Sin & Punishment 2

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WarpZone
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Re: Sin & Punishment 2

Post by WarpZone »

S&P1's damage formula is (HIT + TIME + LIFE) multiplied by the damage given, or multiplied by 100 for mid-bosses and 1000 for end-stage bosses. Because your hits climb over 2000 throughout the game but time never goes over 99, hits are a priority.

Scoring is covered in more detail here, especially look at StrangenessDSS's posts:

http://www.the-nextlevel.com/board/show ... =30&page=2

_______________________________________

In S&P2, it seem you generally want to kill bosses quickly but there are times where it's better to milk (at least while waiting for your charge shot, or maybe if you have a higher multiplier). And I just got a bonus for killing the stage 2 boss with one second left on the clock that's equivalent to 30 seconds remaining.

Does anyone know how bronze/silver/gold medals work? Obviously the special medals are triggered for doing particular things in a stage.
Last edited by WarpZone on Tue Dec 01, 2009 11:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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MrMonkeyMan
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Re: Sin & Punishment 2

Post by MrMonkeyMan »

Whether you want to milk a boss or not depends on a few things. For starters, doing constant damage is worth way more points then the time bonus, so bosses with replenishing body parts are great for big points. Stage 2's final boss is a big one for this. His seahorse form with all the little tentacles that keep coming back are worth a lot of points.

Building up your multiplier would be another reason to milk a boss. Might as well get it up to 16x before you finish a boss off if you can.

Also, killing enemies by knocking a projectile at it will reward you with a silver coin that is worth 5,000 base points. With a multiplier of 16x that's 80,000 points, stage 0 is all about this technique.

I believe the coin base values are:
Bronze: 1,000
Silver: 5,000
Gold: 10,000
Special Medal: 200,000 - awarded after beating the stage (not affected by the multiplier)

Special medals are triggered by doing special things on each stage. I know on stage 0 you get one medal for reaching 200 hits, and another for reaching 290 hits. You also get two medals for knocking missiles back at the missile shooting enemies at the end of the stage, and the last one has something to do with the blocks that hang above the boss. It might be for knocking so many of them down, or for having so many fall and damage the boss.

You even get points for standing on the ground. When you are standing still you barely get anything, so wasting time on bosses just for the ground bonus is pointless. When running forward the points you get increases greatly (maybe 5-10 times more). This only counts when the game is auto scrolling, simply running back and forth yourself is worth nothing.
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evil_ash_xero
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Re: Sin & Punishment 2

Post by evil_ash_xero »

sfried wrote:Any word on the soundtrack? What I'v heard so far is miles better than the N64 original.

The soundtrack is a lot better, i'd say.
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bcass
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Re: Sin & Punishment 2

Post by bcass »

I've had this since release but haven't done the final boss yet. For anyone who has completed it - is Iuchi mentioned anywhere in the credits? Just wondering if he had any input before he left.
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guigui
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Re: Sin & Punishment 2

Post by guigui »

WarpZone wrote:S&P1's damage formula is (HIT + TIME + LIFE) multiplied by the damage given, or multiplied by 100 for mid-bosses and 1000 for end-stage bosses. Because your hits climb over 2000 throughout the game but time never goes over 99, hits are a priority.

Scoring is covered in more detail here, especially look at StrangenessDSS's posts:

http://www.the-nextlevel.com/board/show ... =30&page=2

Thanks for the link, I'm sure it will help a lot.
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MrMonkeyMan
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Re: Sin & Punishment 2

Post by MrMonkeyMan »

bcass wrote:I've had this since release but haven't done the final boss yet. For anyone who has completed it - is Iuchi mentioned anywhere in the credits? Just wondering if he had any input before he left.
I don't believe his name pops up anywhere.
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guigui
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Re: Sin & Punishment 2

Post by guigui »

The game has not arrived yet from Play Asia. It was shipped on october 28th though. Anyone here recieved his copy from them ?
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evil_ash_xero
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Re: Sin & Punishment 2

Post by evil_ash_xero »

guigui wrote:The game has not arrived yet from Play Asia. It was shipped on october 28th though. Anyone here recieved his copy from them ?
I did, but I had it shipped EMS.

