I loved/hated ______ until I tried playing for score.

[Ebbo]

I liked Ikaruga, until I tried playing for score - Now I love it.
I loved Dodonpachi, until I tried playing for scOHGODWHYICAN'TSTOPPLAYINGTHIS?!

[Enhasa]

Brilliant thread idea.

I loved Blazing Star (!!!) until I really understood what playing for score was about. The more I realized, the worse it got. This is probably my #1 dropoff, the game that could most use a 1.5 revision. Doesn't help that Peplos is banned, because I'd use her even without TLB milking. Game is still pretty cool but I can't take it seriously anymore.

I loved Dangun Feveron until playing for score. Still like it a lot, but typical anal Cave hijinks screwed it up.

Same goes for playing other Cave games for score (like Guwange or Progear), only instead of loving like DF it was closer to liking. Now I can't stand them, which is a pity since some of the basic systems are pretty sweet and with easy balance changes (not punishing dying or bombing or chain breaking so harshly) I would still enjoy them. If I wasn't a score gamer, Cave games would still be pretty sweet. Which is why outside of this forum, like 99% of shmup enthusiasts are Cave fans.

Have to mention Viper Phase 1. Hmm, all 5 games I've mentioned so far were STGT voting selections. Maybe there's a lesson to be learned...

Off-topic, but since gs68 did it, Metal Slug. Some genres are better played for speed. Gunners Heaven understood this.


I liked them already, but I didn't truly love Yawaga Raizing games until playing for score. The funny thing is, like every single other person I've seen, my first impression of Cave games was a LOT LOT better than my first impression of Raizing games. This explains a lot since most people never move past first impressions.

I loved Granada back in the day, but only playing it more recently for score, has it shot way up into my top 10 shmups. I still just cannot believe this game is from 1990. Way way ahead of its time, and one of the most fun games to play for score I can think of.

Psyvariar games! People who play these like normal shmups have no idea what they're missing out on.

Rayforce (although it's pretty obvious what scoring is about, even the first time you play), Dragon Blaze and other later Psikyo, Twinbee Yahho, Omega Fighter, P-47 Aces are all games that went up significantly.



Batrider and Border Down have great systems, but in practice they are very demanding. But I still love them.

People mentioned RFJ and 19xx. RFJ went sideways because I love some aspects of scoring but not others. 19xx ought to go down like Viper Phase but it's not nearly as hard to perfect stages so I wasn't bothered. Takumi games also went sideways for me. I tend to hate chaining, even well-done chaining. I still find GW2 mediocre.

I don't like playing Bakraid or Dimahoo for score, but I don't hate the games. No, I just wish I was manly enough to handle them. Seems like they would be incredible fun to play for score once learned.

[ATH-A700s]

I was OK with Dodonpachi until I tried playing it for score. Now I love it.
I disliked Espgaluda until I played for score. I love it now.

[saucykobold]

The 100% requirement hurt my enjoyment of Viper Phase 1 as well.
Have to mention Viper Phase 1.
DIS GAEM DUN LIEK ME

VP1's scoring system isn't that bad, imo. Try looking at it this way. Beating the game is much easier than killing every enemy. If you can consistently beat the game, your scores will be respectable even if you seldom get the 100% bonus. On the other hand, a knack at getting the bonus won't do you much good if you die a lot.

I think something similar holds in Raiden DX. For about a tenth of a second, a Miclus is worth 50k; you'll lose 40k if you barely mistime it. That's almost as draconian as VP1's destruction rate, but here's the thing--your scores will be pretty good if you can consistently beat level nine (i.e. survive), even if you botch Miclii left and right. The same can't be said of a Miclus master who gets to level 5 on a good day.

When you're new to VP1 or DX, you'll get better scores in less time if you focus on survival. It's counterproductive to dwell on strict scoring mechanics right out of the gate.

[spadgy]

dwell on strict scoring mechanics right out of the gate.

I'm a sucker for doing this, and I hate it.

[Klatrymadon]

dwell on strict scoring mechanics right out of the gate.

I'm a sucker for doing this, and I hate it.

Aye, same here. I've been playing Border Down for the shmupmonth thing and am still arsing around in the first few levels (usually getting myself killed as I experiment), even though I can safely clear most of them.

