Simplest system, most complex mechanics

[nullpointer]

Hi all,

Im tracking down your dvd pointers , thanks for that.
Here's another question im thinking about.

Which shmup has the simplest scoring mechanic that leads to the most detailed system?
Ikaruga is undoubtably a beautiful puzzle but the mechanics arent super simple,
sure the polarity switching is fairly obvious, but the additional stuff (chaining, bullet eating etc)
is a bit more complex. Im trying to put together a list of mechanics that are more
integral to the level design and emergent possible setups rather than things that just tag on
rank and medals etc.

Any suggestions?

[Sasupoika]

Battle Garegga.
Just bomb stuff and collect medals. Oh and don't forget to keep your rank low.

[Plasmo]

Battle Garegga

Just a simple medal chaining system

...NOT!


Worth mentioning:

Bakraid
Batrider
Raiden Fighters series

[cools]

Psyvariar.

[dpful]

giga wing 2? Night Raid? Maybe R-type Delta

[TVG]

Eh, raiden fighters is overly way complex and has like a gazillion secrets and hidden tricks, I guess the same applies to batrider. And garegga too.Might as well say dimahoo (my head hurts just thinking about it).

I guess dangun is simple, just collect those discomans, and blow shit up fast to collect more discomans, yet it's hard.

If you want simple but complex at the same time you can say mars matrix. Just collect those medals rhytmically and you'll be fine, right? Yeah right
Your question is too vague.

And ikaruga chaining is most definitely integral to level design, very much.

[Warp_Rattler]

Raiden Fighters Jet deserves a mention here just because of the ridiculous and almost hidden 'real' scoring mechanism of collecting small medals to the maximum point value, then uncovering but NOT collecting 9 medals onscreen at once, THEN collecting individual gold bars one at a time to drive the point value up to 100,000, THEN! not missing any to keep that value.

Individually they're all pretty simple, but throwing them all together makes for a pretty crazy experience where it's almost like it becomes a different game in the second level once you start the 'real' scoring.

Though Battle Garegga is really nuts as well.

[Acid King]

I'd say Mars Matrix. It's got one button and the system is essentially medal collecting but successfully manipulating the reflect shot and chaining entire stages is pretty damn difficult.

[nullpointer]

Hmm yeah psyvariar seems like a good call.
The basic buzz system is fairly easy to outline, but transforms leve design into a puzzle again.
Unless im missing some hidden scoring stuff.

Yeah, perhaps my question is too vague, there is probably a big distinction between mechanics that are actually part of play mechanics (ie required) and those that are additional to the basic survival level of shmups in order to generate a second 'pass' of game for those who want to score.

Not played Mars Matrix for a while, I will check back on it (vert on a hori screen though ... eugh

Thanks for the suggestions all

[Gespenst]

Giga Wing FTW.

or Storm Caliber (Doujin PC game)

[third_strike]

Bakraid

This is very far from one simple system.
Cool!

[t0yrobo]

Pretty much any chaining system. All you have to do is kill each enemy within x seconds of each other, not so hard right

[null1024]

Mars Matrix seems to fit extremely well: blow crap up, reflect, and take in all the shiny thingies. Sounds simple, but ends up with a very complicated system, where you have to constantly try to keep your medal chain up, and make sure you have your reflect charged at points when you need them most.
Giga Wing fits too [IIRC, ever since I started playing Mars Matrix, I just stopped playing this, saying it was effectively Mars Matrix 0.4, so I'm fuzzy on the details].

Also, none of the RF games should be mentioned. Seriously, guys. Just no.

[Zweihander]

Psyvariar 2.

Fixed. Also, Mushihime-sama Futari's arrange mode.

EDIT: And with its array of weapons, color chaining, linking the yellows after performing a "secret chain", boss destruction bonuses, grazing, and hidden dogs, I'd have to vouch for Radiant Silvergun.

[Plasmo]

Bakraid

This is very far from one simple system.
Cool!

What's so complex about a simple chaining system where you have to destroy bigger enemies in a row?
Then again, this game is one of the most complex ones ever, but the basic system behind it is simple.

[cools]

Psyvariar 2.

Fixed.

Thinking about it, yes - 2 strips it right down to the bare bones and beefs up the level design. Who needs to shoot anyway?

[Klatrymadon]

I think it's the fact that you're fully expected to understand and manipulate the stuff that's happening "behind the scenes" that makes it difficult to argue that many of these games are simple even on the surface. You'd be alright just concentrating on medal-grabbing in Garegga for a couple of levels, but most people are going to have to study the rank system and everything else if they want to play much further. I think the real contenders here are games whose depth can be overlooked by the intermediate player for most of their run. Or something.

[Gespenst]

Does Zanac Neo fits this?

[Zweihander]

Psyvariar 2.

Fixed.

Thinking about it, yes - 2 strips it right down to the bare bones and beefs up the level design. Who needs to shoot anyway?

Not only that, but making sure your level-up gauge is high enough so you don't get raped in the face when going for those neutrino bursts (especially on the last boss) is a science in itself.

It's kind of sad. I love Psyvariar 2 even though I suck at it, while I'm fairly decent at Ikaruga and can't stand the goddamn game anymore. (then again, playing ANY puzzle game for over 100 hours total can do that to you.)

[PC Engine Fan X!]

I've logged countless hours on the Tengen NES port of Klax to do well enough to 1CC the Atari Games Klax PCB (which is harder than it looks) considering that no two games are alike due to the random colored tiles that the CPU gives you. Scoring big and paying off big time may or may not always work in your favor though.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[cools]

Klax is a shmup now?

[dpful]

XII Stag has a simple system, and is a very different game if you use it. To bad it's impossible to do and the game sucks because of it. Seriously! (can't help ranting about xii stag).

I heard you can use a button on the home version. that would make a diff.

[spadgy]

I have to pitch in support for Psyvariar 2. While the technique is super simple, the amount of hidden tricks there are in that game, created by the level design, is just insane.

Garegga takes the prize here though.

Also - does Dogyunn fit? I'm not sure if it is perfect to be mentioned here, or the opposite of what you want. It's system is simple - you get points for shooting things - not much more to it than that. But it's mechanics are insane (switching bombs for speed up, combining ships, using a tractor beam to hold an enemy or spare power up, options only function with certain weapons), and you barely need to use any of the functions to score. However, really that means it has a complex system and simple (scoring) mechanics. So maybe it takes the prize for being the least relevant game here.

I guess you're talking complex scoring mechanics, rather than complex gameplay device mechanics?

[Zweihander]

XII Stag has a simple system, and is a very different game if you use it. To bad it's impossible to do and the game sucks because of it. Seriously! (can't help ranting about xii stag).

I heard you can use a button on the home version. that would make a diff.

Yeah, the "rolling" button makes it playable. Doesn't make it a great game, but at least it's a fun rainy day shmup.