confessions of a pathetic shmupper

[TVG]

putting down "replay watchers" is equally dumb tho.

twitch, i know, ive been long enough on the internet to know that a debate doesnt consisnt of finding out what is "right" or "wrong", it consists of throwing shit at each other, making shitty analogies and pretending we're right.

there's so much points that has been made that negates every thing you might say in the past topics its not funny, it ressembles something like this:

"but, look, ive been trying to mimic replays already, it just doesnt work"

-"HA, monkes sees monkey does LOL"

"they're not meant as a tutorial, but to watch someone skilled explore the mechanics of the game"

-"what you watch other men play? why you do this"

"but how would you go about living in japan and watching a good dude play in your average arcade?"

-"WHAT! shut up, i bet your mom is a fag"

yes, im making excuses for watching replays, that's right.

anyway this topic is so retarded that i really dont know why im posting in it.

and who makes psikyo replays anyway? whats the point? ok, a 2 loop no bomb replay would be cool, but other that that, yes, its kinda whack watching replays of games 90% about safespots and tactics.

[Nemo]

This is the final thing I have to say on this subject having seen 3 topics in the last month now about the samething it's getting quite old, so anyways here's the gist of what I'm saying:

Credits do have a purpose, they let you practice and they let people see the entire game, I never claimed credits are worthless. Where I have my issue is when people claim these games weren't designed to be completed on a single credit, whether you play that way or not doesn't matter, every arcade shooter was created to be completed with one credit. This isn't something fans made up, the developers make these games with the intent that in order to get the full experience of the game you have to play it with a single credit, every aspect of the game is designed around this idea. Now, whether or not you acknowledge this is up to you, but being on this board you should respect that the fact that 90% of the people here understand this and play that way, so to say it's all just a big joke is the same as trolling.

[Rob]

its kinda whack watching replays of games 90% about safespots and tactics.

Doesn't this describe nearly everything? All modern shooting games are like 80% planning, 20% execution. Of course if a player never took the time to develop the basic skills, that 20% will seem insurmountable.

[TVG]

its kinda whack watching replays of games 90% about safespots and tactics.

Doesn't this describe nearly everything? All modern shooting games are like 80% planning, 20% execution. Of course if a player never took the time to develop the basic skills, that 20% will seem insurmountable.

yes, but the tactics in modern shmups are more subtile, meaning, you wont understand what the fuck the player is doing.

in psikyo games, the tatics are mostly like "get behind the boss" "stop moving" "destroy the turret that shoots the evil stuff before it does"
its much like the old scholl shmups in that aspect, even if it does have some random spam.

watching a replay of such a game is kind of a walktrough, you will see the safespots and shit, while with other games, you might see some small tips, but not nearly as much.

im not knocking down people that watch those replays, do whatever you want, but this is not something ill do, unless its a game ive yet to play, because ill forget what i saw anyway.

[TWITCHDOCTOR]

This thread is getting amusing now...
One guy says he sucks at Shmups, and from there, all the Shmup-o's are banging their heads together like some wild Elk up in the mountians.

Honestly, I don't care enough about this website or shooting games to agrue about continues or the use of replay video's.
I provide my points of view on why I disagree with the use of such...however, you're still going to do what you prefer anyway.

[TVG]

yeah i guess.

[professor ganson]

This thread is getting amusing now...
One guy says he sucks at Shmups, and from there, all the Shmup-o's are banging their heads together like some wild Elk up in the mountians.

Well, I would say that it's Dragon Blaze that sucks and not me. I mean, if getting to level 3 or 4 on 1 credit feels nearly impossible to me, then the level of difficulty is wacked. Granted, I probably just need more time with the game, but as I recall the level of difficulty just explodes upward at around level 3 or so. You need a kind of reaction time that seems unattainable for someone turning 36 on this 3-day weekend.

Still, I allow that I'm pathetic for resorting to Easy level. I just don't want to feel that my hard-earned money went for nothing.

[karasuman]

>> You know what makes chess easier? Playing with 16 queens.