However, I ordered an item from them, and it took over 3 weeks to arrive. It was nuts. So, I cancelled my order for Mushi, and ordered it from NCS.
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guigui
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Re: Sin & Punishment 2

Post by guigui »

evil_ash_xero wrote:
guigui wrote:The game has not arrived yet from Play Asia. It was shipped on october 28th though. Anyone here recieved his copy from them ?
I did, but I had it shipped EMS.

However, I ordered an item from them, and it took over 3 weeks to arrive. It was nuts. So, I cancelled my order for Mushi, and ordered it from NCS.
Thanks for the info. PA never took (until now actually) more than two weeks to ship regular mail to me (France), I begin to worry now ! Let's just say my patience is limitated when it comes to Treasure.

About your 3 weeks + delivery, maybe is it because you live in Hell ? :oops:
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Re: Sin & Punishment 2

Post by evil_ash_xero »

guigui wrote:
About your 3 weeks + delivery, maybe is it because you live in Hell ? :oops:

I dunno. People don't seem to want to come here. :P
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guigui
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Re: Sin & Punishment 2

Post by guigui »

Well well, one more week has passed and game has not arrived yet. At least four of us frenchies are in the same situation. Anyone recieved his from PA airmail ?
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evil_ash_xero
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Re: Sin & Punishment 2

Post by evil_ash_xero »

guigui wrote:Well well, one more week has passed and game has not arrived yet. At least four of us frenchies are in the same situation. Anyone recieved his from PA airmail ?
Man, that's sad. Like I said, I ordered one of those 3 in 1(or is that 4 in 1?) carts for my Sega Saturn from PA. I got it shipped normally in a box. It too almost one freaking month to get here. So, when I ordered SP2, I got it shipped EMS, and it shipped Wednesday or Thursday, and arrived on Monday.
I used to get items quicker from PA when shipped by normal means, but I wouldn't risk it now, if it was something I really wanted quickly.
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Shelcoof
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Re: Sin & Punishment 2

Post by Shelcoof »

I find Play-Asia to be really reliable but the way they ship isn't great. They do things by the book, this can be a good thing or bad thing.

Going by the book and marking items as merchandise raises the red flag for customs. That can keep your items waiting up to two weeks than nomral here in Canada.

It sure will get to me but I'm almost garunteed to pay duty and taxes.
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Re: Sin & Punishment 2

Post by Zeether »

So what are the odds of Steve Blum being in the English cast when this comes out in the US? :P
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Re: Sin & Punishment 2

Post by MrMonkeyMan »

Well, I've been playing a bit the last week, got some new scores. Figure I'll post them here. The bolded ones are stages I've actually played for score.

Isa - Normal
0: 24,141,976 - 298
1: 37,410,328 - 781
2: 109,050,171 - 1587
3: 74,232,021 - 1430

4: 35,285,200 - 877
5: 52,837,987 - 959
6: 46,212,593 - 901
7: 24,288,550 - 1007

Someone has 25.6 million on stage 0, and has me completely baffled. The only big points I think I missed were about 30 seconds on the boss for 480,000 points which still leaves me a million short. Stage 2 I'm sure I could push to 120+ million, but it's a long stage and I like to get hit at the worst times.

I figured out the values for a few more things too. All affected by the multiplier.

10,000 points per gold coin
5,000 points per silver coin
1,000 points per bronze coin
100 points per damage
60 points per second standing still
20 shots a second
1 shot = 1 damage (normal difficulty)

So 1 second of continuous damage is 32,000 points (16x multiplier) and 1 second of boss bonus is 16,000 points.

I still don't know the value of the ground bonus when the screen is auto scrolling. I think it changes depending on the speed even.

I should also mention you get points for cancelling bullets and knocking back missiles with your sword. Bullet values seem to range from 10-100 points and I think you get 200 for hitting a missile, but that might vary too. I can't think of too many places where you would want to sit there and just cancel bullets though.
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guigui
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Re: Sin & Punishment 2

Post by guigui »

Game has finally come to France and I am glad I can play it.

I also grandly appreciate your scoring tips MrMonkeyMan. If you have other ones, especially regarding those "special" bonus awarded at the end of the stage (those ones where I ALWAYS get 0 !), dont hesitate to post here !

