XRGB-3

[RGB32E]

There's is no 1024x768 in B1 mode. Maybe a bad flash of the B1 bank ? Are you able to change resolutions as supposed in B0 mode ? You can try to reflash the B1 firmware.

EDIT: I once had troubles with the B1 mode when B0 was set to a certain resolution (though it should not affect the B1). Try cycling through the resolutions using the front buttons while you're in B1. The LEDs on front will change accordingly.

I'm having trouble as well.... so, how do I confirm that I'm in B1 mode (even though if I enter the FPGA selection and see that B1 is set)? Which button to cycle screen resolution? Where is the scanline setting?

What LED position should be lit?

[Artemio]

you are in B1 mode if it is selected there. Otherwise select it as you mention, turn it off and then back on.

You cannot change the output res in B1 mode, it is just 640x480.

The scanline setting is below the FPGA one, it is VL_H. I use around 180 since it is what looks the most like my arcade cab monitor.

[RGB32E]

you are in B1 mode if it is selected there. Otherwise select it as you mention, turn it off and then back on.

You cannot change the output res in B1 mode, it is just 640x480.

The scanline setting is below the FPGA one, it is VL_H. I use around 180 since it is what looks the most like my arcade cab monitor.

So, I should power cycle the XRGB-3 after changing to B1?

[Konsolkongen]

Yes select B1 in the menu, turn off the unit and turn it back on and it should now be in B1 mode. This obviously won't work unless you have the B1 firmware installed

Don't worry you can't f... it up no matter what you do.

[Fudoh]

Also, when connecting my SNES via a stock SHVC-010, and setting the output resolution of 1920x1080 (B0)

good to hear that 1080p works for you. I haven't tried the 2.12 myself, but on earlier FWs the 1080p output wasn't compatible with my Sony LCD.

[RGB32E]

Also, my XRGB-3 was manufactured in August '09 (according to the markings on the bottom of the unit 8/09).

I haven't figured out how to enable DVI-D output. I know that DVI-D is disabled in B1...

I have a DVI-D to HDMI cable, and this works with any of the HDMI inputs on my Sony XBR8. I've tried two different PC video cards and both worked without problems on any of the HDMI inputs. With my DVI-D to HDMI cable, I've confirmed that one of my video card outputs HDMI via the DVI-I connector (feature of the nVidia GTS/X2xx series), and the other just outputs DVI-D (no HDMI over DVI-I connector).

So, how do I go about configuring the XRGB-3 to output DVI-D (in B0)?

I've tried:
1. Powered off the unit
2. Removed the VGA cable
3. Connected the DVI-D to HDMI cable from the DVI-D out connector to one of the HDMI inputs on my XBR8
4. Selected the connected HDMI input on the XBR8
5. Turned on the XRGB-3

Result: No signal....

[Fudoh]

Is actually anyone with a XRGB-3 using it's DVI-D output ?

Basically what you described is how it works. The tricky part is that not all resolution might work (try XGA 4:3 to be sure) and you might need to enable a specific active source. Again not all sources might work because the input sync is locked to the output sync somehow...

[Artemio]

I always use it in VGA mode (no further processing by the TV, great scaling form my set in that scenario, no delay form teh XRGB and scanlines are my reasons). But when I just bought it I was into using it via HDMI as well.

I never had any issues, it always has worked fine whenever I enable that but I believe I only tried the previous firmware versions and not this latest one. I'll give it ago tonight just to confirm that everything works as it did back then.

I also used a DVI-D to HDMI cable, the LCD I am using is the Samsung LN46A950 and so far everything has been perfect with teh XRGB-3 and XRGB-2. Mine was also manufactured this year as is also a 1.4 board version.

[RGB32E]

I tried switching the output resolution and got output via DVI-D to HDMI. Unfortunately, the 1080p DVI-D signal that the XRGB-3 outputs isn't something my XBR8 likes very much. As I mentioned before, when using a PC, I haven't had any issues with when connecting a DVI-D source, so it leads me to think that the XRGB-3's DVI-D could use some improvement and I'm not sure if this is merely a firmware issue, or the actual components used to generate the DVI-D signal (Tx).

