Deathsmiles PAL release (DATED: Feb 18th)

[TrevHead (TVR)]

I wonder just how aware Cave are that the slowdown changes are hated by fans? maybe theyll take note and make the nesecary changes (still think its only a pipe dream though)

Best thing Cave and the publisher could do is make the PAL version a perfect port PLUS region free that way they get to sell a 2nd copy to US shmup nuts or even a third copy for those who have both U and J versions lol. (Plus release a LE with a face plate for the slim)

[PsychoGun]

I wonder just how aware Cave are that the slowdown changes are hated by fans? maybe theyll take note and make the nesecary changes (still think its only a pipe dream though)

I'm sure they are oblivious, even though I know Aksys has contacted them about it.

Even if they knew, they are still a Japanese company and they think like a Japanese company does (which isn't much at all) and I don't think they'd care what barbarian US gamers think.

You have to ask yourself why they did this in the first place, and that is your answer for if they'd care we hated it or not. I don't think they would.

[drauch]

Wait, so what's the deal with this slowdown issue? I am an American who is poor as balls who will never be able to afford an expensive PCB in his life. I bought Deathsmiles here when it was released for American consoles, and while I absolutely love it, I am completely oblivious to the earlier releases. Was this a Cave decision, or an AKSYS choice?

[drunkninja24]

Wait, so what's the deal with this slowdown issue? I am an American who is poor as balls who will never be able to afford an expensive PCB in his life. I bought Deathsmiles here when it was released for American consoles, and while I absolutely love it, I am completely oblivious to the earlier releases. Was this a Cave decision, or an AKSYS choice?

It was Cave. Aksys mentioned it on their forums:

http://www.aksysgames.com/forums/topic/732

All right, I have a response from Cave. Pardon the literal translation:

Cave wanted to fix some unintended slowdown in the original, which compromised the level of difficulty in those sections. They upgraded the production environment of the graphics engine, so the U.S. version handles the graphic assets better. They're now working as originally intended, so things will be more difficult.
Hope that makes sense.

Of course, I'm not too bothered by it, but I can see why people would be.

[PsychoGun]

Wait, so what's the deal with this slowdown issue? I am an American who is poor as balls who will never be able to afford an expensive PCB in his life. I bought Deathsmiles here when it was released for American consoles, and while I absolutely love it, I am completely oblivious to the earlier releases. Was this a Cave decision, or an AKSYS choice?

Cave sped up all modes of the US version by removing slowdown.

Aksys wasn't informed before they released it. Cave did it.

I have both versions, and have come to peace with it, as my scores are about the same in both versions. You just have to get used to the slightly quicker timing in the US one. But if it's the only version you own, you're fine. Just stick to the arcade modes and avoid the 360 modes.

The import is slightly easier to do certain things in, like complete the game on death mode (last boss especially), or milk more points on the volcanoes etc. Obviously is bullets are moving towards you slower, it gives you more time to react.

I beat the US version on death mode, and it was much harder IMO than the import. I don't wanna try doing it again.

[E. Randy Dupre]

I wonder just how aware Cave are that the slowdown changes are hated by fans? maybe theyll take note and make the nesecary changes (still think its only a pipe dream though)

I'm sure they are oblivious, even though I know Aksys has contacted them about it.

Even if they knew, they are still a Japanese company and they think like a Japanese company does (which isn't much at all) and I don't think they'd care what barbarian US gamers think.

You have to ask yourself why they did this in the first place, and that is your answer for if they'd care we hated it or not. I don't think they would.

You couldn't have made less sense with that post if you'd tried. "They changed it because they didn't care what anybody thought about the changes". Really?

[TrevHead (TVR)]

I think hes going on about the reason why Cave changed the slowdown, which is to stop Mr average gamer from thinking the games broken everytime the slowdown kicks in. Hes saying that Cave know fans dont like it but they dont care, Or atleast care enough to give the player a choice of which slowdown he wants, If X.X games can add a wait option to his freeware shmups why cant they?

[Nick420]

but is missing some of the original slowdown.

Ugh why do people do this well its better then nothing. Even though in many ways its not Arcade perfect.

Yeah dont get why they would do this. Ah that sucks. Why can they not just leave it alone..sigh

lol its still great news tho

[TrevHead (TVR)]

Did Cave tinker with the jap rerelease? If the answer is no then as ive just said, it was changed for the mainsteam us market. Since the mainstream gamer isnt going to know that slowdown in a shmup is by design and wll automatically think the game is broken and is gay.

