Deathsmiles IIX (Xbox 360) - GoD US/Can/Mex, Platinum JP

[Taylor]

Arcade is so much harder. All rank 3 and extra on IIX would be really easy if it wasn't for Santa's first few patterns.

I'm still not feeling DSIIX though.

[dan76]

I've been mainly playing arcade mode and haven't found it to difficult. The bosses can be tricky - going into power up takes them down a lot faster. Throw in the odd bomb and it's over pretty quick. This sacrifices scoring though because you have to build up your counter from scratch at the start of the next level.

I can't get into x-mode, mainly because I find those blue bullets a pain - that and the 16:9 screen.

[msm]

i think i was just expecting it to be easier with all the comments about how easy it is. still finding arcade hard, but at least not dying on the first boss any more.

I can't get into x-mode, mainly because I find those blue bullets a pain - that and the 16:9 screen.

you may well already know this but you can get rid of the blue bullets by using lock shot, they were annoying me till i noticed that anyway

[-Bridget-]

Wow, Rei's first choice ending is just...disturbing.

More like delicious.

Now I really want to play DSIIX. My copy can't come soon enough.

I've just seen this ending myself.

"Delicious" indeed. That just totally made my whole week. Loved it!



And the game is great, too. I dont really see where all the complaining is coming from... enjoying IIX mode myself once I figured everything out... but then, what am I thinking, this is the shmups forum, there's ALWAYS complaining....

EDIT: And I'm enjoying it even more once I figured out just how to make the "sperm bullets" appear; somehow I hadnt seen them before. Hadnt occurred to me to hold the button down, haha. And once I figured out how the laser gauge works (is what the game calls it, I think). I am always playing at level 3 though, which is actually challenging. I still think the ability to switch the levels at anytime is strange, just like with the first game.

[MachineAres 1CC]

So have they specified when this patch is supposed to arrive and if they're also fixing DS1 at the same time? The No More Heroes patch a few weeks ago just kinda came unexpectedly one day, I dunno if CAVE is being a little more informative about this ahead of time.

[TaygetaVendetta]

I am always playing at level 3 though, which is actually challenging.

Pick Follett or (to a lesser extent) Rosa and it is overwhelmingly easier. Any of the other characters and its a bit more even, though still a major step down from the first DS' difficulty level.

So have they specified when this patch is supposed to arrive and if they're also fixing DS1 at the same time? The No More Heroes patch a few weeks ago just kinda came unexpectedly one day, I dunno if CAVE is being a little more informative about this ahead of time.

The DSIIX patch should be up in Mid June according to the Cave Blog. Its been a while since the last update on the status of DS 1.1's patch, I believe the last thing they said is that its going through certification and we should wait a while?

[Rebel Ninja]

How does arrange mode work then? I watched the promotional video on it, but it would be nice if someone could provide a written description.

[Kiken]

How does arrange mode work then? I watched the promotional video on it, but it would be nice if someone could provide a written description.

Arrange Mode adds a Familiar Throw button. Holding down the FT button causes the familiar to move outward and then in a circle around your character (either clockwise or counterclockwise). While moving, it soaks up any bullets that it comes in contact with, adding points to your counter. So you basically spend the entire game mode in Fever, constantly sweeping your familiar in front of you, absorbing every single bullet thrown out.

Think of a Takumi game with zero Reflect Force recharge time.

So have they specified when this patch is supposed to arrive and if they're also fixing DS1 at the same time? The No More Heroes patch a few weeks ago just kinda came unexpectedly one day, I dunno if CAVE is being a little more informative about this ahead of time.

The DSIIX patch should be up in Mid June according to the Cave Blog. Its been a while since the last update on the status of DS 1.1's patch, I believe the last thing they said is that its going through certification and we should wait a while?

The DS 1.1 patch came out ages ago... hence why we can play MBL 1.1. If you're refering to the current error in displaying the achievements, that's a server problem and is all on Microsoft's end. Cave have stated that at this point it's out of their hands.

[Rebel Ninja]

How does arrange mode work then? I watched the promotional video on it, but it would be nice if someone could provide a written description.

Arrange Mode adds a Familiar Throw button. Holding down the FT button causes the familiar to move outward and then in a circle around your character (either clockwise or counterclockwise). While moving, it soaks up any bullets that it comes in contact with, adding points to your counter. So you basically spend the entire game mode in Fever, constantly sweeping your familiar in front of you, absorbing every single bullet thrown out.

Think of a Takumi game with zero Reflect Force recharge time.

