Biceps, Triceps, Shoulders, hand weights & Water Polo...

[ST Dragon]

Good day,
I play water polo / swimming 4 times a week, running 2-3 times a week and work out at home 3-4 times a week (various sets of Push-ups, pull-ups & ab crunches).
Overall I'm well built and in good health.

I recently bought a pair of adjustable hand weights that can be a Min of 3kg to a Max of 15kg.
My goal is to increase the muscle mass and volume of my biceps, triceps, shoulders & chest without having to go to the Gym or use steroids & other extras...

What is the best strategy that I should follow:

1.Increase the weight of the hand weights and do less repeats for each set of specialized exercises for the biceps, triceps & shoulders 3 times a week?

Or..

2.Decrease the weight of the hand weights and do more repeats for each set of specialized exercises for the biceps, triceps & shoulders 3 times a week?

Do I have to increase the amount of daily protein / meat that I consume? At the moment I eat red meat 1-2 times a week and the rest of the week, I have a balanced Mediterranean diet, dairy products, carbohydrates, salads, seafood, etc...

I have little experience with weights so any help or other suggestions will be highly appreciated!

Thanks in advance

[elfhentaifan]

if you want to built up on your power and increase the mass of your muscles you will have to increase the weight for the hand weight and and work with less repeats

if you want to build up on endurance for your muscles (your muscles wont really grow with that) you should work with lighter weights and then do more repeats.

[Solarus]

General rule:

raw Strength/Power - 3-5 rep sets (working towards a 1 rep max with some routines)
Muscular Hypertrophy - 8-12 rep sets
Endurance/rarely ever used with non body-weight exercises - anything greater than 12 reps, with direct size being inversely proportional to the increase in reps.

I wouldn't work the same muscle groups 3 times a week, that would put you in over-training range. Ideally, you're supposed to give yourself 72 hours rest in between working the same muscle group. Also for ideal hypertrophy, you're supposed to have a minimum of 0.8-1.2 grams of protein per kilogram you weigh each day and 2 grams of carbs per kilo you weigh each day. Make sure to eat in 5-7 small meals instead of 3 large ones, as that induces an even insulin distribution for a nitrogenously positive/androgenous body, (try to eat once every 3 hours) and if you're trying to build muscle, eat a ton, as you can't gain anything unless you exceed the number of calories you burn a day

[Diabollokus]

I'm currently in the body building routine since I've been off work for a bit. Actually quite impressed by solarus comment, hes spot on for the most part. Diet, protein intake, reps etc has been mentioned so I'll just comment on exercises.

Biceps: standing hammer curls, chin ups and concentration curls. I use EZ bar curls for best results, chin ups with weights on a belt is excellent aswell, just keep changing your hand position.

Triceps: Dips with a belt if you find it easy, skull crushers (tricky with free weights though), Close grip push ups aswell but you probably find them too easy i.e. reps to high for mass gain. You can do tricep extensions aswell but I don't like them. Close grip dumbell bench press is another option. Dumbell pull overs is an alternative to skull crushers.

Shoulders: Lateral and horizontal raises ( front and side shoulder raise), Bent over Flys, upright rows (again EZ bar is useful for those) and of course seated and standing shoulder press. I'd really recommend you do push presses using legs and arms to drive the weight overhead, my coach has me doing them all the time.

Personally I say try and buy a small height adjustable weights bench without the side bars for bench pressing. That way you can incline it and put extra strain on bicep curls and pectoral work. If you have adjustable free weights an EZ bar is always a good purchase aswell, its just more comfortable on the wrists than a barbell for curls. You can always buy heavier dumbells if you need to later on.

You don't have to do 3 sessions per week, you can train different groups on different days through split sessions but I don't like doing that as I never feel fresh that way + the 72 hour rule generally applies to really heavy lifting or extreme sessions. If I do deadlifts I leave heavy lower back exercises alone for at least 2-3 days.

[BryanM]

.....

And eating can't be overdone unless something ruptures. If eating is still fun for you, you're not strength training.

Real life isn't Dragon Ball Z, if your muscles aren't heavier they aren't stronger or faster.

[GaijinPunch]

I just started an HST cycle -- I'm halfway through it. It's apparently the best way to build muscle mass. Hurts like a mother fucker though, and you might be hard pressed to do it with only dumbells.

I wouldn't work the same muscle groups 3 times a week, that would put you in over-training range

That's the definition of HST... some people rave about it. So far, I dig it.

[Solarus]

You can definitely create a very solid weight training routine with just dumb-bells, assuming you have the range of adjustable weight required to fit the large range you would be using. For a perfect home gym though, I would still recommend getting a barbell, bench and some plates (as a whole still shouldn't run too much).

