Japanese gaming is dead

[neorichieb1971]

Dcharlie,

If you take RE1 as an example and put those 10 million polygons into mood, atmospherics, animations and lighting without the guns blazing of part 4/5 then you would have something worth playing. Nobody made a game like that with todays tech because the designers think its retro already. But to me, i'd rather play a RE1 again with todays tech than a RE6 that plays like 5. I'm not saying go back to tank controls. Just the idea of playing a game with a pistol, a haunting theme and a will to survive and solve the mystery. The story and suspense is then the selling factor which will make the game memorable. Games that rely purely on action are hardly memorable because hardware makes the next iteration better.

If the companies keep trying to 1up the last game with more action, more monsters.. it does become as you say "stale".

If you look at any game that sells for high prices in the action adventure category you will see Silent hill is up there. Because the mood has never been revisited or bettered since. Its very rare I feel part of the game anymore. I feel more like a bull in a china shop, or Arnie in commando. I agree the game should have fast action moments, but only in small doses.

The only reason I say these things is because there is a limit to what you can do technically, but not a limit to what you can do creatively.

Ian Bell once said "Once you've simulated an enviroment in which it'll be fun to exist, you can just let the player exist and it'll be fun". But what he didn't say was "if your in that fun environment for 6 years, it will get stale and you'll get bored". Unfortunately devs keep churning out reruns and remakes instead of moving on. Which is ok as a business because new punters are always out there. But for me, Its like watching Star Wars for the 26th time.

FF 13 or 14 obviously fails at this stage. Crap story, crap game. The mechanics haven't changed over the years that much, a turn based RPG is a turned based RPG. Music is something that needs to be learned in a game also. It is used too generically most of the time. Rez is one awesome game that relies on its beats. I'd lap that shit up again and again. In the first 2 iterations of Tekken, I absolutely loved the music in those games. Yoshimitsu's forest stage music in part 2 still gives me goose bumps today. Then they went techno and the love was lost forever. I'd love to see the PS3 churn some really atmospheric stuff out and stop faffing around with head shot kills and big monsters.

I would play portal if it was on PS3. I'm anti microsoft.. I'll pick up the sequel.

[mesh control]

I would play portal if it was on PS3. I'm anti microsoft.. I'll pick up the sequel.

uhhhh.....The Orange Box?

[Rob]

Just the idea of playing a game with a pistol, a haunting theme and a will to survive and solve the mystery. The story and suspense is then the selling factor which will make the game memorable.

Alan Wake was good.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Games that rely purely on action are hardly memorable because hardware makes the next iteration better.

Who needs shmups in this day and age?

[Drum]

neorichieb1971

[BIL]

If you look at any game that sells for high prices in the action adventure category you will see Silent hill is up there. Because the mood has never been revisited or bettered since.

It was revisited in Silent Hill 2, which relied more on mood and suspense than the original, despite having vastly better graphics.

It's the talent behind the polygons that matters, however many a game has at its disposal. In Silent Hill's case that talent has long since left the building. Origins and Homecoming would've still been meh and crap, respectively, had they come out in the PS1 era.

[neorichieb1971]

Correct. I don't disagree there. There seems to be those teams who start a new I.P and there seems to be those other teams who do nothing but use previous ideas or I.P's. I loved turok 1 from Iguana, I thought Tomb Raider 1 was good.. All these I.P's were left abandoned by the originators due to fear of never leaving the franchise.

When it comes to story driven games, its always the original game which is remembered the most. Well most of the time. Which is why its a good idea to get more story driven content out there in the market.

[BulletMagnet]

Alan Wake was good.

I'm curious as to whether that post was by Snarky Rob or Straightforward Rob, since I'm rather interested in the game (despite its "style" differing from what I usually play) but have yet to try it...

[Rob]

I really liked it. Any snark would be in recommending an Xbox xclusive to neorichie.

[E. Randy Dupre]

Correct. I don't disagree there. There seems to be those teams who start a new I.P and there seems to be those other teams who do nothing but use previous ideas or I.P's. I loved turok 1 from Iguana, I thought Tomb Raider 1 was good.. All these I.P's were left abandoned by the originators due to fear of never leaving the franchise.

Nope. The Tomb Raider franchise was forcibly removed from Core Design's hands by the publisher because of the godawful mess they'd made of it.

Meanwhile, Iguana stopped developing Turok games after the third bombed and Iguana itself was sucked into Acclaim. And then Acclaim went bust.

