Progear nearly came to PS2!

[spadgy]

I had a really interesting conversation last night with a guy at Game Developers Conference in San Francisco about the fact that a Capcom CPS2 Classics Collection was seriously in consideration for PS2 and PSP.

We could have had Progear and its contemporaries on PS2!

The guy, who works at a leading game company I won't name just in case he wasn't meant to tell me, used to work at Digital Eclipse (later called Backbone Entertainment) when they handled the Capcom Classics Compilations.

In short, they were in talks with Capcom about putting all (!) or at least most of the CPS2 games onto a disc for PS2 and PSP.

The reason they didn't? "Not enough horsepower". Apparently later when Sony unlocked extra power (I admit I'm not sure what that refers to) in the PSP, it would have been possible, but by then the deal had gone off the boil.

In the same conversation, he revealed that to me Capcom sent all the PCBs for the games on the Capcom Classics discs to Digi Eclipse/Backbone, and they pulled and ported the games that way. When some bugs showed up in pre-release code (I presume alpha or beta) this guy and his colleagues had to pour through the PCBs proving that the bugs were on the original hardware and not their code.

Finally, a few sprites (apparently something in Section Z and something that looked like a coke can in another game on the Classics discs) had to be found in the PCB sprite sheets and removed because in today's market they caused nerves with Capcom legal. That single job was the most time consuming part of the porting, thanks to the intelligible nature of the sprite sheets.

Just a little anecdote for you! (I hope this isn't old news!).

[emphatic]

Wow that was a fun read, thanks for sharing!

[Smraedis]

Finally, a few sprites (apparently something in Section Z and something that looked like a coke can in another game on the Classics discs) had to be found in the PCB sprite sheets and removed because in today's market they caused nerves with Capcom legal. That single job was the most time consuming part of the porting, thanks to the intelligible nature of the sprite sheets

I thought it was Sidearms and its Gundam copy characters at the start of the game?

Anyway CCC2 has input lag and it just ruins the compliation.


Having fun over there?

[SuperPang]

Backbone Entertainment

Phew, lucky escape there.

[spadgy]

I am having fun thanks, but the work is damn hard! Party night tonight though!

Smraedis - Sidearms may well have been one of the sprite changed games too. I didn't mean to imply that it was only Section Z and another game - they were just the ones this guy mentioned. Or perhaps he meant Sidearms. He wasn't a huge shmup fan.

It's a shame this compilation never happened, as it would be great if more people had access to Progear, Mar Matrix, 19XX and so on...

EDIT: I'm enjoying the fact I just got to write 'Smraedis' followed by it's mirror image!

EDIT 2: SuperPang's post appeared while I was writing. Safe to say this guy is now at an amazing game tech company!

[Smraedis]

Sidearms is pretty much sequel to Section Z too, and I remember Sidearms having rather a few edits in CCC2.

Hard work? I'm sure flying all over the place makes up for this 'hard work'.

[DC906270]

It's a shame this compilation never happened,

even w/hi-res graphics? as i doubt itd have a lowres option. and im not much of a lo-res whore anyway, just sayin' thats all

[spadgy]

It's a shame this compilation never happened,

even w/hi-res graphics?

Sorry mate. I don't quite get what you mean!

Anyway, maybe if Capcom notice Cave's efforts on the 360, they will return to their idea about CPS2 Classics Collection! I doubt it though.

[Skykid]

It's a shame this compilation never happened,

even w/hi-res graphics?

Sorry mate. I don't quite get what you mean!

Anyway, maybe if Capcom notice Cave's efforts on the 360, they will return to their idea about CPS2 Classics Collection! I doubt it though.

I think there would be a good Japanese market for a CPS2 collection - those guys are more afraid of emulation than we are.

[Ganelon]

That's a shame. But don't all the games in CCC2 have 3-4 additional frames of input lag? I know at least ST has it. That would've been pretty annoying to have around.

[angrycoder]

hasn't there been a CPS2 emulator available like forever on the PSP?

[ave]

hasn't there been a CPS2 emulator available like forever on the PSP?

It took some time until it worked flawlessly, but it's been around for a couple of years, yes.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Interesting to learn that Digital Eclipse is known as Backbone Entertainment nowdays. They had a booth setup at the 2009 California Extreme show with a full sized Taito Space Invaders Extreme upright cab running SIE on XBox Live + a 16:9 widescreen LCD monitor display & four player arcade control panel setup. Trippy and insane gameplay as usual. Developer BE at the CAX '09 show even had a free raffle drawing to give away a brand new Xbox 360 console with no strings attached...some lucky dude ended up winning it.

I have a few high-res pics of that cool one-off SIE upright cab if you'd like to see them. It's a beautiful cab in it's own right.

http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/9739/img0950h.jpg
Close up of both Taito SI Copyright and Backbone Entertainment logo.

http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/3453/img0949q.jpg
Another shot of the SIE backlit marquee.

http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/8458/img0948i.jpg
Another shot of the 16:9 widescreen monitor and SIE marquee.

mod edit - changed ridiculously huge inlined images into links

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[Dragoforce]

Very intresting stuff Spadgy!

[dcharlie]

It took some time until it worked flawlessly, but it's been around for a couple of years, yes.

yup, i assume that goes back to the comment about Sony unlocking PSP power - they officially allowed the machine to run at 333Mz some time in the last few years, but this was unlocked by the CFW guys ages ago. Though i don't recall whether the CPS2 emu needed to be running in 333MHz mode or not.

