New shmups need a hook

[clp]

Espgaluda 2 is ASS loads harder than espgaluda so bar artistic style how are they the same?

[Pirate1019]

Why not incorporate a system where instaed of giving the player unlimited continues in the hopes that if hes hardcore enough he'll restrict himself to 1 credit, the game auto saves after each boss fight, thus ENCOURAGING the player to redo the level perfectly if they die.

Or how about a weapon reward system similar to Gradius PSP where you can save anywhere but if you die you lose everything thus encouraging the player to WANT to start the level over in order to have maximum firepower (and eye candy).

I really really enjoy euroshmups. for serious.

[Davey]

Seriously, picked up Mushihimesama Futari and Espgaluda 2 and damn these are the same exact games as the PS2 vesions with slight changes that are barely noticeable to all but the most hardcore shmup fan.

Being that the hardcore shmup fan is Cave's target audience, I don't see a problem. And as Danbo Daxter already mentioned, there are significant differences, they're just not noticeable until you really dive into the games.

I think this is one of the reasons why the shmup genre is so niche.

Maybe so, but "niche" is not a synonym for "unsuccessful." Besides, this has been discussed in detail in many threads, most recently this one.

[Skyline]

Boogie Wings got a hook.

[roker]

Boogie Wings got a hook.

win.

[JoshF]

Final Fantasy is actually a perfect example of what I was trying to say.

Excuse me while I lol.

, thus ENCOURAGING the player to redo the level perfectly if they die.

In every game I've played dying encourages me to not die.

Or how about a weapon reward system similar to Gradius PSP where you can save anywhere but if you die you lose everything thus encouraging the player to WANT to start the level over in order to have maximum firepower (and eye candy)

Ethicizing quicksaving will obviously encourage not doing what you're saying isn't improper in the first place. Worked great for FPS, since everyone who's played Quake has 1CCed it.

I know this sounds like I just want them to be more casual and maybe so but I think the genre needs to evolve a bit from the sport-like mentality in order to attract new fans.

Sounds like 16-bit shooters would be more your bag. Games like Biohazard Battle have "evolved" less enemy bullets and more lives.

Graphics and music. Especially shines on PSP.

Yes, what gaming experience doesn't shine when played with a small screen and speakers. Riven. Ocarina of Time. Ico. All mind-shattering experiences with a 3-inch screen,

Boogie Wings got a hook.

Everything about this post was me trying to live up to this and failing.

[evil_ash_xero]

Deathsmiles is different. Pick that up when it comes stateside. You certainly can't say there's any games out like it now, or that it's just Cave being Cave.

[Momijitsuki]

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. Similar visuals aside, comparing Mushihimesama and Mushihimesama Futari is like comparing an apple to an orange. The visuals are where the similarities end.

Also, Final Fantasy stopped being good after the SNES era.

[Darkseed]

Ok, ok guys. I shoulda known better than to post that here of all places.

Bottomline: I love shmups but think the most recent/hyped offerings are boring and I havent seen much progression and it seems everyone else is fine with that. Sue me.

Edit: not a Final Fantasy fan btw.

[eebrozgi]

Seriously, picked up Mushihimesama Futari and Espgaluda 2 and damn these are the same exact games as the PS2 vesions with slight changes that are barely noticeable to all but the most hardcore shmup fan. Not just from a gameplay standpoint but also artistically.

etc, etc.

First I was like huh well ok

but then,

Final Fantasy is actually a perfect example of what I was trying to say.

The underlying, fundamental combat system people love stays but they always change how we interface with it so it feels fresh. The art style and theme changes with each iteration. Compare FF9 to 13 (or any 2 chapters in the series) and you have 2 vastly different games even though the core mechanics are almost the same.

I laughed out loud.

[ZOM]

does this place always have threads about how to noob the genre up? seems like it

Hey we're in the noobing up generation after all. (minus Demon's Souls)

[NR777]

So, in order to have a "hook", new shmups need to suck giant rhinoceros testes. Hold on. I'll start an online petition to make sure devs get right on that.

[Udderdude]

Bottomline: I love shmups but think the most recent/hyped offerings are boring and I havent seen much progression and it seems everyone else is fine with that.

Try looking harder. You are only looking at things superficially. The meat of modern shmups is their varying scoring systems. If you can't tell the difference between Mushi and Futari, Espgaluda 1 and 2 try reading a strategy thread here or on cave-stg. The refinement is there, you just have to see it. Bolting on random shit from other genres will just dilute things.