When will HDTVs(non-CRT) be free of lag?

[evil_ash_xero]

Have they been making steps to improve this for gaming?

I hear that Sony has a new type coming out called OLED. Any news on that?

What about DLP screens? I haven't heard much about their response time at all.

Honestly, I can't see myself buying a widescreen for gaming any time soon.

[Damocles]

I hear that Sony has a new type coming out called OLED. Any news on that?

You mean the ones that are $2000 and 8". Yeah, no.

[D]

I thought that plasma's had super little lag time. Correct me.

[evil_ash_xero]

I have no clue. I just always hear the all lack behind CRT. Which sucks.

As for the OLED..i'm sure they'll get better and cheaper. Maybe they, or some other type of TV can fix this problem. It's ridiculous. It wouldn't be so bad if they still made CRTs for us gamers who take it seriously. Now, I have to surf around Craigslist and probably drive 3 or 4 hours to another state to get some TV that weighs almost 200 pounds....geez...

[cools]

I thought that plasma's had super little lag time. Correct me.

No need to. You're correct.

CRT>Plasma>LCD

[BryanM]

OLEDs will, eventually, replace the shittastic LCDs. If the 10,000x better picture and lower power consumption wouldn't do it, beating LCD's at being even smaller will. These things can be made about as thin as a poster, possible to roll up and all.

If they can get a solution to give OLEDs a longer lifespan, they would be pretty much The Ideal. For crap's sake, you could stack this crap in multiple layers to create a 3d effect.

Sad but true story: my 19" CRT monitor here is going senile. There's a black bar thing gobbling up screen space at the bottom. The creeping black bar of death.

[Gozer]

I made a big mistake in getting an HD LCD. I was going to get a plasma at first. I then made the mistake in reading reviews about certain LCD models I was looking at as well and they swayed my choice. It's seems the majority of people prefer LCD>plasma. Wrong choice IMO.

I am pretty excited about OLED technology though. I'm hoping it won't take too long for them to be affordable.

Here is some Left 4 Dead footage on a Sony oled xel-1 model.
Even with the youtube compression and the camera quality, you can just tell it looks gorgeous.

[Pixel_Outlaw]

I used a stopwatch to time my father's DLP TV and it had a lag of almost an entire second. You push left and .75 seconds later megaman moves left. Very annoying. TV's no longer support the CRT fun and speed of yesteryear. No lightguns for you and a small amount of lag on some technologies. All so we can make out the sweat drops on some football player's ass. Pointless.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Plus there is talk about the merging 1440p format that just might replace the current 1080p format. What be the next big jump in resolution for HDTV monitors in the nearby future?

If you have some serious $$$ to burn, you might to consider getting an Pioneer Kuro Plasma TV monitor as the blacks are better than what you'd see on an LCD-type HDTV nowdays. This year's Kuro production models will be the very last HDTVs to be made entirely by Pioneer themselves. Next year's 2011 production Kuro model Plasma TVs will have a mixture of both Panasonic and Pioneer internal components. So now's the time to get one if you want one.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[neorichieb1971]

Lag is a result of digital processing of the image for a digital screen.

Best results are to keep all components digital, including cables. To put 1080p into a 1080p monitor/HDTV to match resolution.

If no video processing is required down the path, you should hit the perfect 10. However, it will still lag more than a CRT, simply because CRT's have no video processing done at all.

[BryanM]

Five to ten more years...

Not a Slashdot style "five more years" - OLEDs are an actual product right now. Five years was about how long it took for DVDs and the cancer of LCDs to become the standard, right?

[undamned]

When will HDTVs(non-CRT) be free of lag?

Lag is a result of digital processing of the image for a digital screen.

Exactly. That being said, HDTV's are already lag-free (from a human perspective) if you feed them their favourite signals. If you run a 720p game via digital medium to a TV w/ 720p native resolution, you should have zero noticeable lag. You run a 720p game via analog medium to a 720p TV, you may see some lag. You run a 720p game via digital medium to a TV w/ 1080p native resolution, you may see some lag.

Essentially if you mis-match analog/digital or XXXXp/YYYYp resolution you are open for lag. Match mediums and resolutions for no lag performance.
-ud

[Ed Oscuro]

That being said, HDTV's are already lag-free (from a human perspective) if you feed them their favourite signals.

Gigantic piles of converting and upscaling equipment sold to buyers of HDTVs say "that's nice."