So how do you get the skulls that recharge your fever meter? I have swung the familiar around absorbing bullets (while in fever mode), but it seems really random as to when I can actually get the skulls to appear.

[Kiken]

So how do you get the skulls that recharge your fever meter? I have swung the familiar around absorbing bullets (while in fever mode), but it seems really random as to when I can actually get the skulls to appear.

The red flashing ones? I believe that they get triggered by sweeping over suicide bullets.

[iluvmonsterz]

where is the detail in these games? it seems as though all they care about is pretty flashing lights and enourmous bullet counters...plain looking backgrounds and giant chess peices??? couldnt look any more boring...i m not as excited as i once was..

[AraraSPAMWitch]

where is the detail in these games? it seems as though all they care about is pretty flashing lights and enourmous bullet counters...plain looking backgrounds and giant chess peices??? couldnt look any more boring...i m not as excited as i once was..

To be fair, if you're playing well there will be so much stuff flying around onscreen that the backgrounds will be hardly visible.

But I definitely think the backgrounds and enemies for the final stage is a step down from the first game's castle stage, which was definitely the high point for the game. Overall the stages are pretty boring visually, but like I said it can be hard to notice when you're playing and I think the ring-collecting euphoria makes up for it.

[iluvmonsterz]

sounds like a cheap way out to me...i live for the detailed back grounds of caves and psykios glory days.

[spadgy]

I just got the 'All on lvl 3 + EX' 1CC, and it while it challenged a medicore player like me a little, I still got it on something like my third try of doing everything on lvl 3. Like Taylor said, it's only really Santa's first form that really pushes it. So yeah - now I'm feel a tiny bit more qualified to berate the lowered difficulty, but the more time I put into X-mode, the more fun I have. It doesn't need to get any harder by the end - just get a little harder earlier in the level structure, regardless of the order you choose.

I also finally beat my glitch-created score legitimately... when I was playing offline.

[MachineAres 1CC]

How does arrange mode work then? I watched the promotional video on it, but it would be nice if someone could provide a written description.

Arrange Mode adds a Familiar Throw button. Holding down the FT button causes the familiar to move outward and then in a circle around your character (either clockwise or counterclockwise). While moving, it soaks up any bullets that it comes in contact with, adding points to your counter. So you basically spend the entire game mode in Fever, constantly sweeping your familiar in front of you, absorbing every single bullet thrown out.

It doesn't necessarily swirl around you, it actually travels differently for each character, for example Rosa's just goes straight forward and then comes back, almost like a boomerang.

So have they specified when this patch is supposed to arrive and if they're also fixing DS1 at the same time? The No More Heroes patch a few weeks ago just kinda came unexpectedly one day, I dunno if CAVE is being a little more informative about this ahead of time.

The DSIIX patch should be up in Mid June according to the Cave Blog. Its been a while since the last update on the status of DS 1.1's patch, I believe the last thing they said is that its going through certification and we should wait a while?

The DS 1.1 patch came out ages ago... hence why we can play MBL 1.1. If you're refering to the current error in displaying the achievements, that's a server problem and is all on Microsoft's end. Cave have stated that at this point it's out of their hands.

Sounds like a cop-out from Cave.

[TaygetaVendetta]

The DS 1.1 patch came out ages ago... hence why we can play MBL 1.1. If you're refering to the current error in displaying the achievements, that's a server problem and is all on Microsoft's end. Cave have stated that at this point it's out of their hands.

Ya, I was talking about the achievements not working. A title update has to go up for them to work. If Cave submitted the update to MS and it passed certification, we should already have it. Either they found a problem with it and haven't put it up or something is wrong.

[-Bridget-]

I am always playing at level 3 though, which is actually challenging.

Pick Follett or (to a lesser extent) Rosa and it is overwhelmingly easier. Any of the other characters and its a bit more even, though still a major step down from the first DS' difficulty level.

So have they specified when this patch is supposed to arrive and if they're also fixing DS1 at the same time? The No More Heroes patch a few weeks ago just kinda came unexpectedly one day, I dunno if CAVE is being a little more informative about this ahead of time.

The DSIIX patch should be up in Mid June according to the Cave Blog. Its been a while since the last update on the status of DS 1.1's patch, I believe the last thing they said is that its going through certification and we should wait a while?

Yeah, I'd heard that about Follett and Rosa, so I havent used them. I've pretty much just focused on Lei so far, and to a lesser extent, Windia. I am glad though that the scoreboards for Xmode are seperated by character also instead of just one big mashup.