However, the output via analog at 1080p is virtually perfect in B0. My TV doesn't apply edge enhancement (unless set by picture settings), so I get a crisp "pixel resize" result when in B0 @ 1920x1080... no ringing or other stuff... Despite Fudoh's issues with B0 mode on his XRGB-3, mine only has the issue of having a slight amount of input lag with B0. I just have to wonder why HDTVs can't have this type of functionality built in..? Hmm...

[Strider77]

I just have to wonder why HDTVs can't have this type of functionality built in..? Hmm..

how amazing that would be..... put my name on the list for that.

[Artemio]

Regarding the 1080p via DVI-D -> HDMI issues, I figured out how it worked on my TV. I need to set FULL HD to low and my TV to 4:3, otherwise it doesn't work. I am also using the input labeled HDMI/DVI. Hope this helps you get it working on your sets, it looks very sharp.. but the lack of scanlines and the input delay make me stay in B1 mode =P

[RGB32E]

Regarding the 1080p via DVI-D -> HDMI issues, I figured out how it worked on my TV. I need to set FULL HD to low and my TV to 4:3, otherwise it doesn't work. I am also using the input labeled HDMI/DVI. Hope this helps you get it working on your sets, it looks very sharp.. but the lack of scanlines and the input delay make me stay in B1 mode =P

Ahh... thanks for checking. I think I might have had the FULL HD setting to high at the time when I was testing this. Despite the higher input lag of B0 mode, I still prefer B0 (visually) to B1, but that's just me! Since I've switched the setting back to Low, it "should" work now...

Thanks for the info!

[Fudoh]

Tried any other systems besides your SNES yet ?

[RGB32E]

Tried any other systems besides your SNES yet ?

Yes, I've tried a couple of arcade boards via the D2 input (DB15) - Cadash and Neo Geo MVS. Both worked great in B0, looked like doo doo in B1. I could not get suitable AFC setting for a stable image for Cadash while in B1 mode (top of the screen is warped), perhaps the JP21 input works better... I use series resistors to lower the voltage of the arcade boards to begin with, so the 220 setting isn't required.

Sega Saturn (D2 input on VGA via RGBS)
-B0: Works great - However, I have to turn on LPF to eliminate seeing lighter pixels every other column of pixels. I'll have to work on some sort of sync cleaner, use composite video for sync, and/or JP21 input instead.
-B1: Can't get a stable image, even when trying all AFC levels.
Note: My Sega Saturn RGB cable uses CSYNC instead of composite video for sync.

Sega Genesis Model 2 (D2 input on VGA via RGBS)
-B0: Perfect! I don't need to use LPF!
-B1: Does not sync, so no picture. Perhaps JP21 input would work...?

Nintendo 64 with gamesx NEC RGB amp (Game/JP21 input via RGBCv):
-B0: Perfect! I don't need to use LPF!
-B1: Works... no issues. LPF needs to be enabled.

Turbo Duo with gamesx NEC RGB amp (D2 input on VGA via RGBS)
-B0: Almost perfect, if it wasn't for the jail bar effect with this family of systems...
-B1: Works... just the jail bars... LPF needs to be enabled.

Wii (D1 input using official D-Terminal cable-component video)
-B0: Looks alright... does the job of correcting the aspect ratio, as the Wii doesn't output 720x480, just 640x480. B1 is better suited for this system.
-B1: Works well... the Wii only looks good on a 4:3 CRT (SD or ED). However, B1 mode seems to be the best way to play my Wii on my XBR8...

I do not like LPF! It seems to always be necessary for B1 mode, with the exception of 480p via D-Terminal. On B0 mode, unless a particular system requires it, I get a sharper image with it turned OFF. LPF softens the image and adds what appears to me, some sort of edge enhancement/sharpening effect.

I will be building some adapters and some new cables for the JP21 input. Has anyone noticed any discrepancies between the D2 RGB input and the JP21 RGB input? (other than the 75/220 ohm setting)

[Fudoh]

Did you have a problem with the AFC setting on your Turbo Duo ? No matter which PCE I use (did try a Core Grafx, Duo, Duo-R and RX) I get either strong waves on top with low AFC settings or a shaky sync with AFC 4 or even 5 (which is neccessary to get rid of the wave).