CPS2 emu was pretty damned good last time i checked, and FBA is also pretty good for some on-the-go shmuping. Hell, you can even tate Dodonpachi (though the controls are a bit weird obviously)

[spadgy]

Very intresting stuff Spadgy!

Glad you all like my little story!

And now you say it dcharlie, I think that was the 333Mz thing that this guy said gave the PSP the potential for CPS2 Classic Collection. So the CFW emulation guys unlocked it before Sony?

Still, Progear on PSP would be tough. I'd far prefer to see it on PS2 (or PS3?).

[Kron]

There's a good chance we might end up seeing the CPS2 stuff on Microsofts Game Room anyway.

[dcharlie]

There's a good chance we might end up seeing the CPS2 stuff on Microsofts Game Room anyway.

though you have to assume Aliens vs Predator will fall victim to licensing :/

So the CFW emulation guys unlocked it before Sony?

the contention from Sony was that games maybe unstable at 333 and that battery life was significantly effected. With later models and better batteries they lifted the restriction.

333 was available for CFW pretty much from the start

[KidQuaalude]

Progear works just fine on final burn for XBOX

[spadgy]

Thanks dcharlie.

So this idea that CPS2 might make it to Game Room - is there anything concrete on that? I thought MS were going to stick to fairly mainstream, populist arcade games (of which CPS2 hosts a few, of course). I can't imagine we'll end up seeing Progear and 19XX.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

It took some time until it worked flawlessly, but it's been around for a couple of years, yes.

yup, i assume that goes back to the comment about Sony unlocking PSP power - they officially allowed the machine to run at 333Mz some time in the last few years, but this was unlocked by the CFW guys ages ago. Though i don't recall whether the CPS2 emu needed to be running in 333MHz mode or not.

CPS2 emu was pretty damned good last time i checked, and FBA is also pretty good for some on-the-go shmuping. Hell, you can even tate Dodonpachi (though the controls are a bit weird obviously)

It's possible to run/play CPS2 emu with the PSP's CPU set to 266mHz mode rather than all-out with 333mHz mode.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[lawnspic]

I loved FBAXXX on the Xbox but the PC version runs like shit using Vista (even with aero theme disabled) IMO. Kawak's if by far the best CPS2 Emu closely followed by Mame.

[professor ganson]

Very nice thread! I do wish there were a nice port of the CPS2 games, especially Dimahoo and Progear. I just don't want to mess around with suicide batteries.

[Kiken]

Very nice thread! I do wish there were a nice port of the CPS2 games, especially Dimahoo and Progear. I just don't want to mess around with suicide batteries.

Phoenix the board. Suicide battery is out of the picture. Then go through the hassle of re-wiring the fan so it doesn't sound like a fucking vacuum cleaner.

[GaijinPunch]

Nice find. But... in terms of the "power" statement, what's the consensus on CPS2 games that were ported to the PS2?

[dcharlie]

also going back to the "not enough horsepower" and the comment regarding "pull and port"

Digital Eclipse did all thier work via emulation rather than a traditional "port", hooking into the emulator to add extras like achievements etc. - or at least that's what i though!

I'm pretty certain the PS2 and PSP have the horse power to handle ports of the games, and though emulation has been proven on PSP there is maybe something about how they approach emulation that they needed some extra overhead - perhaps simply to make it a more coherent polished package?

(i'm blatantly playing some Mars Matrix later! thanks thread!)

[gray117]

The horsepower will be the 333mhz setting - adding to that 333mhz is still not allowed for multiplayer games even if you use it for single player; perhaps that may have remained a deal breaker...?

[spadgy]

Nice find. But... in terms of the "power" statement, what's the consensus on CPS2 games that were ported to the PS2?

Very good point, as is dcharlie's.

All I can go on is what the guy told me. He used the term 'horsepower'. He also said that they did go with emulation, but a heavily 'refined and reworked" emulation on the released Capcom Classics disks (thus all the screen resolution settings on PSP etc). He also said they definately had all the PCBs sent in by Capcom. He was certainly kosher, as I know him and his history in the industry. Hell - he writes for our mag on occaision.

It was a five minute chat in a San Fran restaurant, so I wasn't armed with my usual journalistic tools... like a pen. I just got what I got!

Perhaps gray117 has hit the nail on the head. If I meet the guy in person again I'll ask for clarification.

[MR_Soren]

Shame that didn't happen. Would still love to see a CPS2 collection released someday.

[Strider77]

Totally off topic... maybe not totally. But after playing Galuda 2 and all it's arranged modes and hearing 2 more ports are all that's left out of the all ready released cave titles in arcades;

I found myself daydreaming about a disc based port from Cave for Progear with a BL and/or arranged modes. I knew this was nothing possible really with it being owned by capcom technically... but that would have been really nice. I doubt that game really was created with any hi res masters so it being in HD was a no... but an arranged soundtrack and BL on a disc sounded really attractive.

I remember when progear was coming out along with mars matrix. I remember only knowing about progear from shots in a gamefan... maybe it was gamers republic by then? Been along time.... I was really wanting and totally expecting a DC port. Capcom was porting EVERYTHING arcade wise on DC then.