Neither developer left either franchise of their own accord.

And this really is deserving of a lulwat:

The mechanics haven't changed over the years that much, a turn based RPG is a turned based RPG.

[BryanM]

I wanna watch an LP of Deadly Premonition, just to listen to the guy talk about 80's movies. It'd go nicely for the Nanashi no Game LP that seems to update at about two posts a month.

A blog-o-blog about Japanese survival horror games, for those interested.

[dcharlie]

again Richie, you need to stop saying "this gen is shit" when you are going out of your way to NOT play anything on the X360.

Surely you mean "the games on PS3 are shit" ?

[neorichieb1971]

Correct. I don't disagree there. There seems to be those teams who start a new I.P and there seems to be those other teams who do nothing but use previous ideas or I.P's. I loved turok 1 from Iguana, I thought Tomb Raider 1 was good.. All these I.P's were left abandoned by the originators due to fear of never leaving the franchise.

Nope. The Tomb Raider franchise was forcibly removed from Core Design's hands by the publisher because of the godawful mess they'd made of it.

Meanwhile, Iguana stopped developing Turok games after the third bombed and Iguana itself was sucked into Acclaim. And then Acclaim went bust.

Neither developer left either franchise of their own accord.

And this really is deserving of a lulwat:

The mechanics haven't changed over the years that much, a turn based RPG is a turned based RPG.

Wasn't talking about Core losing it. Was talking about the team that made part 1 left Core because they didn't want to make 10 sequels of it.

I was unaware Iguana made part 2 and 3 of turok but it seems your right. I thought Iguana left after part 1.. My mistake.

So what makes a turn based RPG for you then mate? For me its atmospherics and story. Clicking here and there doesn't really make or break a game does it?

Yes Dcharlie, saying that PS3 games are shit for the most part. Totally lost direction of whats good.

[dcharlie]

Yes Dcharlie, saying that PS3 games are shit for the most part. Totally lost direction of whats good.

well, yes - i agree. I previously enjoyed the JPN/West split with the PS2+GC/Xbox - this time around Sony seem to be falling over themselves to ape the X360.

Simply put, IMO at least, the X360 is just better for games - i'm sure you might not feel much better, but there's been much more to enjoy on the MS machine. Can't say i'm particularly a massive MS fan though i do like what the X360 has brought to the table in terms of titles. MS seem intent on doing one dumb thing after another (Kinect looks terrible, raising the XBL price is crazy, general DLC/REGIONED DLC madness) - and i can see them becoming even crazier if they end up spanking Sony again. I can appreciate not liking MS for sure, but the X360... you've got to dance with the devil to hear the good tunes this gen i'm afraid.

That said - there's still games worth checking out on the PS3 : Heavy Rain (yes! seriously - just rent it and stick with it , it's a slow burn but it sounds like a lot of what you want from a game - it's definitely the outstanding "different" game of this generation) , Demons Souls, Folklore/souls, Valkyria Chronicles, Uncharted 2 and , probably not most peoples cup of tea (especially brits, even though i'm a brit myself) - MLB The Show represent THE best of sports gaming.

[neorichieb1971]

My friend says that these days nothing makes you go "wow" anymore. He is right. Maybe our expectations are too high, the devs can't be bothered or they have lost direction.

Some of these so called "innovations" are really crap. Its embarrassing.

What we need in games is "Wonder", "Exploration of detail" etc. Just things that make you want to stay in that world. Doesn't matter if its on a flat HD panel in 2D or 3D. It just has to be a bit good.

Perhaps the problem is middleware, tech heads squeezing more polygons or something like that. But games are suffering no matter what it is.

These Wii controllers, 3D and what not, they are just distractions. It should be the games which are the distraction.

[Skykid]

My friend says that these days nothing makes you go "wow" anymore. He is right. Maybe our expectations are too high, the devs can't be bothered or they have lost direction.

Some of these so called "innovations" are really crap. Its embarrassing.

What we need in games is "Wonder", "Exploration of detail" etc. Just things that make you want to stay in that world. Doesn't matter if its on a flat HD panel in 2D or 3D. It just has to be a bit good.

I really completely get what you're saying on this Richie. In fact, even though I think you're still a little too staunch on your views and cutting out what little good stuff there is, I actually think we're very much in agreement based on some of your comments.