I agree, it's a shame that the LPF is neccessary for many systems on B1. It's a design flaw in my opinion as every other video processor I know (even if they are 10 years old), manage to get rid any noise before processing without such a strong optional filter.

No differences between back and front RGB on my unit (early 2008, but PCB 1.4 as well), I just noticed that the left back D-Terminal is better than the front one for Progressive signals. Might be worth a test with your Wii.

Nevertheless I prefer B1. For 480i games I do because the deinterlacing in B0 really sucks and for 240p I prefer the picture with scanlines. I use the B0 mode for PSP only. It's very nice using the PSP fullscreen feature on a PSP2000's progressive output.

I'll get my 2nd Wii early december. I plan to run it through a transcoder only, at least for everything that outputs 480p.

[RGB32E]

I tried changing the FULL_HD setting to both LOW and HIGH and had the same results - no 1080p signal recognised on my TV! However, the analog connection I'm using right now is quite sharp and virtually noise free. A DVI-D to HDMI connection might improve the picture slightly... ugg always something.

Even more interesting is that I tried connecting my XRGB-3 to a friend's HDTV and could not get a picture at all! I found this quite strange. I tried cycling the resolution output via the front panel button, but didn't get a signal. I had left the FULL_HD set to HIGH before connecting the XRGB-3 to the friend's HDTV (via PC input). Pehaps some TVs are sensitive to this setting?

On my XBR8 via analog out, I have not encountered any issue regardless of the FULL_HD setting. Does anyone know exactly what the FULL_HD setting does? When I change it on my TV, the picture blanks for a split second, and I don't notice much of a difference. Perhaps the brightness is slightly lower on the LOW setting, but both HIGH and LOW work... Hmm...

[RGB32E]

Did you have a problem with the AFC setting on your Turbo Duo ? No matter which PCE I use (did try a Core Grafx, Duo, Duo-R and RX) I get either strong waves on top with low AFC settings or a shaky sync with AFC 4 or even 5 (which is neccessary to get rid of the wave).

I'll get my 2nd Wii early december. I plan to run it through a transcoder only, at least for everything that outputs 480p.

As I stated NEC RGB works in B1 mode with my HW, though I did have the top part of the screen skewed similar to your experience. I'll have to double check as to what my Turbo Duo does. The behavior of the AFC setting in B1 mode is what you're asking, right? I'm able to get a stable signal in B1, but I think the top 16 rows of pixels are skewed as well...

However, in B0 mode, all is good. I like sharp pixels... if I wanted scan lines, I'd use my PVM!

Will you be getting the new black Wii? I'd like to get one myself... I guess I'll wait until I can get a good price to purchase another...

[Artemio]

I tried changing the FULL_HD setting to both LOW and HIGH and had the same results - no 1080p signal recognised on my TV! However, the analog connection I'm using right now is quite sharp and virtually noise free. A DVI-D to HDMI connection might improve the picture slightly... ugg always something.

Even more interesting is that I tried connecting my XRGB-3 to a friend's HDTV and could not get a picture at all! I found this quite strange. I tried cycling the resolution output via the front panel button, but didn't get a signal. I had left the FULL_HD set to HIGH before connecting the XRGB-3 to the friend's HDTV (via PC input). Pehaps some TVs are sensitive to this setting?

On my XBR8 via analog out, I have not encountered any issue regardless of the FULL_HD setting. Does anyone know exactly what the FULL_HD setting does? When I change it on my TV, the picture blanks for a split second, and I don't notice much of a difference. Perhaps the brightness is slightly lower on the LOW setting, but both HIGH and LOW work... Hmm...

It doesn't do anything via the analog out on my set, but as I mentioned above it was not jsut the Full HD that needed to be set.. my Tv needed to be in 4:3 mode or it wouldn't display the XRGB-3's 1080p signal. Very weird indeed.

I don't use the DVI-D anyway, I can't notice any difference between the VGA and DVI-D settings in B0 mode in regular use, and haven't really checked out if there's any since I use it in B1 mode most of the time. The only cases I've been forced to use B0 is when using a couple of bootleg PCB boards, since B1 can't sync with those no matter what I do.