How would you get a checkmate if you both had 16 queens?

[Accutron]

I didn't say anything about the other guy having 16 queens

[Edge]

Usually I try to avoid such threads. However, since it's been at the top for days...

I don't want to offend anyone in here and this post is not for a specified person.

I personally think some of you should just accept the way others want to play shmups. YOU can say what YOU don't do because YOU think it's "lame". But you should accept and respect the way other users thinks about it. And not just calling them "lame" because the play the game in a different way. Afterall this is a forum, that means you can post your opinion her. But it also means you shall respect the opinions of others.
Even if you think it's pointless how they play the games, if it's fun to them why should you bother? Afterall all people browsing here are supossed to be shmup fans. So why not try to learn somehting about his view of this genre. Even if you disagree. Some members on the board shall disagree with your opinions and I guess you wouldn't like to be called a "lamer" just for beeing an individual.


Sorry, I really don't want to offend any of you or sound like a mod.

I think I somehow got lost with what I originaly wanted to say..

>> You know what makes chess easier? Playing with 16 queens.

How would you get a checkmate if you both had 16 queens?

Only you play with 16 queens, your opponent have the usual pieces.

[karasuman]

Haha, ok, that makes sense.

I guess to be on topic:

Credit feeding is like visiting a prostitute. If you decide to do it, don't tell anyone. ^_~

[Recap]

I'd just like to say that my cock's bigger than all of yours.

Well, everyone on this thread is acting like a fucking five year old and I can safely say that my wang is bigger than a five year old's. Before any of you smarmy bastards ask how I know how big a five year old's wang is, I was once five and I've kept a chart... want to see?

I could have just as easily said "I can pee a 30 foot stream. This IS just a pissing contest, right?" The point is that this is all fucking stupid.

If *I* am calling it fucking stupid, you KNOW there's a problem.

Ever notice how the more 'hardcore' a shmupper is, the more likely they are to be condescending asshats? Yes, I play because I like blowing shit up. Tell me I'm wrong for saying that and I'll tell you in precisely which orifice and in what manner you can get fucked.

Now you're just being a fucking dumbass (I hear the "BAN" button being clicked somewhere... fuck it).

ALL RULES ARE ARBITRARY and to act like there is ONE CORRECT WAY to play a game is just fucking dumb.

I credit feed practically every shmup I play. If I actually have FUN playing through it, I'll play it some more.

People don't stop playing games just because they 'beat' the game.

That's the dumbest thing I've ever fucking read. Okay, that's not true, it's not as bad as a Recap post, but it's up there.

Your 'coolness' only serves to evidence your idiocy. Learn to play an arcade game properly and maybe then you'll get the fun enough to forget you're the worst troll in these very boards.

[TWITCHDOCTOR]

Well, at least now we all know who the "most offensive" member is...

[black mariah]

Your 'coolness' only serves to evidence your idiocy. Learn to play an arcade game properly and maybe then you'll get the fun enough to forget you're the worst troll in these very boards.

You went to the trouble of copying, pasting, and quoting that much shit... honestly dude, you need to get a fucking life.

[Acid King]

They serve the same purpose, but go about it in a different way. The differences makes all the difference. Continues, when applied intelligently with a checkpoint system, aren't a big deal.

According to you, there is no difference because credit feeding, whether there are checkpoints or not, is lame. Credit feeding is credit feeding whether its like DDP DOJ or Gradius V. As you said, continuing is a way to buy an accomplishment, whether there are checkpoitns or not doesn't make a difference because the function is the same (purchasing a score or the end credits). The object of the game is to not die, right? So continues will "gut" the game no matter how they are applied because it makes it easier.

Yes, they most certainly do (except in shooters with checkpoints).

Using your logic, they would still affect the gameplay because they would allow you to start in the middle of the game. You would still be buying your position on whatever section of the game you continue on.

Thus my complaint. They are a gameplay-independent feature which affects the gameplay adversely, by attacking it from the outside. I would complain just as much if a game got easier when you turned the sound up, in which case I'd probably be arguing with a bunch of deaf people.