Wonder, imagination, creativity. Those things in games make me think of Rocket Knight Adventures and it's constantly changing playfield, Majora's Mask and its malleable back to the future style timeline, and Assault Suits Valken with it's branching endings and the attack on Arc Nova (amongst others.)
I agree that most games these days have got the look, the professionalism and the money, but they could do so much more in terms of imagination. In terms of 'wonder' as you said, they're mostly flat as a pancake. When I used to play Final Fantasy (16bit days) and Secret of Mana, I used to envision future consoles taking that genre to startling new heights, where you could even visit other worlds (somewhere between FF7's arcade in space and Galaxy High School), but when I realised RPG's never really got out of the starting blocks and everyone wanted pussy feminine lead characters instead of the hero figures of old, the genre died for me.

I actually appreciate your post man, I play so many modern games as a matter of course, it was good to get a reminder as to how I originally felt (and evidently still do) about the dearth of actual creativity. Leaping back to the thread topic, I'd definitely say the reason why the market lacks the wild adventure of my Super Famicom cupboard is because Japanese devs are no longer in the driving seat, and freedom to create isn't as much of an option as a the drive to imitate the western markets.

[Casey120]

I think this generation is as good as any .
I had a lot of fun with Demon Souls on the PS3 , was amazed and sucked in by Red Dead Redemption on 360 , had fun with Alan wake and was hooked on Halo Reach SP , i enjoyed the campaign so much i gave ODST a second chance and are in the middle of finally completing that .
I even dusted off my Wii for some S&P in between .
But all that time i keep playing shmups and Mushi will get some love tonight

Mind you all this playing fun is spread over quite some month's as i don't have sees of time to play , the only thing i do almost daily is playing a couple of rounds on the Cab.

[evil_ash_xero]

After reading Sky Kid's post directly below me, I decided to change this one to be...well, like his. I'm a copy cat. I won't use the number system though. These would all be 7.5 or more. I also won't count any remakes(Bionic Commando Rearmed etc.)

The most solid stuff this gen, for me, would be:

Demon's Souls
God Of War 3
Valkyria Chronicles
Metal Gear Solid 4(I have some serious problems with this, but it's good)
Vanquish
Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker
Ghost And Goblins Kai(japanese revision)
Contra 4
Dragon Quest IX
Lunar Knights
Ace Combat 6
Bayonetta
BlazBlue
Ninja Gaiden II
Resonance Of Fate(for gameplay only)
Resident Evil 5(weak follow up to 4, but good)
Sin and Punishment II

And then all of the Cave stuff, of course.
And not many of these have "wowed" me. Valkyria, God of War 3, Metal Gear: PW, Bayonetta, and Sin and Punishment 2 did though. Haven't played enough of Vanquish to say yet. We need more amazing games, for sure.


Yeah, for 5 systems, that's not a huge list by any means. Hopefully it will grow. This gen has had kind of a slow start anyway. It will not be like the PS2 days, I doubt, but it could get better.
I actually think the PS3 is catching up a bit to the 360, in terms of games....but it has NO shmups. The 360 is where it is at for that, and it has more variety on it's XBLA.

[Skykid]

I think this generation is as good as any .
I had a lot of fun with Demon Souls on the PS3 , was amazed and sucked in by Red Dead Redemption on 360 , had fun with Alan wake and was hooked on Halo Reach SP , i enjoyed the campaign so much i gave ODST a second chance and are in the middle of finally completing that .
I even dusted off my Wii for some S&P in between .
But all that time i keep playing shmups and Mushi will get some love tonight

Mind you all this playing fun is spread over quite some month's as i don't have sees of time to play , the only thing i do almost daily is playing a couple of rounds on the Cab.

Out of ten, my current gen scoring (all judged on campaign modes only:)

Zelda: Phantom Hourglass - 6
Zelda: Spirit tracks - 6
Zelda: Twilight Princess - 7
Phoenix Wright: AA - 7
Halo 3 - 7
ODST - 7
Halo Reach - 7
Gears of War - 8
Gears of War 2 - 7
Bayonetta - 6
CV: Lords of Shadow - 7
Mario Galaxy - 9
Mario Galaxy 2 - 9
Sin and Punishment 2 - 9
Red Dead Redemption - 8
God of War 3 - 8
Alan Wake - 6
Street Fighter IV - 7
Super Street Fighter IV - 8

Only three of those I'd give a nine, and only three have the kind of depth of imagination and creativity I was hoping for in an evolving game marketplace. The others are good games, based around overdone structures and ideas, and are perhaps the best examples of their very tired genres.