[Fudoh]

I tried changing the FULL_HD setting to both LOW and HIGH

in which menu is the Full-HD Setting located ? I remember it from the 2.1x FWs, but I don't have it on my current one.

The behavior of the AFC setting in B1 mode is what you're asking, right?

yes, and especially with HIGH AFC setting, so that the skew on the top's gone.

Will you be getting the new black Wii?

yes, Black Wii + NSMB + S&P2 + DS LL = my x'mas present.

[RGB32E]

It doesn't do anything via the analog out on my set, but as I mentioned above it was not jsut the Full HD that needed to be set.. my Tv needed to be in 4:3 mode or it wouldn't display the XRGB-3's 1080p signal. Very weird indeed.

I don't use the DVI-D anyway, I can't notice any difference between the VGA and DVI-D settings in B0 mode in regular use, and haven't really checked out if there's any since I use it in B1 mode most of the time. The only cases I've been forced to use B0 is when using a couple of bootleg PCB boards, since B1 can't sync with those no matter what I do.

Hmm... Sony does things differently than Samsung. Screen/aspect ratio settings are not always available for adjustment when no signal is detected. I'll try connecting a source to one of my HDMI inputs, and set it to the 4:3 equivalent setting, then try connecting the XRGB-3. So, I'll fiddle with different screen settings to try and coax my TV. I'll agree that with the XRGB-3, and a good HDTV (the XBR8 and A950 were the top LCDs for 2008), a 1920x1080 signal via analog or digital is hard to distiguish (depending upon source signal quality). Though many plasmas don't accept anything above 1360x768 on their analog PC input (e.g. Pioneer and Panasonic plasmas).

I have around 40 arcade boards, and I've only tested two so far. I have different devices I can try to get a better sync for B1 mode, but I still like B0 better!

[RGB32E]

in which menu is the Full-HD Setting located ? I remember it from the 2.1x FWs, but I don't have it on my current one.

Menu -> Second to last item -> Second to last item

yes, and especially with HIGH AFC setting, so that the skew on the top's gone.

TBA

yes, Black Wii + NSMB + S&P2 + DS LL = my x'mas present.

Hmm... I think I'll wait till for the US release of Sin and Punishment 2, and the DSi XL. Have fun waiting till December!

[Konsolkongen]

I just got a Master System Converter II for my MegaDrive today. Hurray! now i can play my Master System games which have been collecting dust for years.

Unfortunately i can't get a picture on my XRGB-3 in B1 mode when using this thing. Its the same on both the D2 and RGBs input.
If i switch to B0 mode and disables V-sync i do get a picture. But i really was looking forward to playing with scanlines :p so do any of you have an idea why i don't get a picture in B1 mode? I've tried the most obvious AFC settings and V-sync on/off but it didn't make a difference :/ Could it be because of the LM1881 chip that i installed in the MegaDrives RGBs cable?

Atm my XRGB-3 is in B0 mode in 1280x1024 and DOT_by_DOT turned on for correct aspect ratio/scaling. My tv is 1080p native and shows 1280x1024 in 1:1 by adding a little underscan in the top and bottom of the screen. Very clever IMO.
LPF had to be turned OFF because it added a little flicker in the image and with that off the picture is even sharper. This is the most PERFECT picture anyone will ever get when using original hardware on a HDTV set!!

Only downside is that i can't have V-sync on, so slight stuttering appears every now and then. This really isn't that big a deal because it seems almost every Master System game i have suffers from slowdowns anyway... And of course no matter how emulator-perfect-like this looks i still would have preferred scanlines in B1

I should also mention that my MegaDrive II has the best picture/sound output of any MegaDrive i have had so far. I have heard rumors that the MegaDrive 1 should have better sound, but on the two MD1-consoles i've had so far its never been nearly as good as this, add jailbars in the picture and there really is no comparison. MultiMega was even worse...

