Some thoughts about current gen game creation.

[neorichieb1971]

I think one factor is that what passes for game journalism generally sucks, and rarely gives out the sort of critical feedback it should. Neither do many gamers, and places like here where people will go on and on about play mechanics etc are just considered these wacky little groups of elitist nutcases.

Yeah, I know the kind.. check out the shmups section or read any of the strategy forums and you'll think your reading dialog from another planet.

[dcharlie]

Does anyone have a favourite game that was made this gen?

all time favourite? no

top 10 material? definitely.

top 50? yeah. seeing a ton.

[louisg]

Does anyone have a favourite game that was made this gen?

Does Under Defeat count? It's from 2006 and has sparks! Seriously though, I think there are at least some contenders. I can't count Mario Galaxy, for example, as my favorite, but I do think it's the best 3d Mario by far. SI Extreme is also current gen, and that's pretty great. I haven't kept up with mainstream game genres this generation too much, but I don't doubt there's some good stuff out there. I do believe though that the best of a generation tends to emerge after all the oohs and ahhs have died down, so it really is probably too early to speculate.

[dcharlie]

Seriously though, I think there are at least some contenders. I can't count Mario Galaxy, for example, as my favorite, but I do think it's the best 3d Mario by far. SI Extreme is also current gen, and that's pretty great. I haven't kept up with mainstream game genres this generation too much, but I don't doubt there's some good stuff out there. I do believe though that the best of a generation tends to emerge after all the oohs and ahhs have died down, so it really is probably too early to speculate.

yup - we need to wait till the PS4 and X720 so that people can say "this gen is crap, last gen was so amazing with games like <game> <game> and <game>. THAT'S IT I AM DONE WITH GAMING <tip over magazine rack>"

[TLB]

Does anyone have a favourite game that was made this gen?

Does Under Defeat count? It's from 2006 and has sparks! :D Seriously though, I think there are at least some contenders. I can't count Mario Galaxy, for example, as my favorite, but I do think it's the best 3d Mario by far. SI Extreme is also current gen, and that's pretty great. I haven't kept up with mainstream game genres this generation too much, but I don't doubt there's some good stuff out there. I do believe though that the best of a generation tends to emerge after all the oohs and ahhs have died down, so it really is probably too early to speculate.

I would love to take UD too, louis :)

Also, I'm sure there are at least a few people whose favorite game starts with M and ends in etal Gear Solid 4. I still haven't played it yet, unfortunately =/

[jonny5]

bioshock was pretty bad ass!! its one of the only FPS's i ever played all the way through....

left4 dead too....mind you i probably wouldnt be interested in it at all if not for the zombies.....

[dcharlie]

left4 dead too....mind you i probably wouldnt be interested in it at all if not for the zombies.....

left4dead is next gen's Gauntlet, outrageous fun and never the same twice.

Anyways, i guess this leads me in to one complaint that i always have whenever these threads come up : it's gameplay mechanics that have tended to feel diluted as gens progress, i think people get hung up too much on graphical styles and realism. L4D is one of many examples where the game looks "realistic" but has great gameplay mechanics - i mean, the utter panic the first time someone accidentally sets off a car alarm.

The big blight on the current gen is there are a ton of cookie cutter games -especially- in the FPS genre that do absolutely nothing to seperate themselves from the crowd ... though ,hell, people tend to forget how many by-the-numbers retrogames there were too.

bioshock was pretty bad ass

the gameplay itself was good, but the setting, atmosphere and Fort Frolic elavate it significantly. It's a much better game with the vita-chambers off ; the instant respawn kills any tension the game has. Also - i thought i'd figured the twist out a few times, but when it dropped i was nowhere near. Unfortunately after that the game kind of falls off a fair bit.

NeoRichie - out of interest : have you tried Portal?

[neorichieb1971]

Dcharlie,

RE4, SoTC, GOW 1 and 2 were my favourite games last gen, and they did come late on.. well most of them did.

But there were oddball games that stuck out early that really gained my interest. Luigi's mansion and Super monkey ball.. Onimusha, Rez.. I believe that Tekken Tag Tournament is probably better than Tekken 6. Ridge Racer 5 was better than any RR game after it.

So its not only a case of less variety (as you can see a few of those games up there are oddball games), but the franchises got weaker as they got graphically more impressive (imo).

Burnout is a classic case of taking a franchise away from its roots and making a circus of the game. The amount of shit you have to do in that game defies belief. You should have a choice to play the game in a linear fashion. All that inbetween stuff is totally fat that can be cut away. Although its still an enjoyable game imo.