I know what some people say about this mode, but I really sometimes wonder if people dont give certain things enough of a chance. Seriously, the only other game recently that I've enjoyed this much is Ketsui, because it's Ketsui and therefore epic.

The game is very obviously not about survival. If you just wanna survive, you can beat it without TOO much trouble, though some of the boss patterns are very interesting indeed.

But what gets me about this mode is the scoring system. To be honest, I love it. It took alot of experimenting to fully understand all of it... there was alot more to it than it originally seemed... but the big thing about it that really grabs me is how the challenge really just ramps up the better I do.

I'm no stranger to hard games, and I'm no newbie when it comes to shmups. I've had a couple of Cave 1cc's in my shmupping career so far, and one of those was Ultra from the first Mushi. And I say, this can get pretty blasted mean, if I'm really scoring well.

The better I get, the more crap is flying around the screen (both the blue chaser shots and the orange "sperm" bullets), chasing me through bullet patterns, and just generally making everything totally looney; alot of risk-VS-reward here, which is something I look for in any really good scoring system. And I've found that, as tactics go for scoring well, it's not as simple as it originally looked, and there's always opportunity to get even better (currently my highest score, with Lei, is about 5 billion)

But I also do like that the survival difficulty isnt particularly high, for one important reason: it means that a couple of people I know that are still new to shmups, but trying to get better, can get into this particular game without TOO much trouble. And the difficulty will ramp up along with their improvement. Something like Futari or Ketsui is just too much for them right now, but this is perfect, same with the original Deathsmiles.

Not that I dont like Arcade mode, mind you, cause I do. I love the heck outta the entire game, to be honest. But I like Xmode a bit more.

I'll be glad when they patch the game, though. The idea of glitched scores just bugs the crap outta me.

I'd also like to say, the boss at the end of the haunted mansion, that big tall dude, is the best freaking boss ever. I was laughing so hard the first time I fought him. "MMMMMMMEEEHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!". The attack patterns there are rather neat, too.

[Elixir]

I posted some impressions about DS II X on my blog a few days ago over here.

If you don't want to read it: I'm basically disappointed by the art, availability, difficulty, bosses, and balance of characters. The game feels weak but accessible to people who don't main shmups or play them often.

[dan76]

I think the key to enjoying DSII is to view x-mode and arrange in the same way as as Futari/Galuda II's extra modes. They're diversions. The main mode is arcade mode - which Cave obviously fudged, and they themselves may not think of it as such... but it is. This is because the difficulty, scoring and balance are so much better in this mode. It's a challenge to 1CC, the scoring is a joy and none of the characters are particularly overpowered - Supe seems to take down bosses faster but is more difficult to score well with.

I've had it in my J360 since it arrived, Ketsui hasn't been played much... Yes the graphics are pants and the screen displays are dumb, and I was thinking that Cave had dropped the ball on this one - but no. I'm kind of lovin' it.

Anyone going to start a hi score table?

[AraraSPAMWitch]

I'd also like to say, the boss at the end of the haunted mansion, that big tall dude, is the best freaking boss ever. I was laughing so hard the first time I fought him. "MMMMMMMEEEHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!". The attack patterns there are rather neat, too.

I hate that boss so damn much. He won't shut the hell up, he won't stop talking, he runs like a nerd, fuck him!

I'm basically disappointed by the art, availability, difficulty, bosses, and balance of characters.

Not going to argue over other points, because you're right on a lot of them, but character balance in shooting games is even less important than balance in a fighting game and is therefore COMPLETELY MEANINGLESS. What is far more important is having varied and distinct characters, which I would say this game has. If you're playing for score, you will always have character-specific scoreboards, meaning you can always get a high score with a low potential character (if you're gunning for a top spot overall you kind of have to choose the best in almost any game, so I don't see why that would even be an issue), and if you're playing for mere survival, every character will give you a different experience. Some of those experiences will be easier than others', and if a player is forced to choose the easy experience every time than that seems more like his problem.

Really enjoying Arcade mode, despite its shitty display options and lack of online leaderboards/replays/everything that would make sense in a 360 shooter. durango, I thought about doing a scoreboard, but it would only be for Arcade mode since X-mode has that glitch and Arrange mode is fucking stupid. But I'm a lazy sonofabitch, probably won't happen.

[Elixir]

Not going to argue over other points, because you're right on a lot of them, but character balance in shooting games is even less important than balance in a fighting game and is therefore COMPLETELY MEANINGLESS.