I also played around with the XRGB-3's 480i capabilities which in my opinion always has been a bit shitty. I decided to test it again, this time using a Dreamcast with a RGBs cable, Rayman 2 and SEGA Smashpack vol 1. Normally i use an original SEGA VGA box on my Dreamcast and the picture is extremely good so i knew already that what the XRGB-3 would output would be quite a lot worse.

After testing a bit i found that in 1280x1024 B0 (the highest resolution my tv will accept from the XRGB-3) mode the picture was actually pretty good. There is some noticable interlacing when moving around in Rayman 2, but the picture is soo much sharper than when connected to my tvs RGBs input. Nowhere near VGA sharp but still pretty damn good, and i would choose interlacing any day over the blurry composite-like picture my tv gives me. Biggest problem is that the XRGB-3 HAS to have the DOT_by_DOT option enabled otherwise the picture is stretched unevenly and will look fucked up in places, this also means that the picture will be smaller than what were used to, so even more underscan on my tv :S Still i think the picture sharpness is a little better than the alternative.

I also checked with my copy of SEGA Smashpack, which holds probably the worst emulated versions of some of the best MegaDrive games ever! I could go on, and on about how shitty these emulations are but thats not really the point is it? Besides Virtua Cop 2 is on the disc so i guess that kinda makes up for some of it.
But this disc is still kind of kewl as the emulated MD games will show in VGA which makes them look perfect, and 480i which is good for comparing the VGA signal that i'm used to with the XRGB-3's 480i capabilities.

Its hard to notice when playing 3D games but when playing Sonic 1 in 480i throuh my tv set its very easy to spot all the interpolation when moving around. The picture is so bad its almost unbelievable In 480i through my XRGB-3 the picture is a lot sharper, there is no interpolation when moving around but there is some deinterlacing and underscan but still its a lot better overall that what my tv does.

Best possible Sonic 1-picture on my TV:

#1: Dreamcast in VGA - Picture is PERFECT but the emulation is so bad that i can't recommend it to anyone.
#2: MegaDrive 2/Sega Saturn (Sonic JAM) trough XRGB in B1 mode with or without scanlines*
#3: Dreamcast 480i through XRGB-3
#4: Dreamcast 480i connected to tv's RGB input - Its rubbish.

*B0 mode only seems to give a "PERFECT" image when using the Master System Converter II, without it the MegaDrive looks very very good but B1 mode looks the same, obviously i'd choose B1 mode without the 20ms delay.

The reason why i'm interested in 480i from a Dreamcast when i usually only use VGA is because i will soon be getting some of the retarded releases that won't work in VGA mode. 4-Wheel Thunder for example.

Anything you guys would like to add? Have i overseen anything that could make my 480i experiences on the XRGB-3 even better?

Also Fudoh, how does the 480i capabilities on the XRGB-3 compare to the Optoma HD3000 (still haven't bought one yet...), i'm interested in that mainly because of 480i (PS2, GC, XBOX and DC).

I should also mention that my tv does 480i from a PS2 with component cables WAY better than the XRGB-3. Picture is very sharp but still gets interpolated when moving. Strange that there is such a huge difference in RGBs and Component :/

I hope i got all that "Interpolation" and "Interlacing" right. Interpolation is when the picture gets softened and rounded when moving around and Interlacing is when every other horizontal line seems out of place when moving left to right or vice versa, right?

[Fudoh]

It's been a good year or so, but I once had a friend over along with his MD + Master System Adapter (the old one) and the combo worked fine through RGB on front in B1 mode. I remember, because he planned on buying a XRGB after seeing it on my setup. You might want to try it without the LM1881.

Interpolation is when the picture gets softened and rounded when moving around and Interlacing is when every other horizontal line seems out of place when moving left to right or vice versa, right?

yes, that's right.

The XRGB's B0 deinterlacing just isn't very good, you get lot of combing errors and lots of deinterlacing artefacts. For timing-sensitive PS2 480i games I use B1. The XRGB skips the deinterlacing and just outputs the fields one after another, just on a CRT. The HD3000 has much better 480i picture quality, but it still tends to produce combing errors on fast action games. The timing-uncritial games the HD3000 would be first choice though (although there's a little signal-related issue which I haven resolved yet).

