YOUR FAVOURITE MEGADRIVE/GENESIS SHMUP!!!!!

[MachineAres 1CC]

I recently picked up one of the newer model licensed Genesis systems and have been picking up some shmups, enjoying some, others not so much. I currently have:

Phelios: I like this quite a bit, old style verts just kick ass and this is really fun, if you're not playing on easy, the difficulty seems just right.

Gynoug: Enjoy this a lot, and I'm not a huge fan of most horis.

Arrow Flash: Fun hori, not exceptionally good.

MUSHA: I really don't like this game very much, just don't like the designs and the movement very much.

Trouble Shooter: Enjoy this a LOT, one of the better games I have, kinda reminds me of an old school Deathsmiles type game, different directions of scrolling, shooting on both sides, etc.

Insector X: Pretty cool hori, not exceptionally good.

Thunderforce 2: This game is lame as hell. Its like the old Namco game Bosconian but really shitty and hard to see what's going on.

Ranger X: I don't own it, but I played it at the store for a while and I don't see the appeal. Its not really a shmup, since you control most of the scrolling, but I didn't really care for it.

Also, could we possibly amass some sort of comprehensive list of Genesis shmups? I'd like to look into a lot of other ones, but not sure where to start.

[Limbrooke]

I recently picked up one of the newer model unlicensed Genesis systems and have been picking up some shmups, enjoying some, others not so much.

Thunderforce 2: This game is lame as hell. Its like the old Namco game Bosconian but really shitty and hard to see what's going on.

Try beating the first level before trashing the game. The levels flip-flop, one over-head auto scroll then one horizontal side scroll, so it sounds like you didn't make it too far, yet. The side scrolling levels are pretty good and quite challenging (death=all pardon default weapon lost, you probably already knew that though), much like the whole game so it's hard to appreciate out of the gate. Was for me anyway, and now that I find the challenge more appealing the game itself is a lot more enjoyable.

Also, Bosconian is an excellent game.

MUSHA: I really don't like this game very much, just don't like the designs and the movement very much.

Strange. I thought the design was all this game had going for it. It's not bad, but the levels drag on far too long (see: Compile).

As for a good list, look no further than the ancient Xenocide files on the homepage: http://shmups.com/xenocidefiles/megadrive.html

[MachineAres 1CC]

Try beating the first level before trashing the game. The levels flip-flop, one over-head auto scroll then one horizontal side scroll, so it sounds like you didn't make it too far, yet. The side scrolling levels are pretty good and quite challenging (death=all pardon default weapon lost, you probably already knew that though), much like the whole game so it's hard to appreciate out of the gate.

I definitely didn't get very far because the first level was really annoying, so I didn't play much.

Also, Bosconian is an excellent game.

It is, very much so, but the emptiness of space helps to see when enemies or bullets are heading towards you, unlike in the TF2 levels where there's foliage and lots of other shit behind you, making it hard to see.

Strange. I thought the design was all this game had going for it. It's not bad, but the levels drag on far too long (see: Compile).

I used to like the design when I played it as a kid, but playing it now, its really not very impressive, and yes, you're very right about the levels dragging far too long.

As for a good list, look no further than the ancient Xenocide files on the homepage: http://shmups.com/xenocidefiles/megadrive.html

Thanks, I'll check it out. I had looked around on the main part of the site earlier this year, but that was before I started getting Genesis stuff.

EDIT: And damn, maybe I'm just going to stick to my habit of going to old used game stores to find Genesis games, cause some of these are fetching absolutely ridiculous prices online.

[Rob]

cause some of these are fetching absolutely ridiculous prices online.

I love my new flash cart.

Thunder Force II is great and underrated. Play the stages for speed and they'll be much more enjoyable.

Ranger X is nice if you can go for something slower paced than most Genesis action games. Right that it's not a traditional shooter, though.

[MachineAres 1CC]

cause some of these are fetching absolutely ridiculous prices online.

I love my new flash cart.

What kind of flash cart do you have and where can you get them? That'd probably be a very worthy investment.

[Rob]

What kind of flash cart do you have and where can you get them? That'd probably be a very worthy investment.

Neo Myth MD

[MachineAres 1CC]

What kind of flash cart do you have and where can you get them? That'd probably be a very worthy investment.