It's meaningful for quite a few reasons, actually. "Character specific" leaderboards aren't really cared for. Cave didn't add these characters to better the game, but to make people come back. There is a massive gap between Follett and everyone else, and some of the characters like Casper and Supe just outright suck. Why have 6 characters in a game when only 1 or 2 of them is worth using?

What it comes down to in the end is poor balancing and lack of effort.

[TaygetaVendetta]

and some of the characters like Casper and Supe just outright suck.

I'm glad I wasn't missing something with Casper. All of her attacks seem weak as hell and her movement speed isn't all that grand either. I didn't mess around with her lock shot that much, so I thought maybe it was really powerful to makeup for the weak other shots, but I guess not.

[-Bridget-]

Not going to argue over other points, because you're right on a lot of them, but character balance in shooting games is even less important than balance in a fighting game and is therefore COMPLETELY MEANINGLESS.

It's meaningful for quite a few reasons, actually. "Character specific" leaderboards aren't really cared for. Cave didn't add these characters to better the game, but to make people come back. There is a massive gap between Follett and everyone else, and some of the characters like Casper and Supe just outright suck. Why have 6 characters in a game when only 1 or 2 of them is worth using?

What it comes down to in the end is poor balancing and lack of effort.

They might not be cared for, but character specific leaderboards are still important in this sort of game.

This isnt a fighting game. These characters can be as unbalanced as Cave wants them to be. And I could see it being done on purpose; some characters are very easy to use, but others are for more advanced players that want more of a challenge.

Shiki 2 is a good example. That's a PS2 game, and therefore does not have scoreboards, but if it did, they'd NEED to be seperated by character. The main character... I forget his name, he summons that spirit that zooms around and smashes things... can score WAY easier than anyone else in the game BECAUSE of the spirit. He's very clearly a character made for beginners. Whereas I use that dude with the hat... who is clearly NOT made for beginners, and is MUCH harder to score with. The scoring potential is totally different for the characters. Putting them on the same board without having character-specific boards would be bloody stupid.

As such, I'm glad there are specific boards for this game. I dont want to have to use Follett just because everyone else does. My favorite character is Lei of course, and I'm bloody well gonna use him, because I want to, not because of scoring potential or power level. The seperated boards give me a chance to compare my scores to other players that use him, and are thus dealing with the exact same scoring potential throughout the game.

[Elixir]

They might not be cared for, but character specific leaderboards are still important in this sort of game.

This isnt a fighting game. These characters can be as unbalanced as Cave wants them to be. And I could see it being done on purpose; some characters are very easy to use, but others are for more advanced players that want more of a challenge.

Why are we even mentioning fighting games here? Let me just start off by saying that Follett still takes skill in order to be used effectively. Her shot combined with her option does the most damage though, which also makes her the easiest to use.

Shiki 2 is a good example. That's a PS2 game, and therefore does not have scoreboards, but if it did, they'd NEED to be seperated by character. The main character... I forget his name, he summons that spirit that zooms around and smashes things... can score WAY easier than anyone else in the game BECAUSE of the spirit. He's very clearly a character made for beginners. Whereas I use that dude with the hat... who is clearly NOT made for beginners, and is MUCH harder to score with. The scoring potential is totally different for the characters. Putting them on the same board without having character-specific boards would be bloody stupid.

The world records for Shikigami II beg to differ. By the way, the highest score isn't done with Koutarou.

As such, I'm glad there are specific boards for this game. I dont want to have to use Follett just because everyone else does. My favorite character is Lei of course, and I'm bloody well gonna use him, because I want to, not because of scoring potential or power level. The seperated boards give me a chance to compare my scores to other players that use him, and are thus dealing with the exact same scoring potential throughout the game.

As covered in my blog entry--it's this kind of attitude which the port caters to. If you want to use Lei, I'd recommend sticking with Arcade.

[adversity1]

Not going to argue over other points, because you're right on a lot of them, but character balance in shooting games is even less important than balance in a fighting game and is therefore COMPLETELY MEANINGLESS.

It's meaningful for quite a few reasons, actually. "Character specific" leaderboards aren't really cared for. Cave didn't add these characters to better the game, but to make people come back. There is a massive gap between Follett and everyone else, and some of the characters like Casper and Supe just outright suck. Why have 6 characters in a game when only 1 or 2 of them is worth using?

What it comes down to in the end is poor balancing and lack of effort.

Curious what you thought about character balance in the first Deathsmiles.

[Elixir]

Curious what you thought about character balance in the first Deathsmiles.