So now we have the nextgen games with knobs on, the ones that take you even further away from the roots of the game.. The dreaded "this controller is needed to play this game!".. Well, thats a different story, but imo, if you can do it with the pad, then let people play it with the pad. If your going to add XYZ axis controlling then you need an interface and type of programming that goes beyond what games are about today. Not just adding light censor controlling and putting the label "Waggle edition" on the box.. Thats pathetic.

[Taylor]

Wipeout is quite large for a PSN game, no?

[dcharlie]

But there were oddball games that stuck out early that really gained my interest. Luigi's mansion and Super monkey ball.. Onimusha, Rez.. I believe that Tekken Tag Tournament is probably better than Tekken 6. Ridge Racer 5 was better than any RR game after it.

can't speak for Tekken 6 as i've yet to boot it up, but Ridge 6 and 7 were both better than 5 IMO. Some ways better infact - though i always thought that RR5 was largely average and not a patch on RR4. Infact, RR5 strikes me as a posterboy game for -exactly- what you don't like about modern games : it looked better but the gameplay itself was either stagnated or taken a step back. RR5 still remains one of my biggest disappointing games of all time. I bought my import PS2 for RR5

So its not only a case of less variety (as you can see a few of those games up there are oddball games), but the franchises got weaker as they got graphically more impressive (imo).

it's too easy to make a sweeping generatlisation - Burnout already started deteriorating before it got off the last gen, i thought the pre-Paradise next gen games were decent enough but can't really get in to Paradise.

Again, i've said this before : there are a ton of games out there - not necessarily follow ups - that would/could impress anyone if they approach them in the right frame of mind. Portal is one of them IMO. One of the best gaming experiences out there.

[neorichieb1971]

I've got your post count up to 308

Your heart rate will be up that high soon as well j/k


Ridge Racer 4 wasn't bad, but I didn't like it as much as 5. Burnout 2 was my favourite, so we agree there. Portal, never played. I've never even heard of that Dracula X game earlier either.

I have put Tekken 5 in my atomiswave and via the 480p option it looks almost as good as T6 with much less loading times. Tekken 6 would look better on a bigger screen obviously. But for the average TV user, the longer loading times and silly scrolling beat em up game that is required to be beaten to unlock characters just kills it. You'd have to have the patience of a saint.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Wipeout is quite large for a PSN game, no?

Yes, Wipeout HD and it's upgraded brethen, Wipeout HD Fury weighs in at a bloated1,841MB file size with version 2.10 as of right now. It would be wise of SCEA to release a retail Blu-Ray disc of Wipeout HD and Wipeout HD Fury for the North American market complete with disc, instruction manual & PS3 gamebox for completeness. I would gladly pay for one upon day one of release.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[dcharlie]

you can snag the Asian BR version of Wipeout+Fury which is exactly that (and obviously region free)

[louisg]

At the risk of staying on topic, maybe we should focus on what makes this generation different. I mean, bad games have always been prominent. If you look at mags in the 16-bit era, which is my favorite era, you'd think the hottest games out were Bubsy and Eternal Champions. Obviously, as time passes, games which were hyped but suck fade. So do games who only have technical merit or were groundbreaking but don't play well. So, here are some trends which are actually new:

- It's taking more and more money to produce the kinds of cinematic games that emerged in the 32-bit era. This obviously has an effect on the kinds of games being greenlit, and the risks being taken (or not)
- There is a resurgence in classic-style games due to wiiware, xbla, and general NES/8-bit fetishism. There's both good and bad here.
- Wii controls are new. This leads to both games which control great (Mario Galaxy, The Conduit), and total disasters (too many to count)
- An increased focus on the casual market. This is perceived as being completely new, but is actually not as much as we tend to think. If you look at Wikipedia's top games by console, you'll find that the top list is mostly cross-gender cross-age-group crowd-pleasers like Super Mario Bros, Sonic, and Tetris.

Ready?.. ARGUE!

[neorichieb1971]

The industry invented the $30m game. Nobody else did.

It was the people behind PS2 and Xbox that forced gaming into this direction. It is the industry that chose to make games online, to make them complicated, realistic, violent and industrial. It is the industry itself that chooses where to cop out and do a lousy job on a game. It is the games industry itself that has taught itself to lie out loud about what is going to be possible, against what is to be delivered. It is the games industry itself that decides to make what it wants, irregardless of what fans before decided they wanted next.

Nintendo fans didn't want a wii..

Sony fans didn't want to pay for blu ray drives

Xbox fans didn't want a system that broke down at an alarming rate of frequency.

90% of fans don't want a download only service. But will inevitably get one by being sold lots of crap about how its beneficial and cheaper etc etc.

The games industry wants to make more FPS games, because they already know how to make them and know that they sell. Goes for every genre really. So don't expect much to change soon.

These are the things that are wrong with the games industry. Nobody listens, everyone is sold.