[Thjodbjorn]

I've not been playing shmups with any sort of seriousness for very long, but how can removing unintended slowdown be a bad thing? Wouldn't that be making the game closer to what the director intended?

[PsychoGun]

I wonder just how aware Cave are that the slowdown changes are hated by fans? maybe theyll take note and make the nesecary changes (still think its only a pipe dream though)

I'm sure they are oblivious, even though I know Aksys has contacted them about it.

Even if they knew, they are still a Japanese company and they think like a Japanese company does (which isn't much at all) and I don't think they'd care what barbarian US gamers think.

You have to ask yourself why they did this in the first place, and that is your answer for if they'd care we hated it or not. I don't think they would.

You couldn't have made less sense with that post if you'd tried. "They changed it because they didn't care what anybody thought about the changes". Really?

Are you Japanese? That may explain why you didn't understand what I just said (sarcasm).

They sped the game up because Americans live life in the fast lane, we drink Rockstar and ride our Harleys 110mph with no helment, and shoot cans with our rifles right before the beef is done cooking at our BBQ. So it's obvious that the slower Japanese version just wouldn't do, so Cave in their infinite wisdom of all things pertaining to the American gamer, decided for us that it had to be different.

Or the intern forced to code the game got fucked up on some really good cocaine.

And either of those reasons is why they wouldn't care what we thought about it, hell, they didn't even ask the fucking company (Aksys) that paid money to license the game if they wanted them to change it. I know for a fact Aksys would have said no, you know why? Because they knew the type of people who would be preordering and buying it: the hardcore shooter fan. They aren't fucking stupid (like Cave) and would know before hand it would cause a shit storm.

A dick move by Cave if you ask me. And I won't be picking up anymore of their "localizations."

[Zeron]

They sped the game up because Americans live life in the fast lane, we drink Rockstar and ride our Harleys 110mph with no helment, and shoot cans with our rifles right before the beef is done cooking at our BBQ. ."

We europeans are very different from americans.

[spadgy]

I've not been playing shmups with any sort of seriousness for very long, but how can removing unintended slowdown be a bad thing? Wouldn't that be making the game closer to what the director intended?

In many modern shooters, it's not strictly unintended.

I think Cave's motivation with regard to removing the slowdown was a fear that the Western press (and consumers) might label the game as broken/unfinished/glitchy if it had slowdown.

There's a lot of misunderstanding in the West about slowdown's role. Hell; I'm confused.

[Thjodbjorn]

I thought I had read that the intentional slowdown was left in, but that the unintended slowdown was taken out. I am misteken in this then, I take it?

[dan76]

Here's the a quote from spadgy's interview with Cave (about ESP II on the iphone) regarding the issue of slowdown.

"The inclusion of ‘slow-down’ in your games, where the game’s speed drops in an apparent reaction to hardware capability, is now something almost unique to shmups. Is that something you simulate, and if so, why do you include it?


Cave’s games certainly have their difficult side, wherein there are situations where there are a lot of bullets on-screen. In these situations, we will see slow-down occur where the game speed drops and it is easier to find a route through the bullet patterns.

However it’s not just these situations, nor conveying the sense of dilemma when you have been pushed into the corner while the game speed has dropped, and although this is a simulated feeling, the player experiences a certain sense of ‘awakening’ and this situation can transform into something satisfying. Difficult portions are not difficult for difficulty’s sake. The meaning of slow-down in bullet heaven shooters is accentuating the difficulty of the game, and containing this potential for difficult situations to become enjoyable.

Most of Cave titles experience slowdown from the hardware aspect, but there are some of our games which emulate this via software. With the iPhone version of the game, we have not ‘replicated’ the slow-down of the arcade version. If slow-down is occurring, it is literally slowing down on the hardware.

The reason that we did not replicate slow-down with Espgaluda II is (schedule reasons were big, but…) the controls (interface) were originally designed for another type of hardware, so instead of a ‘complete port’ we aimed for something that would draw out a fun control method to complement the iPhone interface."


So, it's intentional - if it happens it's part of the game.
I'm guessing that they don't think it's something many western gamers would like in DS, so they took it out - which is a stupid decision. It's screwed up - it's great that it's getting a release, but if it sells well it's sending the wrong message to cave (I think the ideal is region free Jap releases, not crap localized ones).

[PsychoGun]

I thought I had read that the intentional slowdown was left in, but that the unintended slowdown was taken out. I am misteken in this then, I take it?