More to the point though, it's a very short list.

[dcharlie]

My friend says that these days nothing makes you go "wow" anymore. He is right. Maybe our expectations are too high, the devs can't be bothered or they have lost direction.

I've had no trouble finding things to wow me this gen - and i mean in terms of ideas rather than in terms of graphical excitement. Might also be a timing thing or a natural "jaded" cycle - i've been gaming since i was a tot in at the Zx81/pre-Jamma era and i had simply "had it" with gaming around 2000-2002 - but it passed.

Seriously, why don't you try Portal and just find out how wrong you and your mate are about this lack of "wow" thing? Hell, buy Orange Box simply because it's an amazing package (i am assuming you played Half Life 2 and didn't write it off as "lol, all shooters are the same, it's shit" right? RIGHT?!)

Orange box is on the PS3 after all so you don't have to compromise your predisposition to hating on the best platform this gen (although it's pretty much PC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> x360 >>>>>>>>>>>>> PS3 in this case - naturally ! )

There's so much good stuff this gen - though , yeah, if i was a PS3 only gamer i'd be a whole lot less enthusiastic (though i still managed to top 65 PS3 games to date )

[Casey120]

Well it's close to impossible to argue about games as it all comes down to personal taste .

Mario galaxy got me bored pretty fast although i did my best to like it as did Zelda TP , Alan Wake i enjoyed a lot once i figured out that it's not a blind shooter and you must use the light to your advantage .
I still have GOW 3 , MGS4 and Uncharted sealed and ready to play for PS3 but i might skip MGS altogether , never liked the series and got this one for free .

[dcharlie]

Well it's close to impossible to argue about games as it all comes down to personal taste .

well, you know i usually agree - but at this point in time if you have all the consoles and you can't find anything -at all- that makes you at least go slightly "wow" then i'd be extremely surprised. As Richie has already said though - he's basically more complaining about the PS3 which, to be honest, i can see where he is coming from.

but i might skip MGS altogether , never liked the series and got this one for free .

interesting one , MGS4. I've been up and down on the series as a whole. I expected MGS4 to be a disappointment but for the first two Acts the game is absolutely brilliant.

Just as i was applying pepper to my stetson, ready to tuck in , Act 3 swooped in to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory as the game positively shat all over itself. Acts 4 and 5 ensure an emphatic self destruction with everything new and novel thrown away as Kojima ramps up the "absurdness" levels to eleven. Managed to plug through and finish the game, which at least meant i could live through the 1hr 40 or so long final cutscene which was the gaming equivalent of sandpapering your own knackers.

Uncharted 2 was just out and out great IMO. Wasn't overly fond of Unch 1 though finished it back when it came out, but Uncharted 2 is a really great action game. Felt it was much better as a single player game than GoW1 or 2.

[evil_ash_xero]

I think I may be the only human being who liked the "stalking" in Chapter 3. Hey, it was different!

But yes, the first two chapters are where it really shines.

Hey, but he straightened it up on Peace Walker.

[Skykid]

Well it's close to impossible to argue about games as it all comes down to personal taste .

Mario galaxy got me bored pretty fast although i did my best to like it as did Zelda TP , Alan Wake i enjoyed a lot once i figured out that it's not a blind shooter and you must use the light to your advantage .
I still have GOW 3 , MGS4 and Uncharted sealed and ready to play for PS3 but i might skip MGS altogether , never liked the series and got this one for free .

You really won't be missing much if you do skip it. It's okay though.

Alan Wake, ah, it was just so dull though! The atmosphere was great, I really dug it, but I was so disappointed to find out that the game worked on a repeating cycle and one simple mechanic.
I played it for about 3 hours and just couldn't be bothered anymore, it just became a chore. Bit of a shame I thought, all things considered.

[dcharlie]

Hey, but he straightened it up on Peace Walker.

yup, Peace Walker is a great great game. My favourite MGS (that doesn't have AC!D in the title )

I played it for about 3 hours and just couldn't be bothered anymore, it just became a chore. Bit of a shame I thought, all things considered.

I dropped off coming into the last episode, just need to go back and polish it off. It's got it's moments, but as you say the whole thing feels a bit too repetitive. Story is okay i guess - okay enough for me to want to find out what was going on.