[dcharlie]

So don't expect much to change soon.

yet again , you are wilfully ignoring the games that ARE different

log off, go play Portal, Braid, L4D, checkout some indie games etc etc etc

[louisg]

It was the people behind PS2 and Xbox that forced gaming into this direction. . . . It is the industry itself that chooses where to cop out and do a lousy job on a game. It is the games industry itself that has taught itself to lie out loud about what is going to be possible, against what is to be delivered. It is the games industry itself that decides to make what it wants, irregardless of what fans before decided they wanted next.

Nintendo fans didn't want a wii..

Sony fans didn't want to pay for blu ray drives

Xbox fans didn't want a system that broke down at an alarming rate of frequency.

...

The games industry wants to make more FPS games, because they already know how to make them and know that they sell. Goes for every genre really. So don't expect much to change soon.

These are the things that are wrong with the games industry. Nobody listens, everyone is sold.

To go back to a time when it wasn't, you'd have to look at the early 80s scene. This was back when one programmer or small teams could make games, and you had Activision and EA bragging about how individualistic their games were. I think things really did change around the NES-- tons of sequels to established franchises, almost nothing but very similar platformers (action/adventures). If a port to the NES didn't have bosses, bosses were added. Everything was very cookie-cutter, and Nintendo treated developers so badly that you'd wish you had a SCEA monopoly instead. Now, we look back on that era and think it's classic.

Online games have also existed since the 70s, in a form not really all that different from what we have now. I think the difference now is that all these genres are on console, where before they were only on computer-- and in the case of MUDs, you had to be pretty nerdy to know about them But I don't know if it's really PS2 and XBox's fault: The Dreamcast was very online-oriented, even though nobody had broadband then. Phantasy Star Online seems like it did pretty well, and was probably the first successful console MMORPG. Unlike earlier systems, the DC's multiplayer was across the internet, not a direct modem connection. I don't know if you can pin this one on Sega; it, like downloadable games and patches, was bound to happen sooner or later with new technology.

And, people vote with their wallet. People continue to buy breaky consoles, and violent, bloated $30m games. Nintendo fans may or may not have wanted a Wii, but I should point out that Nintendo's purely game-oriented no-frills great-graphics-for-the-money non-breaking fast-loading GameCube flopped horribly.

I also am finding it really interesting that younger (I assume?) members of the forum are seeing this current gen as the point everything went to hell. For me, and probably other shmup-obsessed people on this forum, it was the 32-bit era. Suddenly, everything was 3d. Now, I loved Doom, but I considered 3d to be a horrible misstep for most genres, mostly because back then I don't think the hardware and camera routines were really up to the task, and 3d gameplay is inherently less precise.

[Taylor]

The industry does different things and the ones that work (read: sell) stick around and get built up. This is how it's always been, by the way. Remember when everyone was suprised as EA did all those unique games? None of them sold. And they just let 1,500 people go.

[Specineff]

you can snag the Asian BR version of Wipeout+Fury which is exactly that (and obviously region free)

What about the Euro version? Or is it locked to 50 Hz?

[t0yrobo]

Nintendo fans didn't want a wii..

Sony fans didn't want to pay for blu ray drives

Xbox fans didn't want a system that broke down at an alarming rate of frequency.

90% of fans don't want a download only service. But will inevitably get one by being sold lots of crap about how its beneficial and cheaper etc etc.

The sad thing is fans won't make a single decent effort to stop any of this, and the industry isn't likely to listen anyways.
The best example I can think of to show just how stupid so many gamers are is back when Halo 2 was fairly new. Awhile after the game came out they announced a dlc pack. It was to be at a cost ($10 I think) for around 3 months, then it would be free.
Now never mind the fact that to anyone who played fps' on pc the idea of paying for a handful of maps is absurd. Tons of people still went off and paid good money for this crap, knowing that it would be free soon. And people are surprised when companies think that they can take advantage of their customers with dlc, people have been proving that they can pretty much as long as dlc has been on consoles.

[Stormwatch]

If I won the lottery today, I'd give money to Konami to make a completely new 2D Castletroid for consoles.

Then I'd punch your guts for financing a Metroidvania rather than a TRUE Castlevania.

[Ed Oscuro]

yup - we need to wait till the PS4 and X720 so that people can say "this gen is crap, last gen was so amazing with games like <game> <game> and <game>. THAT'S IT I AM DONE WITH GAMING <tip over magazine rack>"

The last gen is usually the best because that's when the games come down in price

[dcharlie]

The last gen is usually the best because that's when the games come down in price

i think it's more that once a gen is over people forget about the crud, or long periods of no-games, etc. and the quality items in the library get condensed into one nice neat instance.

people forget there was a whole load of crap in the SNES catalogue in amongst the numerous gems. Current gen doesn't seem too different and once it's over people will look back and tally the good titles whilst ignoring the mass of shovelware.

