Dreamcast shmups, VGA and tate options.

[oli_lar]

I recently bought a Dreamcast, again. I'd like to use it with with my rotatable CRT VGA monitor (ADI microscan), though the monitor only rotates clockwise. So:

A) Which DC shmups support vga? (or do they all? Never really kept up with DC stuff)

B) Which shmups allow you to tate the image anti clockwise (ie so that the top of the image is at the left, bottom on the right). Its been a while since I played any tate-able console shmups and iirc at least a few of the saturn ones only allowed the opposite.

Of course the monitor is fine being placed on whatever edge being rotatable, but I'd prefer to sit it on its stand.

C) Finally, I intend on doing an internal VGA mod (and optical while I'm at it) but in case I don't, is there any drastic difference between the official and 3rd party vga boxes?

[PsychoGun]

Might want to ask this in the hardware forum.

[Keade]

A) Which DC shmups support vga? (or do they all? Never really kept up with DC stuff)

The vast majority of DC games support VGA. I think most titles which won't work in VGA are games which work in 240p. There are some lists available on the Internet, such as this one
As for titles I've tested myself long ago :
- I know Border Down, Gigawing, Ikaruga support VGA.
- Bangai-O, Gunbird 2 (90% sure) don't.

B) no idea

C) Finally, I intend on doing an internal VGA mod (and optical while I'm at it) but in case I don't, is there any drastic difference between the official and 3rd party vga boxes?

If you're going to use your box only for VGA, a box is no use, a cable will be enough.
The DC VGA cables don't do any video processing as the DC outputs 'native' VGA, so I think cable brands shouldn't make big difference image quality wise.
I use a non-Sega cable and the quality is perfect.

[Kiken]

A) Which DC shmups support vga? (or do they all? Never really kept up with DC stuff)

The vast majority of DC games support VGA. I think most titles which won't work in VGA are games which work in 240p. There are some lists available on the Internet, such as this one
As for titles I've tested myself long ago :
- I know Border Down, Gigawing, Ikaruga support VGA.
- Bangai-O, Gunbird 2 (90% sure) don't.

Kaede listed both of the 240p only shmups (Bakuretsu Muteki Bangaioh and Gunbird 2). Yes, you can use the "force trick" to get them both to display, but the results are pretty poor. Stick with an extra RGB or S-Video cable for these.

All the other shmups on the DC support 480p VGA.

As for B: I know that Psyvariar 2: The Will to Fabricate supports both 90 and 270 degree displays. But I believe that's the only one.

[oli_lar]

Might want to ask this in the hardware forum.

I thought seeing as it was a dual hardware/software question I'd put it here, but if mods feel its better over there, feel free to move it.

Thanks Kaede & Kiken. Its a pity Bangai-o doesn't support vga, but at least its the only one I'm really bothered about.

Good to know Psyvariar 2 supports both ways, sad to hear its the only one
Can anyone confirm theres no more? Guess I'll have to put the monitor without a stand, ventilation might be a problem.

[Marble]

Gunbird 2 (90% sure) don't.

You can TATE Gunbird 2 either way. I specifically remember because I got rid of it in order to get the PS2 port, which doesn't allow it (and my TV's colours go really weird on one side).

[clp]

Gunbird 2 (90% sure) don't.

You can TATE Gunbird 2 either way. I specifically remember because I got rid of it in order to get the PS2 port, which doesn't allow it (and my TV's colours go really weird on one side).

They were talking about vga compatibility not tate options. Try turning your tv before you switch it on.

[Marble]

Ah, whoops - terrible reading comprehension on my behalf. Carry on!

[the black_7]

Yes, you can use the "force trick" to get them both to display, but the results are pretty poor.

Tell me more about this "force trick".

[mjclark]

Good to know Psyvariar 2 supports both ways, sad to hear its the only one
Can anyone confirm theres no more? Guess I'll have to put the monitor without a stand, ventilation might be a problem.

Trizeal rotates both ways too you know!
But Karous and Radilgy do not.

If it makes you feel any better, I stayed up til 5a.m. this morning tateing an old Fidelity CRT without a remote. I thought I could manually tune it in to my PS2 connected with an RF cable (!) but couldn't get a signal. realised it was the cable so got a replacement, got a signal and then discovered the TV doesn't support NTSC (!!) so only Raiden III worked then thought maybe the Dreamcast would give a PAL signal for NTSC. Then the RF cable for the Dreamcast broke (!!!) so then I rewired the cable and now I can play Psyvariar 2, Radilgy, Karous and Trizeal properly. And that's how I know lol

@ oli_lar :
Found your comments on Flame Zapper Kotsujin on another forum very helpful so thanks! And did anyone ever find out what the "junk bonus" was actually for?!

[Kiken]

Yes, you can use the "force trick" to get them both to display, but the results are pretty poor.

Tell me more about this "force trick".

If you have a VGA box (with a switch to go back and forth between the composite/s-vid connections and the vga connection), you boot the game in 240p/480i mode and then flick the switch to go to vga mode. Some games will not make the switch at all... others will load with various display errors.