[saucykobold]

Just to clarify, I didn't mean to generalize that point to all shmups. I was mainly referring to games like, say, Sexy Parodius. In Sexy, perfect bell farming will probably get you between 2 and 3 million points. This is extremely difficult. By contrast, a one life clear will net you 4 mil and is *much* easier.

In other games, I'm sure that focusing on score right away will be much more profitable than merely going for the clear. Dimahoo is a good example.

[Ruldra]

I'd say the "learn to survive before scoring" bit applies to every shmup, including Dimahoo. Like you said yourself, getting the bonus (in this case, a high multiplier) won't do you much good if you die a lot.

[Enhasa]

saucykobold is a wise kobold. I think I'll give Viper Phase another try sometime. Maybe it was the crazy STGT whining that got to me. Thanks for opening my eyes.

Imma man up and try survival scoring that game, Bakraid, and Dimahoo. Ok, maybe Bakraid isn't the best example. Damn you Axebeak!

[gs68]

I still love Gradius Gaiden even after learning how to play for score (eschew staying on "?" to get powerup points).
I hated WR-01R in RayCrisis until I tried playing for score.
I liked DJMAX Portable 2 through BS and Trilogy until I was forced to play for score.
I liked Torus Trooper until I tried playing for score (aka: slowing down constantly to get charge shot bonuses).

[esreveR]

I was worried about Battle Bakraid because everyone said the scoring system sucked. Then I figured out what it was, and it's now a favorite.

I liked Sengeki Striker until I saw Attract Mode. Old men with canes are NOT supposed to pilot aircraft! Also the whole 'crashing enemy aircraft into tanks' thing was kind of annoying to know right after I had done a full loop in it.

I liked Tetris Block in Space Bomber until I realized you can't score as big with it.

I hated Metal Slug until I realized that you can dodge 90% of bullets by standing still. Oh yeah, and Eri Kasamoto.

I hated Metal Black until I saw the ending. Then I raged for forty days and forty nights and erased it from my computer entirely.

I like Raiden DX, but the only issue I have with it is the stupid medals. Miss their entire shining sequence and it's only ten points for you. Bah.

I liked Metal Slug Advance until I realized there was no scoring system. Lame!

[spadgy]

I like Raiden DX, but the only issue I have with it is the stupid medals. Miss their entire shining sequence and it's only ten points for you. Bah.

Really? I think that brings a brilliant tension and drama to procedings. A great little detail that feels like it means so much at times.

I liked Metal Slug Advance until I realized there was no scoring system. Lame!

This.

[esreveR]

I like Raiden DX, but the only issue I have with it is the stupid medals. Miss their entire shining sequence and it's only ten points for you. Bah.

Really? I think that brings a brilliant tension and drama to procedings. A great little detail that feels like it means so much at times.

I think there should have been some sort of varying-value medal system, sure, but the one they ended up using is kind of annoying for the fact it doesn't #%*&@#& loop. Meaning if you miss a cycle, there goes all your point value.

[Marurun]

I hated Metal Slug until I realized that you can dodge 90% of bullets by standing still. Oh yeah, and Eri Kasamoto.

You playin' Metal Slug X on easy or something? I know sure as heck you can't just stand around in Metal Slug 3.

I used to hate playing Armored police Batrider and Battle Backraid because I couldn't focus on the bullets. So I put the difficulty to Very Hard and did better at avoiding bullets and collecting medals. Yeah, I don't get that either.

[Arvandor]

Games I enjoyed more after learning about their scoring system:

Dodonpachi
Gunbird 2
ESPgaluda
Mars Matrix
ChoRenSha68k

Games I enjoyed less after learning about their scoring system:

Radiant Silvergun
Battle Garegga
Mushihimesama

[esreveR]

I hated Metal Slug until I realized that you can dodge 90% of bullets by standing still. Oh yeah, and Eri Kasamoto.

You playin' Metal Slug X on easy or something? I know sure as heck you can't just stand around in Metal Slug 3.

No, I'm playing MS4 on Hard.

Try MSA too. The first grenadier you come across will never hit you. Ever.

I used to hate playing Armored police Batrider and Battle Backraid because I couldn't focus on the bullets. So I put the difficulty to Very Hard and did better at avoiding bullets and collecting medals. Yeah, I don't get that either.

Funny, I seem to do better on harder difficulties too.