[Artemio]

If it helps in any way, a US Sega Master System through RGB works without issues through the XRGB-3 in B1 mode. Maybe it is indeed the LM1881. You should probably install a switch for it.

[Konsolkongen]

Thanks for the responses. I'll see if i can fit a switch in the cable

[RGB32E]

@Fudoh:

I checked my Turbo Duo in B1 mode earlier today and found that that best AFC setting for me is 4. I get a little bit of skew at the top, and every 10 seconds or so there is a slight jump. If I lower the setting or raise the setting, the screen jumps every frame (up and down for the most part). The lower I set the AFC, the more curling I get at the top of the image. My RGB connection differs from yours. My amp is different, and I amplify CSYNC from the Hu6260 instead of using composite video for sync. The V-Sync setting doesn't seem to change or improve anything when enabled. So, I think that's the biggest difference.

That brings me to another point, when enabling v-sync in B0 mode, the image goes crazy. Is this due to the restrictions of the PC input on my TV? In B1 mode, v-sync doesn't cause any problems... hmmm...

Regarding the Genesis systems. My RGB cable uses composite sync, which is connected through a LM1881 and Hex buffer. This was my solution for my FC-14 RGB to Component converter, as I was getting noise and a brighter image on the left hand side when just filtering CSYNC with a 100uF capacitor.

So, does one have to use composite video as sync on the XRGB-3 for B1 mode to work? From my experience with the FC-14, if I used composite sync through my LM1881+hex buffer circuit, I got an image with jail bars (similar to my description of the Sega Saturn in B0 mode). I suppose using LPF in B1 is a given, but using composite video for sync, even on my PVM-2030 produced a jail bar image (every other column of pixels is brighter). Hence, composite video as sync from the genesis systems sucks! Meh....

[Fudoh]

That brings me to another point, when enabling v-sync in B0 mode, the image goes crazy. Is this due to the restrictions of the PC input on my TV? In B1 mode, v-sync doesn't cause any problems... hmmm...

can't be generalized. On other systems it's the other way around. With the UVC I tried today, I can eable VSync in B0, but not in B1. Still I don't have good V-Synx experiences in general. On my PS2 for example is produces a weird feathering effect in B0...

UVC + XRGB-3

Today I tried the UVC (Universal Video Converter) with the XRGB-3. The little Ultracade device basically does the same as the Emotia units. Take in VGA, SVGA or XGA and output 320x240 RGB. Quality is nice, but neither better or worse than the newer Emotia units (Super Em. II etc). It can be used to re-scanline VGA output like the DC (Mars Matrix) or the XBox360 (Death Smiles). It can also be used to connect a MAME setup to the XRGB-3 without having to care about scanline emulation in the emu itself. Much easier this way with all the different settings in all the different emus...







EDIT: and two Xbox360 shots:

[RGB32E]

Oh Fudoh, you and your scanline pursuits! If I wanted to play games with scanlines, I'd use a CRT! Though I will agree that B1 mode is the way to go for 480i and 480p sources. As you already know, a dedicated transcoder is ideal for 480p component sources... I have an Extron CVC 200 that works pretty well for Wii at 480p. Unfortunately, I get a vertical line through part of the screen when using it with my Wii. Even if I tweak the phase setting on my TV screen menu, it still pops up from time to time... The unit has 10 different format selections, perhaps I should try another compatible setting and see if the issue can be resolved (I think I've already gone through this process before).

[Strider77]

I think it's more correct to say.... if you want scanlines AND still be able to play hi-rez games in hi-rez...... you need a HDTV and a XRGB.

Really.... who wants to play a HD game in SD.

[Artemio]

I think there are even more factors. I have an arcade monitor in my cabinet, and can plug the consoles as well. But the factors that make me want to use my setup are: play from my sofa, high quality audio and the size of the TV.

I used to have a Loewe 38" CRT TV, but now it is a 46" LCD. Playing in in with scanlines gives me the look I want with the audio I want and the rest of the factors.

The use of scanlines in my case is to match the look in crt or my arcade monitor (slighter there) and also having a closer to the original image, having the extra lines from the line doubling looks nice but I rather not have those "unexistant" lines shown.