For instance, Bangaioh will display in the upper-left quarter of the screen with about an additional 1/3 screen of overscan visible. Gunbird 2's image will fill the whole screen, but will begin suffering from sprite loading errors come stage 4.

[Specineff]

I may be mistaken, but I think Shikigami No Shiro can be rotated either way.

[Paladin]

What a coincidence, I just spent a good portion of today separating the tate capable Dreamcast shmups for my Blast City!
Here's what I ended up with for tate play through a VGA box:
Under Defeat
Ikaruga
Radilgy
Trizeal
Psyvariar 2
Shikigami no Shiro 2
Triggerheart Exelica

I'm still fairly new to the Dreamcast and shmups in general, so there may be others I missed.

I don't know if it's frowned upon here to mention DC multi game CD's, but what prompted me to do this was that both the 4 in 1 and 3 in 1 shmup compilation CD's have a combination of games that are/aren't tate capable. I wanted to keep only tate games with my tate cab.

[Christoph]

Fast Striker supports it..

I think I might preorder this soon..

http://www.ngdevdirect.com/product_info ... ucts_id=40

[Obiwanshinobi]

Which shmups allow you to tate the image anti clockwise (ie so that the top of the image is at the left, bottom on the right).

Fun fact: in Namco Museum collections for the PSX (I know it's not helping you), verticals can be only turned like that (in the US versions too). They must have been released before the other way around became standard.

[oli_lar]

@ oli_lar :
Found your comments on Flame Zapper Kotsujin on another forum very helpful so thanks! And did anyone ever find out what the "junk bonus" was actually for?!

Thanks for info on Trizeal (& Shiki, Spacineff) - not played it before, but its on the list of titles I'm interested in getting.

RE flame zapper - good to hear I was of use. Great game isn't it. Was that on the RG forum caravan score attack thread? Never found out what the junk bonus was though no. Though I suspect what I said in the thread is probably the case - enemies spit out lots of very obvious shrapnel when they die, so collecting those probably increases it. I'd like to know if you find out for definite. Not actually played the game since that thread, really should have another go at the 1cc as its a fairly easy one. Been too preoccupied with X68000 during my grand rom folder reorganization for it.

[ubersaurus]

As far as Horis go I know Border Down and both Last Hope releases support VGA too. Border Down looks freaking beautiful.

[ckong]

What a coincidence, I just spent a good portion of today separating the tate capable Dreamcast shmups for my Blast City!
Here's what I ended up with for tate play through a VGA box:
Under Defeat
Ikaruga
Radilgy
Trizeal
Psyvariar 2
Shikigami no Shiro 2
Triggerheart Exelica

I'm still fairly new to the Dreamcast and shmups in general, so there may be others I missed.

Karous
Gunbird 2

Edit: these two can be played in tate but are no VGA.

[Kiken]

Karous
Gunbird 2

Edit: these two can be played in tate but are no VGA.

Karous is most definitely VGA compatible.

[clp]

Karous
Gunbird 2

Edit: these two can be played in tate but are no VGA.

Karous is most definitely VGA compatible.

Yep karous is VGA not quite sure why you would think it wasnt.

[ckong]

ok, my mistake.

[Paladin]

I just tried Gunbird 2, and was able to get it to run through my VGA box by booting it with the switch in the 15k position and then switching it to 31k once it had loaded.

I did not see an option to rotate the image though.

[Kiken]

I just tried Gunbird 2, and was able to get it to run through my VGA box by booting it with the switch in the 15k position and then switching it to 31k once it had loaded.

I did not see an option to rotate the image though.

You have to select Arcade (as opposed to Original 1 or Original 2) to display GB2 in tate.

[Paladin]

Ah! Thanks!

[noiseredux]

I just tried Gunbird 2, and was able to get it to run through my VGA box by booting it with the switch in the 15k position and then switching it to 31k once it had loaded.

I did not see an option to rotate the image though.

You have to select Arcade (as opposed to Original 1 or Original 2) to display GB2 in tate.

sorry to necrobump, but it was said earlier in this thread that GB2 can TATE in either way. However, when I select Arcade it goes counter-clockwise (bottom of screen on left), but I need it to flip the other way for my monitor. Can someone tell me how to get it to do this? Thanks!

[louisg]

You can force VGA on GunBird 2, but I want to emphasize that it gets really screwed up-- I remember tons of slowdown and the scaling sprite effect not working when loaded this way. Also, though you can play the CPS2 ports in VGA (Mars Matrix, GigaWing), the stretching is awful looking on VGA even with the trick that gets rid of vertical ripple.

Anything 3d will work in VGA.

[noiseredux]

Thanks, but I'm not asking about VGA for Gunbird 2. I'm asking about TATE'ing it.

[BulletMagnet]

To the best of my knowledge you can only tate it in the one direction...maybe you could un-attach the monitor screen from its stand and re-screw it back on upside-down, or lean it against something?