I thought it was perfectly fine, but I was put off by how a lot of the characters operated. If we don't include the very early arcade releases. Probably something like Rosa > Follett > Windia > Casper but the WRs all come close to each other. There was no overall "best" character, except for Follett in the damage department.

[chempop]

This seems like a pointless argument to me. I think it is obvious that the characters are unbalanced on purpose. Experienced players can add challenge by picking the weaker characters. I'm also assuming that there are achievements for all-clearing with each character, so for achievement whores that gives another reason to play as Casper.

Sure it might be preferred if they all had strengths and weaknesses, but that is not the case here - so deal.

[Elixir]

"Cave deliberately made the characters unbalanced to give the game more depth!!!"

Oh please.

[ncp]

Well, I don't think Cave is so blind that they would think the characters were balanced. It's hard to believe it's not intentional, to me. I don't think it's really a good thing, though. Seems like a cop-out, a lazy way to make "selectable difficulties" without having to change the actual stages...

[-Bridget-]

They might not be cared for, but character specific leaderboards are still important in this sort of game.

This isnt a fighting game. These characters can be as unbalanced as Cave wants them to be. And I could see it being done on purpose; some characters are very easy to use, but others are for more advanced players that want more of a challenge.

Why are we even mentioning fighting games here? Let me just start off by saying that Follett still takes skill in order to be used effectively. Her shot combined with her option does the most damage though, which also makes her the easiest to use.

Shiki 2 is a good example. That's a PS2 game, and therefore does not have scoreboards, but if it did, they'd NEED to be seperated by character. The main character... I forget his name, he summons that spirit that zooms around and smashes things... can score WAY easier than anyone else in the game BECAUSE of the spirit. He's very clearly a character made for beginners. Whereas I use that dude with the hat... who is clearly NOT made for beginners, and is MUCH harder to score with. The scoring potential is totally different for the characters. Putting them on the same board without having character-specific boards would be bloody stupid.

The world records for Shikigami II beg to differ. By the way, the highest score isn't done with Koutarou.

As such, I'm glad there are specific boards for this game. I dont want to have to use Follett just because everyone else does. My favorite character is Lei of course, and I'm bloody well gonna use him, because I want to, not because of scoring potential or power level. The seperated boards give me a chance to compare my scores to other players that use him, and are thus dealing with the exact same scoring potential throughout the game.

As covered in my blog entry--it's this kind of attitude which the port caters to. If you want to use Lei, I'd recommend sticking with Arcade.

First of all, Shiki 2, I merely used as an example because it was the first thing to pop into my head. There's ALL SORTS of shmups that work that way. I dont care whatsoever who has the world records with who; the point still stands, the characters still have different scoring potential. That's why I find seperated boards useful.

And I'm sure Follett takes plenty of skill to use. I mentioned her because I keep hearing "ZOMG she's broken" whereever I look (not necessarily on this forum).


Anyway, I spent some time experimenting with Arcade myself, trying to learn the reasons for all of the preference to it, and....

....yeah, I'm not seeing it here. First of all, in terms of survival, this isnt any harder (all level 3, again). I dont think it's any harder anyway, others may find different. I noticed less slowdown, but... this isnt Futari, this is Deathsmiles. It didnt change the difficulty of the patterns for me; probably this is due to my very fast reaction speed, which is likely to lead to me crashing into bullets LESS in Arcade than in X because instead of trying to react overly fast to something that isnt moving fast, I'll be reacting to things that are moving at a matching speed, if that makes any sense. This tends to happen to me in alot of shmups, to be honest. Throw a complicated pattern at me slowly and I just might stupidly crash into it; throw it at me faster, as in without the slowdown, and I'm probably not going to get hit.

And the scoring system is DIFFERENT, yes, but... frankly, I wouldnt say either of them are better. Experimenting with Arcade, I'm not having any more trouble learning it than X-mode. I understand the basic ideas behind scoring well here, after seeing some vids, and it really just isnt all that hard to do (as opposed to the first game, where I really just wasnt much good at it... dunno why that is). I like BOTH of them. Instead of complaining about one, I'll probably keep up with both of them somewhat equally.

Either way, I'll step out of this topic at this point, I think, and leave the arguing to the rest of you. I agree with Chempop in that of the arguements are for the most part bloody pointless. Heck, the only reason I joined in at all is because I'm hotheaded and I've been really, REALLY bored the last few days due to craptastic weather. Gaming is great and all, but I gotta be able to get OUT of here or I go crazy.

So yeah.... you all have fun with that... I'll go have fun playing the game instead.