Neo Myth MD

That's pretty expensive, I think I might just pick up some of the cheaper carts that I can find online and just stick with that. That seems like a really awesome thing to have, too, since you can play Sega CD and 32X games as well, but that's just too steep when I just kinda play my Genesis as a novelty, I'm not a hardcore collector or anything.

[toaplan_shmupfan]

MUSHA: I really don't like this game very much, just don't like the designs and the movement very much.

How far did you get in the game?

Okay, so the first stage drags on for a bit and the second stage is slow overall, but after a moderately paced third stage the game really picks up the pace and intensity until the end of the game in stage 8. In this manner, the game builds up gradually and consistently.

Movement is precise and well controlled, only the screen does not pan left/right like some other verticals do. Press pause and increase or decrease the speed if the default speed is too slow (it definitely isn't too fast).

Gameplay is otherwise solid in that it's not just a one hit loss of a turn when a secondary weapon is held--the first hit loses the secondary weapon and then the second hit loses a turn. Easy and Normal can even be completed without any need to adjust the default speed (but changing speeds makes some sections that much easier), and then Hard ramps up considerably more with faster shots and especially much faster and more accurate cruise missiles from the enemies.

Designs are definitely Japanese influenced and I like them very much. The art is especially detailed for an overhead perspective and has some sort of 3D effects in some places (e.g., floor tiles dropping out, enemies rising up from below) plus none of it interferes with any other game elements at all.

Control of the pods usually only needs forward, 3-way, back, or occasionally free, but still the mastery of pod positioning is still an integral part of the game. Experimenting with reverse and roll pod positioning can also work in some places.

I also think the soundtrack is also excellent in terms of instrumentation and setting the pace of each stage of the game. This is when I've played it with a genuine Sega Genesis system, I don't know how well the newer/emulation based systems do play the music.

Thunderforce 2: This game is lame as hell. Its like the old Namco game Bosconian but really shitty and hard to see what's going on.

Definitely agree about the overhead stages, mainly because I think the ship speed in those stages is too fast for precision control.

Hold down A and press start to access the setup menu. Select stage 2 or stage 4 to start with the horizontal scrolling stages, although after a horizontal scrolling stage will be another overhead stage. Horizontal stages are also strict memorizers and even require being in the right 1/3 of the screen for some of the closing wall sections. This game is still not one of my favorites, yet I don't hate it enough to get rid of it, so I play this gme maybe for about an hour once a year but then it sits on the shelf for a very long time until I play it again.

[MachineAres 1CC]

Just picked up a bunch more games for my Genesis, and a few others still on the way.

Thunder Force 3: Hard as balls and not terribly fun, but better than 2.

Thunder Force 4: Amazing. So many strategies to use and so many different options for the way you play.

Twin Cobra: A really hard Raiden ripoff, but a pretty solid game.

Vapor Trail: Pretty mediocre Raiden ripoff, the game is pretty glitchy. Shots randomly disappear and your hitbox is huuuuuge.

Task Force Harrier: This game is just plain awesome. Fun to play from start to finish, lots of different pickups, ground and air targets, etc. And cute mission briefing girlies

Truxton: This is made of awesome as well. A classic Toplan bullet-fest with awesome weapon choices and lots of challenging stages.

Battle Squadron: A pretty decent shooter, a bit glitchy, and there's no score counter, so kinda disappointing.

Grind Stormer: Awesome, fast paced shooter with lots of crazy bullets and enemies on screen at once, feels like it takes a lot from CAVE games and the DDP series, but more sci-fi.

[Rob]

Twin Cobra: A really hard Raiden ripoff, but a pretty solid game.

A bit unfair to call it a Raiden rip-off since it came out years before Raiden.

[MachineAres 1CC]

Twin Cobra: A really hard Raiden ripoff, but a pretty solid game.

A bit unfair to call it a Raiden rip-off since it came out years before Raiden.

I guess it wouldn't, but the genesis one came out after Raiden. I haven't played the arcade Twin Cobra, but it seems to be very different from the Genesis one, from what I've gathered.

[Rob]

All of the vertical arcade shooter conversions are "different", I don't think it was significantly different (aside from maybe difficulty) though. The arcade version is definitely like Raiden. On other arcade ports you mentioned, I love Grindstormer (V-Five), but the Genesis version sadly came out pretty bad. Even that first boss battle feels really cramped and there's tons of flicker.