That was Cave's "PR."

If any shit was unintentional why did it make it to the 360 release? You do realize they have to "emulate" the slowdown of the PCB on the 360, so it is definitely intentional when it's ported.

And why did it make it to the platinum hits version that came out months before the US one did?

Cave could have just used the NA build for the Japanese platinum hits and "helped" the Japanese gamers out like they did with us.

The bottom line is it was a horse shit excuse.

[spadgy]

Ah - that interview. A great thing to do, but I do kick myself a little; I wish I got more out of them. I wish I were able to ask them more about arcade stuff!

Glad its of use sometimes at least!

[brentsg]

They sped the game up because Americans live life in the fast lane, we drink Rockstar and ride our Harleys 110mph with no helment, and shoot cans with our rifles right before the beef is done cooking at our BBQ. ."

We europeans are very different from americans.

We aren't all like that. I have my BBQ in a crock pot today, and I'm trying not to shoot anything.

[TrevHead (TVR)]

The yanks "love" their horses and bulls and we shag sheep so were not so different

[Skykid]

The reason that we did not replicate slow-down with Espgaluda II is (schedule reasons were big, but…) the controls (interface) were originally designed for another type of hardware, so instead of a ‘complete port’ we aimed for something that would draw out a fun control method to complement the iPhone interface."

It makes no difference with the Esp2 iphone port because they slowed down the bullets and simplified nearly all the patterns - it doesn't need any slowdown!

[Pulsewidth]

Intentional or not, I hate slowdown. It's the worst aspect of modern STGs but I'm forced to accept it so my scores can be compared to other players. If Cave is trying to change this I'm all for it.

[Skykid]

Yeah - I've got a contact or two at Rising star, and it is them. I'm chasing 100% confirmation now. Should also mean I get access to some lovely hi-res press assets for us (that might not be available elsewhere) via Gamespress.

I'm on the lookout for this.

[drunkninja24]

Intentional or not, I hate slowdown. It's the worst aspect of modern STGs but I'm forced to accept it so my scores can be compared to other players. If Cave is trying to change this I'm all for it.

I'd much rather have the ability to actually be able to navigate dense bullet patterns.

[Thjodbjorn]

I rather like slowdown sometimes. It does give a certain dramatic tension that I think I'd miss if it were completely removed.

[PsychoGun]

Intentional or not, I hate slowdown. It's the worst aspect of modern STGs but I'm forced to accept it so my scores can be compared to other players. If Cave is trying to change this I'm all for it.

Well aren't you brimming with testosterone.

Do you chew glass too? Mr. Mantastic.

[TrevHead (TVR)]

Like i said all shmup developers need to do is have the slowdown on as default but include the option of turning it off in the options menu. Everybodys happy then and Cave dont need to think up anymore BS excuses.

Still as we all know things are never are so easy in the world of Japanese exported video games, We are thankfull that were getting the game at all even if its sometimes butchered beyond all recognition.

I personally like slowdown in danmaku as I suck and need all the help i can get. Still theres nothing worse then badly done jerky slowdown like that of X.X games slowdown (i lost count of how many times ive died when the game suddenly changes from slow to normal speed)

[spadgy]

In a couple of weeks I'm (if I'm not too busy) visiting publisher Rising star to play the PAL version of Deathsmiles, so I'll let you know. I also just fired a load of questions of to Cave (via a PR company and translator), so soon (probably more than a couple of weeks though - it was very slow last time) I should have more to reveal... The 'interview' was for MCV, so it will all be about Cave's view of the potential of the Western market, and next to nothing about arcade stuff, but there might be something to satisfy us nerds.

The mag I work for has a sister publication called MCV (an industry mag for retailers and publishers) - next week's issue should have a modestly sized Deathsmiles piece - the guys are on print deadline right now so too busy for me to ask about the details, but hopefully when that comes out there will be something new for us desperate PAL gamers.

[Hibachi]

Thanks for the heads up Spadgy.

I remember all the remarks made at the slowdown in Ikaruga when it was released and that proves to me that some people don't get it.

Particularly when the only slowdown took place when the bosses blew up which looks like it was done in software for effect.

[spadgy]

I'm certainly expecting a slowdown free build, but we'll see...

[Zeron]

I'm certainly expecting a slowdown free build, but we'll see...

Sure am hoping for slowdowns if not then I will just import the japanese platinum Death Smiles.