Multiple difficulty modes: The new trend in shmups?

[BrianC]

The more options to control how you want to play the game, the better. Hell, if you could edit the speed of enemies, your hit box size, rate of fire, and frequency of power up appearances all seperately, that would be even cooler.

Castle Shikigami 2 has something like that. I love how some Compile games have a mode where bullets appear when enemies die. GG Aleste is a good example of this. Though not a Compile game, the Extreme mode of Castle Shikigami 2 is very similar to those modes in some of those older Compile games.

Despite the higher difficulties being hidden, the harder modes of Blazing Lazers make a huge difference. Enemies shoot much more often and bosses have more attacks.

[llabnip]

Playing for score would be the most boring thing in the world

Let me guess... you didn't grow up in the early 80's...

and where would be the sense of closure after a difficult struggle? I like closure.

I like closure on movies and books. I don't like it on games. I love how modern games make claims like "there's 50 hours of gameplay here!". Wow, 50 hours! Kaboom in 1981 provided gamers with an unyielding number of hours of gameplay - and many of us spent a summer or two working on besting our scores against the mad bomber. I'm still playing 25 years later at the same frequency (which is to say quite a bit). An entire generation of arcade gamers got by without endpoints to games (other than a limit to the number of digits that could be displayed). It was good enough for several generations who worked magic with the silver ball (read my username backwards) and it was good enough for a generation of early video gamers. There has been a definite shift in the past few generations of games where there is a goal outside of score (RPGs take this to an extreme). The shift happens because gamers want this - so I'm in the minority but I'm happiest with games that increase in challenge but have no specific end-point.

I think I enjoy classic and modern shooters so much because they remind me of the early videogame era - games that are simple to learn to play but generally hard to master and you usually working towards high scores or to advance into later levels (not necessarily to conclude the game or to unfold a story -- though those elements do crop up in the genere with mixed results).

[Randorama]

Let me guess... you didn't grow up in the early 80's...

I did, that's why i like games with an ending: now i have to work, study and "run" a life. Endurance tests are nice as long as you're a kid and you have a lot of time to waste.Now that i've grown up, i prefer to see if can do better every day, instead of seeing how much i can endure at the same task. Beside that, the myth of the Golden age is, indeed, a myth: but if you want to believe that the past is Golden because you were a child, well, de mitibus non considerandum est...

[llabnip]

I did, that's why i like games with an ending: now i have to work, study and "run" a life.

It's a good point... maybe that's why the shift happened. Anyway, I feel badly for all the folks that were forced to grow up.

instead of seeing how much i can endure at the same task

Isn't that what shooter are? Start at level 1 and go as far as you can... I just don't like to see it have an end-point.

On second thought, the classic games (Atari, Colecovision, Intellivision, etc) I play are perfect for a modern life. You don't have passwords and you don't have to remember where you were (like with an RPG), you don't have to re-learn controls (most games had 1 button) - you just sit down, play for however long you want and turn it off. If you are skilled enough you_can_ spend as much time as you like (since they generally play on forever)... it's really up to the player. I don't like to work through a game only to find an ending that doesn't allow me to push further.

but if you want to believe that the past is Golden because you were a child, well, de mitibus non considerandum est...

I don't read alien sandscript (or latin?!), so I'm not sure what this is. I can tell you that I do spend a huge amount of time recapturing my youth. Rubic's Cubes, Black Magic 8-Balls (....it is very likely indeed!...), electronic gadgets (I must have 50 of those little hand-held thingys) and, most importantly, classic video games. I love that stuff... it really was a Golden Age for me and I continue to enjoy things from that era.

[CMoon]

I can tell you that I do spend a huge amount of time recapturing my youth. .

Dude, the first Gatchaman box set just came out in the US, I am totally reliving my childhood (BIRD GO!!!)

[BulletMagnet]

Anyway, I feel badly for all the folks that were forced to grow up.

Bah. As my case shows, it's optional.

[Randorama]

It's a good point... maybe that's why the shift happened. Anyway, I feel badly for all the folks that were forced to grow up.

I suppose you don't have a mirror at home.Also, but this is not game-related, some of us have to face serious problems in life, remaining a child isn't a good method to solve them.This doesn't mean that i don't enjoy life....obviously.

Isn't that what shooter are? [

No. Shmups are what the programmers make them, for the lack of a better definition.

On second thought, the classic games (Atari, Colecovision, Intellivision, etc) I play are perfect for a modern life. You don't have passwords and you don't have to remember where you were (like with an RPG), you don't have to re-learn controls (most games had 1 button) - you just sit down, play for however long you want and turn it off.

What's an RPG? I never played anything else but arcade games, or their ports. On the other hand, i like to think, and that's why i don't like anymore to do 6 loops of flying shark, too mechanic.Also, with the amount of time i can spend on said six loops, i can play at least three other different games.

I don't read alien sandscript (or latin?!)

Latin, and i find fairly offensive such a comment. Incredible but true: there are and have been other languages beside English.

I can tell you that I do spend a huge amount of time recapturing my youth. Rubic's Cubes, Black Magic 8-Balls (....it is very likely indeed!...), electronic gadgets (I must have 50 of those little hand-held thingys) and, most importantly, classic video games. I love that stuff... it really was a Golden Age for me and I continue to enjoy things from that era.