[dan76]

I really don't like the way that most current gen fps' hand-hold you through the entire game - look here, quickly there, take this, go... Fuck off - I don't want to have to heal an AI team mate, it's his fault for getting shot... Playing as part of an AI team is now the norm because it's "just like" online play - but I wish developers would take the time to really work on a solid single player experience - think Goldeneye, think Resident Evil 4. Alone, against the hoard - much like a shmup. I'm thinking that it wouldn't be too difficult, say with something like Left 4 Dead - lone survivor mode - tweak the AI, damage levels etc. Resident Evil 5 was ruined as a single player game with forced co-op and real time inventory management (that, plus poor level design, it was set during the day and didn't bother trying to scare you...).

Also, these types of games are getting shorter, and they seem to be based around environments that double for online matches. I guess it's quicker to develop a set of areas that can be played differently online rather than a longer more linear path. There's room for both game types, but it seems team play and online co-op is ruling the current gen FPS - it's the way to go I suppose, but as single player games they've really lost something.


fave current gen game - Deathsmiles

[neorichieb1971]

I really don't like the way that most current gen fps' hand-hold you through the entire game - look here, quickly there, take this, go... Fuck off - I don't want to have to heal an AI team mate, it's his fault for getting shot... Playing as part of an AI team is now the norm because it's "just like" online play - but I wish developers would take the time to really work on a solid single player experience - think Goldeneye, think Resident Evil 4. Alone, against the hoard - much like a shmup. I'm thinking that it wouldn't be too difficult, say with something like Left 4 Dead - lone survivor mode - tweak the AI, damage levels etc. Resident Evil 5 was ruined as a single player game with forced co-op and real time inventory management (that, plus poor level design, it was set during the day and didn't bother trying to scare you...).

Also, these types of games are getting shorter, and they seem to be based around environments that double for online matches. I guess it's quicker to develop a set of areas that can be played differently online rather than a longer more linear path. There's room for both game types, but it seems team play and online co-op is ruling the current gen FPS - it's the way to go I suppose, but as single player games they've really lost something.


fave current gen game - Deathsmiles

I'll send you to college to get those grades you need to become a developer hehe.


Dcharlie, I won't buy an Xbox. If any of those games come to PS3 I will buy them since you insist. Sorry, but I will never pay any money into Microsofts gaming division. I don't like green, I don't like their online vision of making everything like facebook. Thats exactly where I don't want gaming to go. I think its because I'm a one console man these days.. The last 2 generations i've had at least 2, if not all the consoles released.

[dcharlie]

you will not buy games on platform from wanky company A

... but you will from wanky company b?

massive MASSIVE fail IMO - AGAIN.

[neorichieb1971]

Wanky company B makes a console with blu ray drive that I have over 160 movies on.

I don't see why I should buy another console from wanky company A just to play 3 or 4 exclusive games. Left 4 dead 2 is coming out on PS3, I'll try that next

What you see is console loyalty. What I see is just common sense. I also see that some people will buy every console, which I did once upon a time. But these days, wow wee.. I just read a thread on another forum and someone bought modern warfare on ps3 and xbox. That to me is just OTT.

The best news this week is that Sainsbury's and Asda are selling Modern Warfare 2 for £26 and £32 respectively. I'm not buying it though. Apparently in the airport you have to mow down innocent people to complete the level. That is immoral to put in a game. Realism is just going too far imo.

[louisg]

The solution is to wait until console A is $100 or less. I don't think I've ever owned more than one current-gen still-supported console at a time. Actually, I usually just get one or two current gen games and mostly play past gens

[neorichieb1971]

The console price is not that important. Its the additions. These days its not the console and 2 joypads. Its cameras, controllers, keyboards, wifi, HDD's.. Then you need somewhere to put all that stuff. Like I said, you can buy most games for both systems with only a select few being exclusive. So buying both machines is rather silly unless your really needing exclusives on both.

As for the Wii, thats a peripheral nightmare isn't it?

PS3 has more upgradable options. Especially things like USB joypads, PC HDD's.. and you don't have internet charges added. It doubles up as a blu ray player and guess what, it plays games as well. Not many good ones, but just enough to keep me happy for now.

Last Gen I almost bought an Xbox when it got cheap. But then the 360 came out pretty much straight away, so I waited.. still waiting lol.

[louisg]

As for the Wii, thats a peripheral nightmare isn't it?

I dunno, one thing I do like about the Wii is that I can stash it and all its controllers in a small space next to my TV. The thing's tiny, and I wouldn't have enough room to have a much larger console hooked up all the time-- without moving my Duo-R, which is NOT happening

(and I still kinda want an XBox 1 for the Sega games)