[EricDaNerd]

I
MUSHA: I really don't like this game very much, just don't like the designs and the movement very much.
care for it.

Don't worry. I can take that awful game off your hands.

[Mortificator]

I think Toaplan's horis came out of the transition to Genesis much better than their verts did.

[Kollision]

Yeah, Hellfire and Zero Wing are wonderful.
I haven't played Grind Stormer yet, but the only really weak Toaplan port on the Genesis for me is Twin Hawk / Daisenpu. It's just so... underwhelming. Twin Cobra is awesome. Extremely difficult, very underrated game.

[Limbrooke]

...the only really weak Toaplan port on the Genesis for me is Twin Hawk / Daisenpu. It's just so... underwhelming.

I'd replace underwhelming with 'doesn't translate well with regards to squashed screen'. It's a challenging game made even worse thanks to limited room against bosses. That and certain enemies are far stronger than in the arcade. Otherwise, I'd agree, not a good game in the long run.

The Grind Stormer port doesn't bother me too much although I haven't been compelled to play it much compared to my other Toaplan Genesis games and perhaps that says it all. Twin Cobra is ok but I could never choose it over the PS1 or MAME versions. Truxton is playable but again not as hard as arcade, yet still enjoyable. Fire Shark too but this I think pardon Slap Fight it is my favourite Toaplan Genesis/Mega Drive game. No real loss on the vertical space front and the game stays quite true and fun. It's a real classic.

The horizontal games I've spent very little time in, Hellfire to be sure, but from what I've seen from both, mainly Zero Wing, it's good stuff and doesn't feel insufficient. I only have Slap Fight, Fire Shark, Truxton, and Grind Stormer but I would like to get Zero Wing one day.

[toaplan_shmupfan]

Re: ThunderForce III
The attract mode actually gives away some of the hard parts of each of the stages, watch them carefully. Also, at least for Normal mode I recommend starting out with Gorgon and staying as low as possible along the rocks for the initial parts of that stage.

Re: Twin Cobra...

First, be aware that Twin Cobra was 1987 Toaplan and distributed in the US by Taito. Raiden was 1990 Seibukaihatsu and distributed in the US by Fabtek .

Now, the Genesis port of Twin Cobra was done by American Treco (apparently a division on American Sammy) and is a port of Kyukyoku Tiger. While US Twin Cobra had two player simulataneous play (red and blue helicopters), no checkpoints even in one player mode, and a faster helicopter speed vs. Kyukyoku Tiger... the slower helicopter speed, one player only mode, and checkpoints are immediately obvious differences.

Other key differences in the Genesis version include an obviously reduced color palette, a change to the way the green weapon fires, a wider blue spread weapon due to the screen adjustment, and that the screen adjustment makes some boss battles very difficult. In particular, Stage 5 and Stage 8 boss battles are very difficult due to not being able to hit missed ground cannons once the screen stops scrolling in stage 5, and having zero distance in front of the bottom boss tank in stage 8. (Therefore, one has to memorize just before the boss and start dropping bombs with the helicopter all the way up at the top of the screen before the enemies even appear). Thankfully, the stage 4 boss battle actually has a simplified shot pattern vs. the arcade of with the limited room it would have been difficult to avoid two jagged lines of shots from each of those with the smaller screen space.

It's also obvious that the music is arcade close, but the drums have obviously been remixed/redone. Finally, power up, weapon change, and bonus star sounds are less detailed than the arcade machine, and the shot sounds are completely muted.

(Still can't finish this game on one credit with the default of Hard A, even with rapid fire on.)

Re: Truxton...

In order to start the game as arcade close as possible, it is necessary to start the game right away at the second loop to avoid playing the first loop's simplified patterns. The easiest way to do this is with a Game Genie, and below is the procedure I figured out.

Start Genesis Truxton at near Arcade difficulty using a Game Genie:
1. Make sure the Game Genie switch is On, then enter code SANA-BJZY.
2. Start a new game (or wait until the demo mode starts).
3. The Round 1 ending will start after the game starts or the demo starts.
4. During the ending, switch the Game Genie power switch to Off.
5. After the ending is finished, the game will start on Round 2, Stage 1. (Note: if switch has been left On after the ending is finished, then additional endings will keep playing shortly after the next Round starts, until Game Over eventually occurs after the Round 5 ending is over.)

