Japan and lolis...what's with this exactly?

[evil_ash_xero]

Haven't you already made like 5 of these threads, evil_ash_xero?

I don't think so, no.

[evil_ash_xero]

I'm sure Elixir could shed some light on this topic.

Not really. Could you shed some light on why Americans are obsessed with grotesque violence and gore? Probably not.

Well, in all fairness, so are the Japanese.

[sven666]

If we didn't all have Jesus breathing down our necks pedo's would probably be coming out of the woodwork here too.

lulz, read the news lateley? we have tons of pedophiles coming out of the woodwork and surprise surprise theyre nearly all affiliated with the church

[adversity1]

If we didn't all have Jesus breathing down our necks

Hot Jesus sex?

Yes but did you have any competition whatsoever?

If you mean from the J guy side, not so much.

[jonny5]

Not really. Could you shed some light on why Americans are obsessed with grotesque violence and gore? Probably not.

You mad?

No. It was a serious question that you probably don't know the answer to.

have you never seen any of the live action stuff coming out of japan(and asia in general)?

any gore and grotesque violence coming out of the west is kids stuff comparatively....

you need to watch some japanese horror shit dude

i can give examples if you would like.....

[Elixir]

So I ask why America is obsessed with violence in general and I'm being told that Japan is also obsessed with violence. Not really the explanation I expected, that's more or less saying "well that other country does it too so it's perfectly acceptable!". In that case the lolita fashion is perfectly acceptable! And America should start taking up on it. Do you see how this explanation doesn't help?

So if we reverse the topic at hand and take a real response, we get "it's badass". Killing is badass, spoken right out of an American's point of view. Killing something makes you feel superior, right? You want to feel superior by continually destroying buildings/aliens/humans, right? That's called a superiority complex. FPS games aren't popular in Japan, right? Well.. no need to bring up Japan's inferiority complex.

As for the lolita thing.. I'm assuming it's because it's much easier to get attached to something with no obligations, deterioration or influence on. But if we reverse the situation again; it's influencing people by sending the message that finding girls of any age sexually attractive is acceptable. The games that cater to it (no, not like deathsmiles) are more likely to prevent pedophilia if someone has an alternative, legal way - much like how (I'm just picking a random game, here) Counterstrike's an outlet to a small percentage who would otherwise kill in real life.

Sometimes these wires get crossed and people are heavily influenced to the point of imitating games, though. Like the Rapelay thing, even though Japan's current rape statistics are among the lowest in the world.

At least, that's how I see it. Both obsessions are just as silly as each other, but the benefits tend to overrule in the end.

heh, let's release Rapelay in Canada and see the rape percentages get halved

[jonny5]

So I ask why America is obsessed with violence in general and I'm being told that Japan is also obsessed with violence. Not really the explanation I expected, that's more or less saying "well that other country does it too so it's perfectly acceptable!". In that case the lolita fashion is perfectly acceptable! And America should start taking up on it. Do you see how this explanation doesn't help?

So if we reverse the topic at hand and take a real response, we get "it's badass". Killing is badass, spoken right out of an American's point of view. Killing something makes you feel superior, right? You want to feel superior by continually destroying buildings/aliens/humans, right? That's called a superiority complex. FPS games aren't popular in Japan, right? Well.. no need to bring up Japan's inferiority complex.

As for the lolita thing.. I'm assuming it's because it's much easier to get attached to something with no obligations, deterioration or influence on. But if we reverse the situation again; it's influencing people by sending the message that finding girls of any age sexually attractive is acceptable. The games that cater to it (no, not like deathsmiles) are more likely to prevent pedophilia if someone has an alternative, legal way - much like how (I'm just picking a random game, here) Counterstrike's an outlet to a small percentage who would otherwise kill in real life.

Sometimes these wires get crossed and people are heavily influenced to the point of imitating games, though. Like the Rapelay thing, even though Japan's current rape statistics are among the lowest in the world.

At least, that's how I see it. Both obsessions are just as silly as each other, but the benefits tend to overrule in the end.

heh, let's release Rapelay in Canada and see the rape percentages get halved

sorry man....i wasnt actually trying to answer your question....i was just commenting...i thought it odd to point out america's(or the west in general)fixation with violence and gore as a counterpoint considering japans take on that....

stuff coming out of asia is 1000X more over the top, and where most of the western stuff is for shock value, the asian stuff is often downright disturbing

again...just a side comment and not meant to answer your question

and im not american btw , same way you arent australian....[/heckle]

[Matsunaga]

Obsession with little girls is not acceptable in this country. Anyone who is should rot in prison.