[Skykid]

I dropped off coming into the last episode, just need to go back and polish it off. It's got it's moments, but as you say the whole thing feels a bit too repetitive. Story is okay i guess - okay enough for me to want to find out what was going on.

Yep, I won't downplay the qualities of the game. The atmosphere was great and the story was intriguing. I loved what it was trying to do, but the actual game itself felt like a bit of an afterthought. It was like having to run a pitch black racecourse, interspersed with a brief section of daylight investigation.
It got to the point where charging flashlight, aiming flashlight, shooting gun, moving on, repeat, was just boring. I sold it in the end, when it comes to precious time, I need to get my priorities straight.

[neorichieb1971]

My favourite franchise last gen was God of War, but God of War 3 failed me due to the "Dad i'm going to kill you" storyline. It had no other pushing factor in the story and Kratos became a bit of a hate character. Technically it was a marvel to look at, if a bit confusing on some of the earlier bosses with all those arms swinging around.

I am a one console person this gen due to similarities forced by the industry to have all the consoles making the same kind of games. With PS3 seemingly having the extra edge hardware wise (and reliability) I stuck with it. I still have this faith that Sony will strive ahead and Microsoft will wither away until the next console launch.

But ultimately games are about numbers these days. I'm very much believing that a game that I would consider the pinnacle of my personal taste would be one that wouldn't sell in great numbers. I'm not in vogue anymore. I watched the lawnmower man in the 90's thinking todays games would be like that. I envisaged a space harrier game like the Lawnmower mans 3D renderings in the movie. Even with motion controls that sort of thing should be easy to do, but its never been explored.

[Casey120]

I understand what you say , Alan Wake gets a bit repetitive in the end but i still liked it though .
Uncharted 1 OTOH i just quit , it started so fucking unbelievable , the setting , story everything was great , the boat , cave , i liked the Car chase but then the developer seem to run out of ideas and thought fighting the same guys and their twin brothers again and again would be fun , gain some ground and fight again , after the zombie's i just gave up .
Killzone 2 i liked from start to finish , i am looking forward to number 3 .

Going to start UC 2 right after i finish Halo ODST and that wont be long , lets see if they have learned from the first one , i heard it's a much better game .
.

PS ,

I am on my work and it's pissing to no end outside , somehow i thought it would be smart to go by scooter today to avoid traffic jams , in 45 minutes I'm going to be very sorry for that stupid decision

[dcharlie]

But ultimately games are about numbers these days. I'm very much believing that a game that I would consider the pinnacle of my personal taste would be one that wouldn't sell in great numbers. I'm not in vogue anymore. I watched the lawnmower man in the 90's thinking todays games would be like that. I envisaged a space harrier game like the Lawnmower mans 3D renderings in the movie. Even with motion controls that sort of thing should be easy to do, but its never been explored.

... you know about Child of Eden though... right?

Uncharted 1 OTOH i just quit , it started so fucking unbelievable , the setting , story everything was great , the boat , cave , i liked the Car chase but then the developer seem to run out of ideas and thought fighting the same guys and their twin brothers again and again would be fun , gain some ground and fight again , after the zombie's i just gave up

Uncharted 1 i didn't mind - but i didn't get the backflips people were doing over it. It was a good game, but not a great game. Uncharted 2 is a -GREAT- game though - it's just so well done and it addresses some of the bigger concerns (Drake and Sully dialogue for one ! )

Killzone 2 i liked from start to finish , i am looking forward to number 3 .

Loved the atmosphere but got a bit frustrated with being funneled down a one way street a few too many times and the last level seemed to give up on avoiding respawning and i ended up being reduced to just running from check point to check point , trying to trigger that extra bit of progress. Final boss was an extremely weak ending - wish they'd just called it a day when you reached the door as at least that felt like a real struggle/battle. Will be all over KZ3 - all it will take is getting the level design right. KZ2's opening beach drop with the sound system cranked up is a great moment.

Going to start UC 2 right after i finish Halo ODST and that wont be long , lets see if they have learned from the first one , i heard it's a much better game .

yeah, it's infinitely better. One or two "jump the shark" moments (that i won't mention) but it's a great experience.

and Kratos became a bit of a hate character.

yup - i have the same feeling. I'm just suffering from Kratos fatigue after 4 games - i guess he's not supposed to be likable but now he's just out and out annoying.

[Casey120]

Virtual reality died in the 90's !

Blame Nintendo