I can barely get more than 10.000.000 on stage 0 for now.
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WarpZone
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Re: Sin & Punishment 2

Post by WarpZone »

SPECIAL MEDAL LIST

They really aren't worth that many points, but are a nice guidepost to doing well in some parts. As mentioned, they are worth 200,000 points each but only if you finish the stage. You lose them if you die.

* thanks to guigui, Pyro76 (on GameFAQs) and TrulyDexterous's FAQ for some of the requirements

Stage 0

1. 200 hits
2. 250 hits
3. Destroy at least ___ mechs
4. Destroy at least ___ mechs in the last set
5. Drop the ceiling containers on the boss

Stage 1

1. 500 hits
2. 700 hits
3. Destroy all 9 towers in the opening run with the melee attack
4. Destroy two of the big ships in the opening run
5. Knock down Cock Keeper
6. Hit something with every missile from the launcher
7. Hit something with every missile from the second launcher
8. Destroy all the cranes as you go around the tower
9. Get to Snapper Keeper with full HP (shoot his head)
10. Knock Snapper Keeper into the pit by shooting his legs
11. Reflect Snapper Keeper's bite attack

Stage 2

1. 500 hits
2. 1000 hits
3. Destroy all 7 large containers in the background
4. Destroy 2 green eels
5. Get all the floating coins (?)
6. Melee Medusa Keeper's arms all at once (?)
7. Destroy the side walls at the beginning of the dark tunnel after Moray Keeper
8. Destroy 20 red searchlights/lasers
9. Destroy 100 turrets during N5 Barracuda phase 2
10. Melee Brimstone's flame guns in phase 2
11. Melee all the mines in Brimstone phase 3 (?)

Stage 3

1. 800 hits
2. 1100 hits
3. Destroy all the flying enemies at the beginning, up until you start fighting the mutants
4. Melee the spinning saw so it bounces and destroys enough enemies on the ceiling
5. You get this from the last ceiling enemy before Guardian 11 - not sure on the condition
6. Destroy all the heads that pop out of the walls
7. Destroy all the floating towers
8. Destroy all elements of Guardian 17 before time runs out
9. Stun Hibaru (deflect her attack twice in a row)
10. Destroy ___ crates simultaneously during the final part of the Giant Keeper battle

Stage 4

1. 400 hits
2. 800 hits
3. Destroy all the pop-up tombstones during one section near the start
4. Destroy all five of those little shrines
5. Destroy all the purple skulls that fly out of the buildings
6. Something about Skull Keeper's ball (?)
7. Reflect a projectile at all the barrels in the grass field
8. Reflect Ninja Keeper's frog's tongue
9. Slash Swamp Keeper when he charges the screen (before the actual boss fight)
10. Touch a blue orb during the Ariana Shami battle

Stage 5

1. 300 hits
2. 500 hits
3. Destroy both yellow cars before Sabrehook Keeper
4. Destroy all 9 gas canisters before Sabrehook Keeper
5. Don't hit the side walls and you'll get this one when you reach the giant backbone
6. Destroy all 21 gas canisters between Sabrehook and Vulture Keeper
7. Destroy a lot of cactus monsters
8. Destroy a lot of the bombers
9.
10.

Stage 6

1. 500 hits
2. 1000 hits
3. Destroy all 9 pillars (3 on each island)
4. After the gun boss do a three-hit combo when you fly towards the battleship
5. Appears alongside some other medals as you enter the gate -- fly low
6. Damage Hatchling Keeper a lot during the crane battle
7. After Hatchling Keeper, it again appears alongside other medals -- fly low
8. Defeat all the shrimp that come out of the lava in the final tunnel
9. Take no damage on Deko's first form
10. Take no damage on Deko's second form
11. Seven-hit (?) combo on Deko's third form

Stage 7

1. 300 hits
2. 800 hits
3. Destroy all 4 of Ariana's bird portals
4. Take no damage on Ariana
5. Take no damage on Ritter
6. Destroy Orion Tsang's snakes (Japanese ver) / Destroy all parts of his spaceship (western ver)
7. Take no damage on Orion Tsang
8. Take no damage on Hibaru Yaju

________________________________________


Finished the game -- brilliant overall and maybe the best of its kind. Others may have better presentation (Rez) or more interesting structure and integration of story (Star Fox 64), but so far as the mechanics and challenging, imaginative level design to compliment it go, this may be the top.