[jonny5]

Obsession with little girls is not acceptable in this country. Anyone who is should rot in prison.

obsession with non-living animated characters is not harming anything or anyone....

as long as stuff remains fantasy, there is nothing wrong...it might seem odd, and im certainly not saying i condone the stuff. but to each there own....

i like over the top realistic gore flicks and ultra-violence....but im not going out and attacking people with swords and shit...same shit

[ncp]

Obsession with little girls is not acceptable in this country. Anyone who is should rot in prison.

Why?

Just because you're sexually attracted to something doesn't mean you pose a threat. Only if you are a rapist, and shouldn't ALL rapists be thrown in prison... ?

That's not even taking into account the fact that little anime girls and real little girls are entirely different attractions.

[evil_ash_xero]

I think being attracted to teenage girls is totally natural. I mean, around 15 and 16, they're pretty frickin' hot, and are hard to tell from 18 year olds.

It's the pre-pubescent stuff I find a bit peculiar. And i'm just curious. I'm not saying anything about it. It just seems like it's "big in Japan", and I just wondered why.

[CIT]

The Wikipedia article on this topic is quite good and a helpful starting point if you want to check out some of the scientific writing examining it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lolicon

[antron]

the US Supreme Court threw out an anti virtual child porn law. they argued that there is no evidence that this will lead to crime that has victims (real child porn, rape).

i think it's just a matter of time before we have that evidence.

@xero
when did japan outlaw child prostitution? if you really want to get to the bottom of this do some research.

[ncp]

do you want violent virtual media banned too?

ps

13 yog

[antron]

do you want violent virtual media banned too?

if it doesn't causes significantly more violence then no.

if it does, we must weigh that.

[oli_lar]

I think being attracted to teenage girls is totally natural. I mean, around 15 and 16, they're pretty frickin' hot, and are hard to tell from 18 year olds.

It's the pre-pubescent stuff I find a bit peculiar. And i'm just curious. I'm not saying anything about it. It just seems like it's "big in Japan", and I just wondered why.

I'd agree, to a degree, don't like 15-16 year old girls (I like some booty on mine!) but 18-19 years are considered the prime years hence girls at that age are envied by older women. Remember that naturally the human lifespan is around 40 years old. Liking pre-pubescent girls is weird though - people should be attracted once sexual maturity has been gained, as in the wild.

Thinking about it, don't most female anime characters have massive tits? Wouldn't that contradict the age.

[Matsunaga]

Being attracted to little girls could lead someone into dangerous territory.. A guy at my work was recently busted for child porn, so this is a big issue for me right now.

[Skykid]

come on man....they have to censor genitalia...different culture=different taboos

The censorship of genitalia was a law imposed by the US of A.

i dunno man...i think it really just comes down to this:

they draw the distinction between reality and animated fantasy....

i really dont think its a 'big deal' there on a whole in day to day culture.....

It really comes down to adults who are sexually aroused by the sight of infants, regardless of an inability to distinguish fantasy and reality.

[Ganelon]

Please get your facts straight: the US has never had genitalia censorship as a requirement (except on network TV, where upper body is also prohibited). The censoring was done because of Japan's laws. In fact, some hentai games had their pixelization censoring removed in the uncensored US versions. The only thing that needs to be changed in the US is that all girls become 18 years old to satisfy the strictest states' ages of consent.

The Supreme Court made a wise decision (outside of the "ultra-conservative" judges that bafflingly didn't adhere to actual conservative ideals and instead wrote up nonsense about technology they didn't understand). It's sickening how policians try to nose their way into everything; hypocrisy at its best.

Can you imagine the slippery slope if that anti virtual child porn act was legitimized? Some idiotic religious zealots would have a field day censoring games and other possible forms of non-realistic media (polygonal films, music, even books) for their propensity to spur on illegal actions. That would be the end of free America as we know it.