[louisg]

I have an LCD monitor that claims to be 2ms lag.. as far as I can tell, it is. Is there a reason HDTV LCDs are worse than that? Doesn't everything have a "game mode" now?

[nZero]

I have an LCD monitor that claims to be 2ms lag.. as far as I can tell, it is. Is there a reason HDTV LCDs are worse than that? Doesn't everything have a "game mode" now?

Pixel response time is unrelated to input lag.

[louisg]

I have an LCD monitor that claims to be 2ms lag.. as far as I can tell, it is. Is there a reason HDTV LCDs are worse than that? Doesn't everything have a "game mode" now?

Pixel response time is unrelated to input lag.

So the pixel response time is a measure of blur (e.g. an old laptop might have terrible pixel response time)? I was thinking that response in games on my monitor is near-instantaneous.

[neorichieb1971]

Lag is not necessarily a selling feature of a TV. As long as the image is lip synching in the shop, nobody is going to complain at the stage of the sale.

There are many other factors that cause lag. Blue tooth and wireless controllers for a start. Therefore if you get a bit of lag from the controller, mix that in the loop and you might be hitting the nail on the head every time.

Lag is only noticed on the cheapest of TV's imo. I've always bought Sony and never EVER had any issues at all. In fact, my TV that I have now (KDL40W4500) got a review at HDTVtest.co.uk and it stated "Sony have sought to eliminate the "game mode", since its not really necessary considering the TV has virtually no lag".

I also consider lag to be somewhat over scrutinized as a problem from personal experience. The only time its bothered me is when playing some PS1 game on the PS3. It was so laggy I had to press the button .5 second in advance. Scary . This was due to the PS3 blue tooth controller. I played the exact same game on the PS2 via a wired controller and it worked fine. It also worked fine if I wired up the PS3 controller via the USB cable provided.

[Warp_Rattler]

So since this is a "how well do HDTVs deal with gaming" sort of thread, maybe I can get a few opinions here:

The wife and I are looking to get a new TV for the living room, and just about every store around us has a pretty affordable deal on this particular 32" 720p Samsung model. The size is just right as our living room's a bit small, the price is right about in the range we can afford, and it would be nice to try and run the DVD player (upscales to 1080p so I presume 720p is no problem?), Wii, and 360 on something with a bit more quality than composite connections provide. I'll be pleasantly surprised if the older consoles don't look like crap, and if they do there's always the old TV that can be set up elsewhere. Anyways, does anyone have this model of TV, and how is it with regards to blur, lag etc? The couch sits about 8 feet from the current TV if that means anything.

Apologies if this derails the purpose of the thread and should be split off somewhere else.

[neorichieb1971]

Samsung has always been the "Ok, we can't afford the top brands, but there is always Samsung".

Samsungs are not bad, but they are not good either. They sit comfortably in the neutral zone. Every now and again they pioneer some kind of technology but not very often. If your not getting one of those super duper 5mm thin jobbies then its fair to say you will be comfortably sitting in the neutral zone with your new Samsung HDTV.

I'm at work right now, sitting watching a monitor that just happens to be a Samsung HDTV. I would rank it a 6 or 7 out of 10. But then again my much more expensive Sony Bravia I would only rank as an 8/10. So only marginal better performance from a better brand. Pioneer Kuro's hit 10/10 everytime, but I suspect even the cheapest set is about 3 x what you want to spend.

With todays LCD technology, your actual grading the quality of the TV by these criteria -

Black levels
Lag
Upscaling technology.

The reason for this is because every HDTV does an 8 or 9/10 job on HDTV signals because thats what its designed for. If you skimp out on a cheap HDTV, your going to still get very acceptable quality on your HD viewing or HD console gaming. But when you downgrade the signal to Standard Definition, a can of worms opens for most people.

So starting on the concerned attributes -

Black levels - You can see this in the shop. Look around the TV at differing angles when the TV is displaying black bars at top and bottom and see if its black black, or some kind of greyed out black. Mark out of 10 for what you see. Generally, from an acute angle, you will normally see signs of the backlighting on LCD that causes a clouding effect. With plasma, no backlight is used, therefore its generally blacker by default.

Lag - Something you can't test in the shop. You have to use reviewers online to judge this.

Upscaling technology - This is hard to judge since only Terrestrial TV signals are low res these days. Almost every device out there in the shops upscales the image. DVD players and such don't often output SD, but a psuedo HD upscaled image. Unless you can plug a composite device into the TV, you probably aren't seeing the TV's upscaling technology at work. If your using a device that upscales the image before the TV receives it, its a moot point.