Stage 3 more or less sums up what's so great about the game and is a virtuoso tour de force of action game design, effortlessly transitioning between or combining elements of several genres/gameplay styles without ever needing to change the controls -- it's real magic of flexible play mechanics that tap into an endless vault of ideas, and among the best levels Treasure has ever done.

Overall length was a concern and the 2+ hour All Clear isn't very practical, but at an average of maybe 20 minutes, most stages are hefty for individual score attack, almost like self-contained arcade games with their own focus, pacing arc, and multi-form end bosses. And overall density and interest in level design hardly suffers -- there is almost no filler and most bosses can be killed before their pattern repeats, although some may encourage over-long milking.

Other bosses don't have a distinct, linear pattern so much as a dozen fast attacks you're bombarded with, sometimes randomly, which isn't really comparable to anything in the first game and completely caught me off guard. Again, the game delights in shifting paradigms, but in this case it isn't always for the best and there are some questionable boss designs towards the end along with one big difficulty spike.

______________________________________


An All Clear on Easy was straightforward and I could probably do it on Normal soon -- there are just a couple sections where I feel a squeeze for health (later parts of stage 3, and middle of stage 6). I wonder if there are any health items I'm missing. It feels like there ought to be a 30 HP one somewhere in the middle of stage 3. I make so many small mistakes there. In stage 6 there is one right before Stromboli for destroying a chunk of the ship I missed the first couple times.

Nice scores, MMM, and thanks for the scoring info. I assume you're milking Brinstone in stage 2... I haven't been able to do that reliably yet, although milking Ritter is fairly simple.

Did you know you can shoot the mines used during the third Alternator phase during the first and second? Just save enough to use later.
Last edited by WarpZone on Thu May 05, 2011 2:21 am, edited 5 times in total.
Zeether
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Re: Sin & Punishment 2

Post by Zeether »

I can't wait for the US release.
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Re: Sin & Punishment 2

Post by Ebbo »

I'm as eagerly waiting for the PAL release, being a big Tresure fan and I really enjoyed S&P, although it had its quirks. But so far everything I have seen from this sequel has looked very promising. Stage 3 just blew my mind - "Treasure, you've done it again!"
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MrMonkeyMan
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Re: Sin & Punishment 2

Post by MrMonkeyMan »

WarpZone wrote:Nice scores, MMM, and thanks for the scoring info. I assume you're milking Brinstone in stage 2... I haven't been able to do that reliably yet, although milking Ritter is fairly simple.

Did you know you can shoot the mines used during the third Alternator phase during the first and second? Just save enough to use later.
Yeah, I milk him for some amount of points. Probably around 15-20 million. I find that if you lock on to the middle outside turrets and then knock back the missiles the soldier fires you will destroy all four far turrets on that side of Brinstone and not hit the soldiers. Do that 3 times while also slashing the close turrets and when the soldiers leave you can use a charge shot to clear out another set of turrets before the next set of soldiers pop up. That'll get you over 2 million points each time a group of soldiers pop up if you knock back all three missiles and keep destroying each set of turrets and keep a 16x multiplier.

Ritter is where all the points are though. His first form is worth the most by far. Let the blobs build up, don't destroy any. Eventually some blobs will start turning in to jets and will release missiles. If you can hit these missiles in to a group of blobs in the foreground you will get a lot of silver coins. You can keep doing this the whole fight. 30 million plus is very easy on this part. The other two sections are pretty obvious. Just keep doing as much damage as possible.

If you're milking bosses you should also try to go for the Just 0 Bonus, where you kill the boss with less then a second on the timer. You'll get 30 seconds worth of points. Just make sure not to go over or you'll get no bonus and your multiplier will start dropping.

I've got some new scores too.