I prefer mature women myself but can't see why people are prevented from others based off enjoy what they want. In real life, it's possible someone will be traumatized (though really, the age should be lower; if a 15-year old doesn't understand the potential ramifications, it's more incompetence than naivete). In porn form, no harm (unless obtained without the teen's consent). I'm with the ACLU in preventing censorship of any kind. I wish folks would keep their bizarre moral standards to themselves and away from the land of the free.

And back to the main topic, I don't hate loli because it represents children but rather because the art doesn't appeal to me in any way and is squeezing out more traditional anime styles nowadays. I don't want to see underage porn not because it's deemed illegal by my judicial system but rather because it's thoroughly uninteresting.

[CIT]

come on man....they have to censor genitalia...different culture=different taboos

The censorship of genitalia was a law imposed by the US of A.

This is not true, actually. The censorship laws regarding obscene materials have been in place since before WW2.

[Skykid]

Please get your facts straight: the US has never had genitalia censorship as a requirement (except on network TV, where upper body is also prohibited). The censoring was done because of Japan's laws. In fact, some hentai games had their pixelization censoring removed in the uncensored US versions.

Ok, sorry, probably thinking of something else I read somewhere that sounded similar to do with laws brought in by the US after the WW2 collapse.

[jonny5]

come on man....they have to censor genitalia...different culture=different taboos

The censorship of genitalia was a law imposed by the US of A.

i dunno man...i think it really just comes down to this:

they draw the distinction between reality and animated fantasy....

i really dont think its a 'big deal' there on a whole in day to day culture.....

It really comes down to adults who are sexually aroused by the sight of infants, regardless of an inability to distinguish fantasy and reality.

i dont wanna argue this to much because im in agreement with you....i dont think its cool at all, but at the same time i dont see animated fantasy as harmful, unless an individual decides to go beyond fantasy and make these thoughts a reality....

its a fine line....

i just dont really see the whole loli/hentai thing being a widespread phenomenon there....if im wrong, please let me know....just to me, i see this as being acceptable to a certain social group, and the rest have to tolerate it as its technically not illegal

its there, but not necessarily universally embraced as a great thing....just like many things in western culture

i will agree though.....a lot of this stuff really does defy reason or explanation.....

[Skykid]

i just dont really see the whole loli/hentai thing being a widespread phenomenon there....if im wrong, please let me know....just to me, i see this as being acceptable to a certain social group, and the rest have to tolerate it as its technically not illegal.

Well as a visitor rather than resident, I found it easy to stumble on such material (without trying I should add) in bookstores and the geek haven that is Akihabara. On my second visit I got to see a store of photographic material rather than illustrative, owing to the humour of my guide - not sure how much that was in terms of harmless fantasy, but I hope that kid got to eat the banana after she had it wedged between her thighs.

[jonny5]

i just dont really see the whole loli/hentai thing being a widespread phenomenon there....if im wrong, please let me know....just to me, i see this as being acceptable to a certain social group, and the rest have to tolerate it as its technically not illegal.

Well as a visitor rather than resident, I found it easy to stumble on such material (without trying I should add) in bookstores and the geek haven that is Akihabara. On my second visit I got to see a store of photographic material rather than illustrative, owing to the humour of my guide - not sure how much that was in terms of harmless fantasy, but I hope that kid got to eat the banana after she had it wedged between her thighs.

whoa.....creepy.....where was this?

like was it an 'underground' or illegal type store? like back alley shit?

it would be pretty shocking if this was a legit store front

hmmmm....if i ever make it to japan(eventually) i really hope to avoid those kinds of places....i dont need that kind of imagery floating around in my head....

[Skykid]

i just dont really see the whole loli/hentai thing being a widespread phenomenon there....if im wrong, please let me know....just to me, i see this as being acceptable to a certain social group, and the rest have to tolerate it as its technically not illegal.

Well as a visitor rather than resident, I found it easy to stumble on such material (without trying I should add) in bookstores and the geek haven that is Akihabara. On my second visit I got to see a store of photographic material rather than illustrative, owing to the humour of my guide - not sure how much that was in terms of harmless fantasy, but I hope that kid got to eat the banana after she had it wedged between her thighs.

whoa.....creepy.....where was this?

like was it an 'underground' or illegal type store? like back alley shit?

it would be pretty shocking if this was a legit store front

hmmmm....if i ever make it to japan(eventually) i really hope to avoid those kinds of places....i dont need that kind of imagery floating around in my head....

