance to the quality of the 360 Arrange mode which I thought we were originally arguing about, but, whatever, helpful advice is always appreciated.

[Elixir]

This isn't as complicated as it seems.

You dislike the mode because, in your opinion, you think it's broken.

You think that the mode is poor because it's easy ("If they included a 2P mode for 360 Arrange, neither player would have to move the thumbsticks virtually at all to survive the first three stages") while ignoring the fact that it's score based, and not played for survival.

Though you can't provide any high scores of your own (you don't have any), you think high scores are a measure of one's skill (wrong/disheartening to survival-based shmup players).

If you support this claim of scores being indicative of skill, you shouldn't have issues with this mode.

In fact,

You should have issues with Original mode instead, because of the spidercat boss milking. This would be appropriately considered "broken". However, Blue mode fixes these issues.

Moreover,

You don't understand how Guwange 360 Arrange actually works.

You think that the mode is bad because you can't break your chain, when in actual fact, the point of the score-based mode is not only to maintain your counter throughout (not unlike other modes), but to get it as high as possible; by letting enemies produce bullets and eliminating them periodically in order to maximize the most gold out of enemies present. You think that the autofire normal shot is useless, when in actual fact it isn't, as gold won't drop from certain enemies/bosses unless you're shooting them directly and not completely reliant on your shinigami.

But this concept is beyond you; you just think the 360 Arrange mode's bad because it's easy.

So yes. I'm stupidly and retardedly calling Guwange 360 Arrange "score-based" because it actually is, while you point out that it's retarded because it's easy and go on to explain the basics of how the mode works. Manipulating what I've said (WHY DID I SAY SCHEME WHICH IS VERY CLOSELY RELATED TO THE ORIGNAL SOURCE I SHOULD HAVE SAID MODE ARGH) doesn't cover up the fact that you don't really know what you're talking about.

[emphatic]

On another note, people like to crap all over ESPGALUDA II's excellent Omake! mode for being "impossibly easy", but you don't see many high scores for that either. CAVE has been moving away from being "just hard" to "hard to score" and this is a very hard concept to grasp for many n00bs, especially when they come from "classic shmups".

[Some-Mist]

I don't post here at all - mainly lurk - but this quote made me LOL:

360 Arrange Mode in Guwange is retarded because it bastardizes the scoring to a point beyond recognition as you'd now have to either be a borderline idiot or go out of your way to break your chain with any frequency since GOLD IS FALLING CONSTANTLY, you now move at regular speed when your Shikigami is summoned thus making the main shot almost completely irrelevant. No really, I've seen the highest-scoring replay on the Leaderboards. All the bullets move at half speed perpetually and I didn't notice any increase in bullet density to compensate for this. The balance is fucked.

Why do you believe the 'balance is fucked'? Arrange mode has always been known to have an easier balance due to it being purely based on score. Scoring in arrange mode isn't supposed to be comparable to the original mode (why you think it's 'bastardized' is beyond me), and I don't see why 'gold falling constantly' is an issue?

It's the first time arrange mode has been available in guwange. There's nothing to compare it to with the exception of other cave developed games with arrange modes such as those listed (futari + espgaluda II) in which the mode is purposely made easier (to survive + score) - not only in guwange, but futari and galuda as well.

I've admitted to not playing the THREE specific shmups you mentioned and you now say I haven't played "the large majority of them". Ketsui, Futari, and Galuda II BL are not "the large majority" of shooting games.

While they aren't a 'large majority of them' they are some of the most important games in the genre IMO. Especially when you're trying to argue that the balance in Guwange arrange mode is fucked yet can't provide any other cave arrange modes to support your argument. If you do, it may help your argument - although I doubt it.

[roker]

360 mode is a cool chill mode

I should have 1cc'd it by now, but I'm trying to prolong the amount of pleasure I can get from this port.

[Udderdude]

On another note, people like to crap all over ESPGALUDA II's excellent Omake! mode for being "impossibly easy", but you don't see many high scores for that either. CAVE has been moving away from being "just hard" to "hard to score" and this is a very hard concept to grasp for many n00bs, especially when they come from "classic shmups".

It's an interesting direction, but it still only appeals to extreme score hunters IMO. I think the best players will continue to play modes that are hard to survive and score.

I think 360 mode could have used a massive rank boost if you score well, but then again, nothing can even come near your character anyway, so it would just end up adding more score. It would have been more interesting to add a time limit to how long you can have your shikigami out, so you can't just hold down the button and ez-win.