Isa - Normal
Stage 2: 118,639,617 - 1834 Hits
Stage 4: 73,081,522 - 1521 Hits
Stage 7: 85,098,396 - 1004 Hits

The perfect bonus on stage 7 is another million points, or 16 million with the muliplier. Combined with a perfect 1000 health remaining you will get a 32 million point bonus. It's a lot easier to do than in the original too.
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Re: Sin & Punishment 2

Post by jeremycarrier »

Wait, does that mean you have to get through the whole level untouched? Holy balls
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Re: Sin & Punishment 2

Post by jeremycarrier »

Anybody got any real strats for the fistfight? I had an All Clear all the way until this BS fight.
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Re: Sin & Punishment 2

Post by MrMonkeyMan »

jeremycarrier wrote:Anybody got any real strats for the fistfight? I had an All Clear all the way until this BS fight.
My strategy is to just rush him. Once I knock him down once I start a combo as he's getting up. Usually the 2nd or 3rd hit will connect and I'll knock him back down and just repeat this until it's over.

Someone posted a video of hard mode on Nicovideo showing a trick where you get behind him after knocking him down. When he gets up he will try to kick you, so you dash back quickly and then hit him right away. You can check the video here if you have a nicovideo account.

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm8855715

Stage 6 as a whole seems kind of sloppy to me. There's that battleship near the start which is pretty cool, but there are long stretches with absolutely no enemies on screen. There's plenty of places you would expect enemies to come from, but there's nothing. There's even a door to the landing pad that opens, but nothing comes out.

The train boss is another section that bothers me. I just can't see any way of predicting which tracks the boss is going to jump to. It feels completely random to me, and it's annoying when the boss is simply never on the same tracks as the train cars.

And yeah, that fist fight at the end is just confusing too. I'm sure there are a lot of people who get there and just spam attacks hoping he dies before they do. It's confusing when he's not doing anything yet your attacks don't connect, and then he hits you even though you're in the middle of punching through him.

As for me, I got one new score with Isa on Normal. Stage 6, if you'll believe it.

Stage 6: 82,368,645 - 1645 Hits

I have the top scores for stage 2-7 now with Isa on Normal. I wish some people would stop playing on easy and move on to normal.
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Re: Sin & Punishment 2

Post by jeremycarrier »

Holy CRAP that thing is high. I was happy getting over 150 million on my All Clear(died on the first form of Deco. I seriously have no good strategy for that thing, I always lose like forty health on that thing).

Three things in the game that still own me on Normal: First form of Stage 6 Deco, the fist fight, and the last battle with you protecting Kachi and you got to hit all the dots.

For Stage 6 Deco, I hit him with the charge shot immediately, focus on clearing out the bottom guards, and try to hit back the missiles when I can. I still get the crap kicked out of me, Fistfight thing is so random, but I have to try that strat in the video. The final form is fine for me until those green balls come out. I don't know when to shoot them, or the pink lasers, or the various blue/orange balls :(

Edit: Whats your name on the Leaderboards, MrMonkeyMan? Or are you not doing All Clear runs? I'm Jeremy, I think I'm just out of the top scores at #36 with about 160 mil or so.
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Re: Sin & Punishment 2

Post by MrMonkeyMan »

I'm TSN, and I've only been playing single stages for the time being. I'll aim for a 500+ million point clear when I'm comfortable with all the stages. Don't want to blow a run 2 hours in. I think my current all clear is 260 million.

When protecting Kachi at the end, first shoot the two green blobs to cause them to split up. When he shoots out that large laser beam aim your charge shot at one of the green dots to split them up a final time. This should take care of the laser beam too, if not shoot it until it's gone. Once you can use your charge shot again aim it at a green blob to take them all out.

If there are any parts in particular that give you trouble just use a charge shot on a bullet to clear the screen. I use one at the end of the sword attack when he starts spawning two at once. Charge up and aim at a sword to clear everything off the screen.

If you're playing as Kachi I have no idea what you should do. Those green blobs look like they'd be a real pain without Isa's charge shot.

As for the first fight with Deco, it's actually pretty easy once you figure everything out. First, get off the ground to avoid the soldiers' fire and use a charge shot on the second big robot from the left, this will take out both robots on the left. Now focus on the soldiers until the missiles show up and knock one in to each remaining robot, then hit as many as you can in to Deco (or the soldiers if you want to milk the boss). Then focus back on the soldiers and land on the ground to avoid the glowing balls at the top of the screen. Make sure you have another charge shot ready for the next batch of big robots and repeat the same strategy. Also, when Deco stops firing at you he will always throw a bomb which you can hit back at him, which is the same for the next fight.
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Re: Sin & Punishment 2

Post by hermosaguy »

Anyone have any tips for ariana, I'm about ready to put my foot through my tv. Haven't been this frustrated at a game in quite some time!