It made me laugh actually, pretty out there stuff.
Don't worry, I don't think you'll stumble on Akiba's pedo emporium too easy, it was round one of the back streets, a corner store and you had to go up loads of flights of steps before arriving at nicely produced, glossy colour magazines and a rack of used schoolkids clothes (male and female.)

Anyway, I love Japan so I can't bash it too much, but I can't condone the degree of openness when it comes to sexual child exploitation - of which the Lolita craze is just another offshoot.
I do agree that an illustrative form appears to serve a purpose, but some of it is so twisted it would be a little silly not to think it could give people bad ideas about abusing the actual flesh and bone. In fact I'd bet money there's plenty of that going on there too.

[jonny5]

i certainly hope i dont find anything like that.....i would most likely flip the fuck out

[dcharlie]

like was it an 'underground' or illegal type store? like back alley shit?

it would be pretty shocking if this was a legit store front

there is a 6 floor building next to the main street Messe Sanoh. This used to hold 2 games stores and 1 "Hk import" store as well as a couple of gachapon places. The games store and HK import store are long gone, but the place is an excellent toilet stop place

Anyways, the 3rd (?) floor store is a full photographic child DVD/Video store. Now i've no idea if any of this is pornographic as i've never felt any inclination to step inside! But from the outside you have photographs (labeled clearly with age so you can't miss them as you pass) of young girls , from the age of around 7, in various outfits - but usually swimming suits. Some doing suggestive things like sloppily eating yoghurt with it ending up all over them or, as per previous example, eating a banana etc etc.

This isn't a case where it's a right-on-the-mainstreet open-to-the-world store front, but given the building IS on the mainstream it's possible to stumble past this place.

First time i saw it, given it replaced a games store that i went into the building to visit, it really did stop me in my tracks in a "WTF is this?!?" way.

[Skykid]

like was it an 'underground' or illegal type store? like back alley shit?

it would be pretty shocking if this was a legit store front

there is a 6 floor building next to the main street Messe Sanoh. This used to hold 2 games stores and 1 "Hk import" store as well as a couple of gachapon places. The games store and HK import store are long gone, but the place is an excellent toilet stop place

Anyways, the 3rd (?) floor store is a full photographic child DVD/Video store. Now i've no idea if any of this is pornographic as i've never felt any inclination to step inside! But from the outside you have photographs (labeled clearly with age so you can't miss them as you pass) of young girls , from the age of around 7, in various outfits - but usually swimming suits. Some doing suggestive things like sloppily eating yoghurt with it ending up all over them or, as per previous example, eating a banana etc etc.

This isn't a case where it's a right-on-the-mainstreet open-to-the-world store front, but given the building IS on the mainstream it's possible to stumble past this place.

First time i saw it, given it replaced a games store that i went into the building to visit, it really did stop me in my tracks in a "WTF is this?!?" way.

That sounds like the place. What a riot!

[jonny5]

like was it an 'underground' or illegal type store? like back alley shit?

it would be pretty shocking if this was a legit store front

there is a 6 floor building next to the main street Messe Sanoh. This used to hold 2 games stores and 1 "Hk import" store as well as a couple of gachapon places. The games store and HK import store are long gone, but the place is an excellent toilet stop place

Anyways, the 3rd (?) floor store is a full photographic child DVD/Video store. Now i've no idea if any of this is pornographic as i've never felt any inclination to step inside! But from the outside you have photographs (labeled clearly with age so you can't miss them as you pass) of young girls , from the age of around 7, in various outfits - but usually swimming suits. Some doing suggestive things like sloppily eating yoghurt with it ending up all over them or, as per previous example, eating a banana etc etc.

This isn't a case where it's a right-on-the-mainstreet open-to-the-world store front, but given the building IS on the mainstream it's possible to stumble past this place.

First time i saw it, given it replaced a games store that i went into the building to visit, it really did stop me in my tracks in a "WTF is this?!?" way.

That sounds like the place. What a riot!

what? ....you saw that, and thought it was funny?

'pedophilia...LOL....what will those sickos think of next.....sigh'...***continues shopping***

wow.....just...wow!

[Skykid]

Nah, you can see my stance is clear Jonny dude, just sarcasm.

You DO have to laugh though. It's either that or cry, one or the other.