[ShmupSamurai]

A three way draw between Bio-Hazard Battle, Thunderforce II, and Thunderforce III.

Bio-Hazard Battle- Because I'm a sucker for bio-stuff like living ships, and my younger brother and I like blowing the $%@% of flying squids together(two-player mode was genius)

Thunderforce III- one word; 1990

Thunderforce II- The VERY FIRST shmup I ever owned and played, it makes up 40% of my childhood(the other 60% being Megaman)without it, I woudn't shmuping today.

[indutrial]

I actually never bothered to wheel out the old Genesis until around last Christmas and didn't try a single shmup for the system until earlier this year. In a way, I'm glad that I was as aloof as I was for so long, because every cart I've purchased for the thing is simply great fun. The first games I picked up were Truxton, Twin Cobra, and Fire Shark. All of them play pretty similarly, but they play wonderfully and feel refreshingly tough. One thing I particularly enjoy about them is how easy it is to forget the different enemy waves and bullet patterns. They keep you on your toes and the soundtracks are delightfully arcade-y. It's a shame that Truxton II and Vimana never got ported to anything.

I haven't played much in terms of horizontal games, although I've picked up copies of Sol-Deace, Hellfire, Whip Rush, and Gaiares for cheap. I only tried them a few times apiece (since I'm currently still hellbent on getting better at the vertical Toaplan games), but they all seem like they'll be very interesting, especially Hellfire.

[Deca]

Thunder Force 4 is definitely my favorite of the ones I have experience with. Great atmosphere, surprisingly fun gameplay for a horzie, and amazing parallax second only to RayForce.

I definitely need to check out more of the toaplan ports. I haven't done any serious gamehunting lately, this might give me some new targets and motivation

[Ed Oscuro]

E-Swat: City Under Fire is pretty cool

so is Atomic Robo Kid, because he's a robo

[stryc9]

Hellfire and Zero wing are classics, along with Thunderforce 2,3 and 4. Crying is good as is Gynoug.
PS Hellfire actually has an extra 'bomb' button not present in the arcade... I think...

[toaplan_shmupfan]

Crying/Bio-Hazard Battle is decent, though I think could have been better if the pod could be locked in position. Still, it's a decent challenge displaying some very good artwork for that system, and music isn't too bad too.

For Hellfire on the Genesis, there are six differences I can determine vs. the arcade videos I've seen on Youtube and the version I played on an Ultracade machine:

* No two player simultaneous play available on the Genesis version, just one player only.
* Checkpoints are used (however, the version I played on an Ultracade machine was instant respawn).
* The small chaser ship, I don't think that's in the arcade version as far as I can tell.
* The large fire laser definitely isn't in the arcade version.
* Bonus pickup icons are a constant 2000 points in the arcade version, while the bonus in the Genesis version starts at 40 points and steadiliy increases up to 10,000 points.
* Music is arcade close, but varies in instrumentation and is often a slower tempo versus the arcade version.

Unfortunately, there is also one annoying design issue in the game, regarding the music:

* Music noticeably slows down everytime the ship is firing and speeds up whenever the ship is not firing, so when using rapid fire just hold down the fire button at the start of each stage and never let up until the end of the stage.

Have not played Zero Wing or Gynoug.

[stryc9]

Dead right bout those differences in Genesis Hellfire. You know, it's games like this that convinced me the MD shat all over the SNES in the first place, for action games definitely. I always did think Axelay was overrated. By the way, with a name like Toaplan Shmupfan you owe it to yourself to find Zerowing. It rocks.

[indutrial]

Dead right bout those differences in Genesis Hellfire. You know, it's games like this that convinced me the MD shat all over the SNES in the first place, for action games definitely. I always did think Axelay was overrated. By the way, with a name like Toaplan Shmupfan you owe it to yourself to find Zerowing. It rocks.