[clp]

On another note, people like to crap all over ESPGALUDA II's excellent Omake! mode for being "impossibly easy", but you don't see many high scores for that either. CAVE has been moving away from being "just hard" to "hard to score" and this is a very hard concept to grasp for many n00bs, especially when they come from "classic shmups".

You mean like milestone games have been since they started yet always get crapped on .

[roker]

On another note, people like to crap all over ESPGALUDA II's excellent Omake! mode for being "impossibly easy", but you don't see many high scores for that either. CAVE has been moving away from being "just hard" to "hard to score" and this is a very hard concept to grasp for many n00bs, especially when they come from "classic shmups".

Some people can't be pleased.

I like chill modes.

Sit back, play a game and have fun.

That's all there is to it.

[sh00g]

NO FUN ALLOWED

[Aliquantic]

On another note, people like to crap all over ESPGALUDA II's excellent Omake! mode for being "impossibly easy", but you don't see many high scores for that either. CAVE has been moving away from being "just hard" to "hard to score" and this is a very hard concept to grasp for many n00bs, especially when they come from "classic shmups".

It probably doesn't help that Omake lacks an online leaderboard too and replays... I hear there are some very tricky techniques in that one, but it's very hard to study a mode that doesn't have any good video. Guwange Arrange 360 does seem to appeal to some players if the leaderboards are any indication, though... and for people who think it's too easy, I'd be delighted to see your 200+ million scores.

[roker]

I hate this thread now and I started it

I'm starting to think there's as many people complaining about this thread as there are complainers.

[8 1/2]

Finally broke through into stage 6 in Arcade mode on a credit last night. Learning stage 6 seems like it's equal to, perhaps even greater, than learning the first five stages. Usually when I break into the last stage of a game it means the 1CC isn't far away, but with Guwange it feels like I'm just getting started. I was hoping to put this one in the bag before DFK arrives, but that may not happen now.

[chempop]

I'm right there with you 8 1/2, Stage 6 is just nuts. There are a couple health items though, I think when the spiders arrive up top, and the second section of the bosses first form... crap maybe that's just in Blue Mode I'm not sure. I think if I stock 5 bombs and full life at the beginning of that stage I may have a shot, but that's going to take serious practice.

[Lance Boyle]

You think that the mode is bad because you can't break your chain

This is impossible. I quit.

[Shelcoof]

Sorry folks if this has been already asked but does anyone know how to increase the display size? Can't I zoom and increase the size of the screen like I can with all other cave ports?

This has been really frustrating so far, very difficult to play on such a small screen.

Thanks

[chempop]

Dude half this thread is people (including me) bitching about exactly that. Seems it was either overlooked because cave programed it with 16:9 HD in mind, or they don't recognize the fact that their loyal user base plays on Tate 4:3 CRT. If you backtrack in this topic you will find both a Facebook link and email address to express your sorrow directly to Cave.

[Lance Boyle]

Sorry folks if this has been already asked but does anyone know how to increase the display size? Can't I zoom and increase the size of the screen like I can with all other cave ports?

This has been really frustrating so far, very difficult to play on such a small screen.

Thanks

It's buried under six or seven menus.

Dude half this thread is people (including me) bitching about exactly that. Seems it was either overlooked because cave programed it with 16:9 HD in mind, or they don't recognize the fact that their loyal user base plays on Tate 4:3 CRT. If you backtrack in this topic you will find both a Facebook link and email address to express your sorrow directly to Cave.

He's not referring to the 4:3 issue, he's referring to the menu where you can adjust the screen settings / rotate / assign auxiallary screens etc.

If I had the Xbox 360 with me right now I'd walk you through it but you can probably find it yourself in about five minutes or less.

EDIT: Here it is

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DV0zxEmjFaE

[RNGmaster]

You think that the mode is bad because you can't break your chain

This is impossible. I quit.

Good. We don't need people around here who don't understand that they're never going to convince others, and keep on churning out rebuttal after rebuttal while the rest us are actually making constructive conversation.

Speaking of which, I think there are some health items (small size) that appear for every cart you shoot down (in the section where they move from top left to bottom right). They only appear if you do not destroy the carts by bombing. Doing so can be difficult, so I suggest using the handy save feature to learn how to take them down w/o getting hit.