They don't affect the gameplay at all, I'll say it again. They are, as you say, independent of the gameplay. They do nothing to change the gameplay, just they way any single person experiences the game. Actually, you'd probably be like the kids in Counterstrike who call people who listen for footsteps wall hackers and cheaters. Either way, apples and oranges. Sound can and is a vital element in some games gameplay whereas continues are always independent of the gameplay.

Oh, is that all they do? All a nuclear bomb does is vaporize a large city. You know what makes chess easier? Playing with 16 queens. People who use continues habitually in shooters need to find a different (easier) hobby.

Playing with sixteen queens isn't possibe because that changes the games parameters mmmkay? Continues do nothing to the gameplay. They do not changes the enemy patterns, control system, bullet patterns, (excepting rank in some games) or anything else in the game.

We could take a survey, but I don't think you would be pleased with the results.

A survey wouldn't prove anything. Since the two groups (people who never continue and people who like to credit feed) don't overlap, and no one person could learn the same game two different ways, the results would be split and be meaningless. Like I said, it's debateable.

[FatCobra]

Is using continues to unlock shit like one of R-Type Final's gazillion ships or to get Gradius V's Weapon Edit mode considered cheating? As long as I play on Easy, I feel like I'm not gutting any scores, since Easy skill levels are for wusses, right?

Of course, not using continues and unlocking the stuff does make you feel better about it, but sometimes you're not good enough to fulfill "certain stage must be cleared" to unlock a ship.

The real game begin after you unlock everything anyway!

[Accutron]

<a heap of manure riddled with mixed up quoting>

There's nothing else I could possibly say to illustrate your ignorance more aptly than your own words, so I'll just leave it at that. I'm out, you win

[sethsez]

Actually, I think you've been clearly illustrating your ignorance ever since you brought up Tempest as an example for why continues are cheating in modern games. That was pretty inspired.

"Continues break the game because they allow you to buy a high score."
"But most shooters reset the score when you continue."
"TEMPEST DIDN'T. SHUT UP."

[professor ganson]

If the manure flinging is done...
And if Twitch will allow me to make just two comparisons...

It does seem to me, on reflection, that, in addition to the many ways that replays can be abused, there are some valuable uses as well. In the usual case one becomes truly great at chess in part by studying the play of masters. Why shouldn't super replay and the like serve a similar role in training great shmup players? Second, it does seem to me that replays can have great entertainment value in themselves. I would enjoy seeing video of the very best players of DDP DOJ (though I haven't yet), much as I enjoy watching the very best football players play football.
After writing this out, I realize now that what I'm saying is a bit too obvious to be worth posting. Oh well, I'm going to post it anyway.

[Accutron]

Actually, I think you've been clearly illustrating your ignorance ever since you brought up Tempest as an example for why continues are cheating in modern games. That was pretty inspired.

"Continues break the game because they allow you to buy a high score."
"But most shooters reset the score when you continue."
"TEMPEST DIDN'T. SHUT UP."

I never said that. The thread stands in evidence.

[sethsez]

I never said that. The thread stands in evidence.

o rly?

Continues are not for improving your skills. They are for buying a high score.

Most shmups reset the score when you continue, which is a fair trade-off.

In Tempest, the score does not reset.

[Accutron]

Yes, because those three snippets are the only thing I said in this thread

You know perfectly well that I was using Tempest as an example of how continuing has, from the very beginning, been an afterthought put in at the on behalf of the arcade industry to cull more money from average/unskilled players. I've already clarified this point ad nauseum.

You're not stupid, so I can only assume you're trolling. There are others in this thread who are less fortunate, please belittle their plight no further

[sjewkestheloon]

he he he he he...

well at least this thread gave me a good laugh. not had a ciggy in 4 days and just spent 3 hours in the job centre so i needed some useless crap to cheer me up. thanks all.

by the way, why do you all care? if you want to credit feed surely you don't need to aproval of the guys who don't, and vice vesa.