Just finished this part...continued probably about 50+ times =/
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Re: Sin & Punishment 2

Post by guigui »

There are some serious players in here, glad to see it and thanks for all the infos.
hermosaguy wrote:Anyone have any tips for ariana, I'm about ready to put my foot through my tv. Haven't been this frustrated at a game in quite some time!

Just finished this part...continued probably about 50+ times =/
Is Ariana that girl with her sword at the end of stage 3 ? If yes, I just wait until she runs to me and strike with my sword early enough. With good timing, you'll touch her. Repeat 3 of four times and she'll be knocked down street-fighter-style, with the flying birds around her head. Charge shot for max damage.
When her health is lower than 1400, she will become vulnerable to regular shots. Don't hesitate now, just blast and dodge. At around 500, she'll come back to invicibilty to shots. Repeat the first sequence and she is down.

EDIT : also, I add two questions :

-What is the question asked between each stage ? I answer no because answering yes just takes a lot of time for nothing...

-What is the deal with that large red circle appearing on my lens some times. I mean, I can see why a small red circle appears often : it means there is something here I can shoot. I can see why a small square appears : it means I successfully reflected a projectile to a target. Now for the big red circle, I confess I have no idea what it means...
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Re: Sin & Punishment 2

Post by jeremycarrier »

The sword girl is easy as hell. If you stay to far she'll shoot the green balls at you, so you have to stay within a certain range. Just about as soon as she charges towards you, start your combo. If you hit her twice in a row(without her doing the flip back or behind you), she'll be dizzied. Hit her with a charge shot and then move in close to get in a sword combo. Keep doing that until she turns "real" or whatever. Most of the attacks are stupidly easy to dodge, but the purple balls can blow up and shoot lasers at you, so I charge shot them when they come out. Eventually, she'll go back to her first form, where you can finish her off.

The question asked between stages asks you to save, I believe.

The large red circle usually means you pressed A to lock on to something. This helps when you want to deflect something, but your main gun does half damage, so don't rely on it.
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Re: Sin & Punishment 2

Post by guigui »

jeremycarrier wrote:The sword girl is easy as hell. If you stay to far she'll shoot the green balls at you, so you have to stay within a certain range. Just about as soon as she charges towards you, start your combo. If you hit her twice in a row(without her doing the flip back or behind you), she'll be dizzied. Hit her with a charge shot and then move in close to get in a sword combo. Keep doing that until she turns "real" or whatever. Most of the attacks are stupidly easy to dodge, but the purple balls can blow up and shoot lasers at you, so I charge shot them when they come out. Eventually, she'll go back to her first form, where you can finish her off.
Sorry for answering to the wrong boss ! Ariana is kinda though indeed. Be sure to slash the black crow/ball she sends sometimes. It makes you enter a kind of bullet time.
jeremycarrier wrote: The question asked between stages asks you to save, I believe.
I answer no and my game is saved nonetheless..
jeremycarrier wrote: The large red circle usually means you pressed A to lock on to something. This helps when you want to deflect something, but your main gun does half damage, so don't rely on it.
Woohoo, you mean this game has a kind of lock-on shot as the first game did ? Am i stupid enough to have missed that ? I play with Isa and thought that the A button was only used to charge shot. Does it mean that "tap A button" switches between lock on and free shot while "pressing A long enough" charges the shot ?
Bravo jolie Ln, tu as trouvé : l'armée de l'air c'est là où on peut te tenir par la main.
jeremycarrier
Posts: 165
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 7:44 pm

Re: Sin & Punishment 2

Post by jeremycarrier »

^Thats right. Tap A on an enemy and you do the lock-on shot. Hold A for the Charge Shot. Thats with Isa, by the way.
DDP current hi-score: http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/1766/ddon0011ki3.png
Weave...Dodge...Attack
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