Me too, i just don't put them on pedestal because they're from the past. Beside that, the "Golden era" you talk about was, so to speak, the triumph of arcade ports, or the " arcade at home!" approach. Again, as long as you consider it your personal golden age, fine, but it's just yours. For some of us who looped Tatsujin back in 1988, endless repetition of the same unchallenging loop is a pain.

Can you accept that?

[llabnip]

It's a good point... maybe that's why the shift happened. Anyway, I feel badly for all the folks that were forced to grow up.

I suppose you don't have a mirror at home.

I do, but it reduces everything to a 4:1 scale.

Latin, and i find fairly offensive such a comment. Incredible but true: there are and have been other languages beside English.

I apologize. I didn't mean it to be offensive. It was meant as a light remark to brush over the fact that I don't know Latin. I didn't mean to suggest that English (the only language I speak) is the one-true language.

Me too, i just don't put them on pedestal because they're from the past.

They are not my favoraite games because they are from the past. I put them on a pedestal because (in my opinion) many of those games from years gone by remain unmatched in terms of addictive gameplay. If I haven't played a game in years and was just remembering them fondly, I could see your point.

In any event, I prefer games that have no specific ending. Not because they are games from my past, but rather because those are the games I generally prefer. Interesting logic, huh?

[incognoscente]

but if you want to believe that the past is Golden because you were a child, well, de mitibus non considerandum est...

I don't read alien sandscript (or latin?!)

Latin, and i find fairly offensive such a comment. Incredible but true: there are and have been other languages beside English.

Incredible but practical: not everyone understands Latin and whatever point you try to make is lost when you use Latin to drive home your point to English readers. You could try translating the phrase or providing both the original tongue and a translation to show that it is an indigenous phrase while still providing a meaning to your audience.

Unless, of course, the point is to keep the audience from listening.

[Randorama]

Incredible but practical: not everyone understands Latin and whatever point you try to make is lost when you use Latin to drive home your point to English readers. You could try translating the phrase or providing both the original tongue and a translation to show that it is an indigenous phrase while still providing a meaning to your audience.

Unless, of course, the point is to keep the audience from listening.

You're completely off-topic, and thus i may consider it a form of trolling.

However, the choice of words was intended to sound vaguely familiar, as "considerandum est " isn't that different from "considered is". Also, myth= mitus, so... i would add that calling a language other than English "alien" is still offensive, and it this lack of open-mindedness, especially when from Anglophonics, is offensive (there are worst cases, but it is still not an excuse). Beside that, it's "language", not "tongue"...neo-latin (or romance, or someone who says "lingua" or "langue" or "lengua" or etc) speaker ?

But beside that:

In any event, I prefer games that have no specific ending. Not because they are games from my past, but rather because those are the games I generally prefer. Interesting logic, huh?

Apologies accepted, but :
This is different from "growing up in the '80s", as for instance "Warning Forever" does loop forever. Addictiveness...i lose passion for a game when i don't find any challenges anymore, and between playing Flying Shark for 4 hours and complete Black Tiger, Cadash, and other games in the same time-span, i prefer the latter. Why? Because i still find the former, even at the hardest difficulty, unchallenging.If i stop to play consistently (no addictiveness anymore) a game, it's because i don't find the stimulus to learn new things. Most of the "golden age" games, because of their nature of pioneers, were pretty simple (not simplistic) and thus could be easily mastered. When i was a kid, i liked to repeat forever an easy challenge, it gave me confidence, but now i prefer to change once i feel unchallenged.

Regarding the original argument of the thread, i think that multiple difficulty modes should become again the "new trend", because it gives room for people who don't live for the ultimate score to just have a blast. Mushihime seems to be the right idea: slightly different flavours of the same style, why not? Arcade in Japan (the only place where this discourse counts) are shrinking, so the average player can be a benefit for the economy of a title. After all, if the "Normal" mode of Mushi is the target of mastery for some of the most skilled, it must have some qualities.

And, let's not forget, endless games plus master players= eternal queues. Bad thing if you're in the line and not the player

[Nemo]

I'm just hoping that this isn't going to catch on and we'll soon have a bunch of shmups with dumbed-down normal modes while the real game is relegated to some alternate section for the "Crazies" who want a real challenge.

Let's put it this way, the normal mode may be toned down compared to the bar Cave has set for their shooters, but that doesn't mean necessarily mean it's any easier than most shooters that come out these days. I can't comment however, till I play it. The fact of the matter is Cave games are notoriously difficult, so even if Mushi's normal mode is too easy for vets, there are 2 other modes to absorb your time. Find the setting that suits you best and stick with it, it's no different than playing an old-school shooter and cranking up the difficulty to max in order to make the game worthwhile. Once developers only have one mode and it's dumbed-down, then there might be some call for concern.

[gameoverDude]

I'm not really a loop fan myself, nor have I ever been. Once you clear all eight or so stages, that should be it. With fucktons of bullets, Xexex's 2nd loop is rather manic compared to the first. It would've been nice to have the game end after one go-round, with the ability to choose the 2nd loop as we know it as a "Maniac" mode ala Mushihime.

Given that you can loop Gradius infinite times, it can easily degenerate into a marathon contest. Marathons suck. If Gradius V were an arcade game, there could be people waiting AGES in line and the high scores would end up out of reach of most players.

Flying Shark does get old after you loop it a few times.