The Genesis is clearly more appropriate for shooters than the SNES, but none of us are really in a position where we have to choose one over the other. I think shooting fans (and gamers in general) owe it to themselves to play as many different games on however many different systems they can get a hold of. While the SNES doesn't have any Toaplan titles, the Genesis doesn't have any Konami shooters, UN Squadron, or R-Type III. Neither of the two have one another's Darius entries. I'm happy owning a lot of games for both systems.

Axelay's gameplay could very well be overrated, but no Genesis cart could carry a soundtrack like that in a million years.

[gabrielesquaratti]

Just picked up a bunch more games for my Genesis, and a few others still on the way.

Thunder Force 3: Hard as balls and not terribly fun, but better than 2.

eeeeer HARD AS BALLS?

[To Far Away Times]

Thunderforce III for me. I love the pacing, having a powerful ship, fantastic music and strong visual design. It's an all around great game.

[BIL]

Loving all these fabulous bumps! MEXICAN POWER

TFIII can seem a lot harder than it ultimately is when you're just starting out, as that guy suggested he was. Most stages have at least a few nasty traps (Gorgon and Hades are loaded with them), and with the big hitbox, fast pace and often tight spaces it's easy to get killed, thrown back into the fray minus powerups and immediately killed again. If you were to hack in Gradius-style checkpoints it'd suddenly become quite a bitch. Take your lumps, learn the stages and soon enough the massive firepower will start smoothing things out, of course.

I've noticed more than a couple posters here dismayed by the game's misleading "EASEH AS FCK" rep upon picking it up themselves and finding resistance. A shame as the game's charm is that it's not a Sunday drive. It's a Sunday drive through biomechanical hell in a laseriffic deathchariot with great choons in the tape deck.

To add to Hellfire AC vs MD differences, the MD's resolution can't display the entire picture, instead going for wobble. This changes some bits like the end of stage 2, with the ceiling/floor crawler enemies. They're always onscreen in AC, you can only see one or the other on MD.

[LordHypnos]

Gotta love these 3 year old topics

I've had a bit of experience with Genesis shmups, mostly just playing a little bit of each of them on an emulator.
The ones that stood out most to me were: Elemental Master, Thunderforce IV, Fire Shark
I liked these ones mostly due to pacing, I think. They're all fairly fast paced for the time, and were just a lot of fun perhaps. Elemental Master also has the best music of any shmup ever (or at least somewhere near the top. Same with most Technosoft stuff)

Ones that I didn't like as much as I expected included: TFIII, mostly because it seemed so much harder than people claim. I couldn't make it past Gorgon. Come to think of it, though, i didn't get all that far in TFIV, either. I did kind of assume that TFIII is mostly hard due to having to memorize shit, and would get a lot easier if you did that. How memorizey is TFIV for a Genesis shmup by the way? I've been wondering this.
MUSHA: I couldn't understand what was going on with my weapons, and the visibility was low. Probably a lot more fun once you get the hang of the weapons system, but how do people deal with the visibility of enemies and projectiles? Definately nice music.
Truxton: This was just way too hard for me. I couldn't get past the first level. I love the bomb though. Overall, it seems like the gameplay is pretty solid, and it doesn't seem like it would have the annoying powerup dodging element that Fire Shark has, but the first level, anyway, seemed way too long. Plus, I think first levels should be fairly easy in shmups.

There were a lot that I didn't ever try either (Biohazard Battle, especially, looks interesting), and I probably haven't really spent adequate time with any of them.

A few general observations include: Toaplan games are awesome. They seem miles ahead of any others in terms of visibility of enemies and projectiles, and nothing quite feels cheap (although they get kind of unpleasantly claustrophobic at times). Raiden Trad is also cool, but feels a little less fair. Fire Shark is kind of enigmatic, because it has a lot of characteristics that I really dislike in games of this era: Dive bombing enemies, hard to recover from death due to lost power ups, the stupid green powerups that you have to dodge, but it still really stands out as one of the best of the time.

EDIT: also, someone earlier was saying that Twin Cobra is a Raiden rip off, it's actually the other way around, Raiden is quite explicitly, actually, influenced heavily by TC. Also, Grindstormer was not influenced by Donpachi/Dodonpachi, it's the other way around. Probably were designed by many of the same programmers / artists, as Cave was partly formed by former Toaplan employees. The original arcade release of Grindstromer / V.V was 1993 or thereabouts.

[Kobayashi]

M.U.S.H.A