While we're at that, I also find it rather odd that I also play better when the emulation screen is at minimum resolution (And with a 1600x900 monitor running 304x224 emulation, that can be pretty damn small). Maybe it's because my peripheral vision is covering the entire screen then, but I have no idea.

[Arcatech]

Same situation here for Gradius 3. Can barely squeak by stage 2. Then when stage three starts, get annihilated by a wall of little diamond shaped bullets..


edit: Just saw Ruldra's post about the backwards shot. I'll give that a try next time. I can imagine how that could be effective against the enemies hiding in the alcoves.

[Marurun]

While we're at that, I also find it rather odd that I also play better when the emulation screen is at minimum resolution (And with a 1600x900 monitor running 304x224 emulation, that can be pretty damn small). Maybe it's because my peripheral vision is covering the entire screen then, but I have no idea.

I notice I do better at Cave games when the resolution is really small like that also. Raizing games though, I can't see the tiny bullets when I do that so I have to keep the screen larger.

[mesh control]

Really starting to hate Espgaluda II after trying to emulate a superplay i watched.

[Phellan Wolf]

Loved Radiant Silvergun till I started to play it for score. Then all of a sudden the game became a nightmare.

[Vyxx]

Loved Ikaruga until I tried playing for score.

[gs68]

Espgaluda II BL went from meh to holy crap when I tried playing for score.

[bob]

I loved Ikaruga until I tried playing for score.
On paper the chaining system sounds still awesome too me.
But it is a big pain in the ass (at least for me).

Ikaruga has still a place in my heart... but the place it is living in is shatterd to pieces.
I somehow like the memories I have. But I don't feel like I'm gonna play it ever again.

But from the moment i played my first Cave game, i realized how much fun a shmup can be.

I smiled when I read that line! Because I can understand that feeling so well.
In my intro thread on this board I said:

Later I bought Ikaruga for the Gamecube [...]. Quite frustrating.
Because of this I haven't played shmups for quite some time.

But now the lust for shmups is back. I noticed that there are shmups that are actually FUN to play.

It is cool to know, that others feel exactly the same.

There are other games with which I had similar eperiences but none was so extreme as the one described above.

[-Bridget-]

I liked DoDonPachi and DDP DOJ till I tried playing for score; now I almost never touch either of them.

I'll seriously never understand why some people on these forums seem to think that ultra-strict scoring (seen in a few Cave titles, certainly) is a good idea. It never actually added to the challenge, for me, it mostly just made things really annoying. There's a big difference, to me, between "difficult" and "obnoxious".

I can say a similar thing about Galuda 2 on the 360: I liked the ideas behind Arcade mode till I tried to score in it, and then I loathed it. But it got me to really have a go at Black Label, which, while not as difficult on survival as I'd like it to be, is utterly superb.


And then there's Futari. I liked it originally, and then I started playing for score.... and decided it was the best shmup ever.

[njiska]

No exactly for score, but I hated Guwange until Johnny5 showed me the light. Now that I know to play the Shikigami offensively, not defensively the game is infinitely more fun and playing for score isn't so hard.

[Shatterhand]

I loved Batrider until I found out the game had insane scoring tricks, rank, secrets and shit. I came out to hate it. Then I begun to understand everything properly and came back to love it even more

[Ed Oscuro]

I loved Nitro Ball until I got 2M on the first stage...once. Rapidly downhill from there

Was on the first day of play at least. Still a great game. Wondering how many branch paths there are in the later levels (3 has one, at least; haven't made it further than that).

[Subterranean Sun]

I loved EVERYTHING until I tried playing for score.

[Schrodinger's cat]

I loved Mushi Futari 1.5 Maniac until I kept on dying trying to milk that stupid goddamn stage 2 boss, but then I start liking it again after I get past that. That boss is like a wall for around 90% of my runs and makes me want to break shit, especially after getting 180+mil points right before fighting it. It's like all of the fun gets sucked out out the game and then comes back again when/if I finally reach stage 3. If I didn't have to milk that asshole, the game would be so much better!

Too bad that boss alone is worth 100 mil if you score properly...

[Aru-san]

I hated Eden's Aegis until I tried playing for score.
I loved Eden's Edge until I tried playing for score. FREAKIN' MEDAL CHAINING RAWR (though Hell mode is an exception on this game)