I personally spend most of my time training in explosive power since I'm a competitive sprinter, so most of the workout stuff I do consists of a primary compound lift (bench, squat, deadlift, snatches, clean and jerk, etc.), a supplemental lift (a 2nd compound lift that differs slightly from the primary lift to shock the nervous system and target muscles that wouldn't normally be hit as hard with a primary lift. Such as box squats as a supplement for squats or board press, floor press or dumb-bell bench for a standard bench press), and then isolation lifts for the targets of those primary lifts. I do a dynamic effort and maximum effort day for my upper and lower body each week.

As for training a single muscle group 3 times a week, I can only see that being of maximum benefit if you trained said group on monday, thursday and sunday of the week in question, because your muscles require lots of rest time for optimal hypertrophic recovery (and you probably want to be throwing down glutamine like it's a full meal if you want to tempt the fates with something more than that), as anything more than that is difficult for your body to recover in a short period of time. In other words, the muscle tissue you're trying to make come back bigger and stronger won't have that chance before you start tearing it again. That is of course assuming you work your body as hard as you're supposed to

[BryanM]

My goal is to increase the muscle mass and volume of my biceps, triceps & shoulders without having to go to the Gym or use steroids & other extras...

* Buy a used barbell set from a flea market. Broken dreams are cheap.

* Get a rack.

* Take the time to learn to squat without giving yourself tendonitis.

* Deadlift and squat. You might not know this, but your arms are attached to a torso which is attached to a hip which is attached to your flippers. There might be some kind of voodoo kinetic chain or something here that might be important.

* Be willing to let the bicepz curl and row craze go.

* If you're not pooping more than once a day on average something is wrong.

Or just swim laps as hard as you can. You'll get more out of sets of sprints than doing anything with 60 lbs.

Though.

You could attach them to your feet and do chin ups.

Yeah just do that.


MONDAY
4x8 CHIN-UPS *

WEDNESDAY
4x8 CHIN-UPS

FRIDAY
4x8 CHIN-UPS


The weight used should be close to your eight rep max. For example - you can do a set of eight with a given weight. Maybe you could do a ninth rep. There's physically no possibility of a tenth rep.

Attempt to increase the weight by five pounds each session during the first week or two - the increments should slow down to around 2.5 pounds (~1 kg) afterward.

Thinking about it now this isn't much different from doing the overhead press, and meets your stated goals pretty well.

Sorry about trying to sell the whole full body thing on you.

The food and pooping thing still stands though.

* Pushups are an optional substitution for chin-ups on BryanM's Chinup-o-rama program, they are not to be done together on the same day. 50 pushups are about the proper replacement for a set of chinups. A pushup is not a pushup if your chest doesn't touch the floor without cheating. Recommended hand placement is the "straight ahead of where your shoulders are like a zombie" technique. If you can do sets of more than 50 push ups it's really seriously time to get a barbell before you're spending all day and night doing this stuff.

[Khan]

Just a tip but I find finishing my bicep workout with 21's really tears my biceps up

[elfhentaifan]

as for waiting a couple days before training the same muscle group again...
I everyday do, like my daily morning coffee, pushups and situps. when work doesnt get in the way i do 80-100 situps with weights, twice, morning and evening and it does give muscles.
Though, if i would, like recommended, wait 2 days inbetween each day i do that, would they grow even faster?

Same with pushups(and chinups actually). im skinny like hell, my arms are bones and a couple muscles, even so i train everyday, though my muscles sometimes work very well, and sometimes they are so weak that i just can do half of what i usually do.
Can you do pushups like a 'basic training' that you can do everyday without being afraid to overtrain your muscles.

[GaijinPunch]

You can definitely create a very solid weight training routine with just dumb-bells, assuming you have the range of adjustable weight required to fit the large range you would be using. For a perfect home gym though, I would still recommend getting a barbell, bench and some plates (as a whole still shouldn't run too much).

To do HST properly though, you would need a lot. The idea is progression from high rep low weight to low rep heavy weight, so you need a very wide range of weights. Most people aren't going to have this in their home.

like my daily morning coffee, pushups and situps

That's not the same as lifting weights every day. Those are great excercises, but generally don't work your muscles the same. I doubt anyone would tell you doing a few sets of either or both every day is bad.

Broken dreams are cheap.

Sigworthy.

[Taylor]

Biceps, Triceps, Shoulders,

Knees and toes.

[BryanM]

Though, if i would, like recommended, wait 2 days inbetween each day i do that, would they grow even faster?

A day of rest in between would probably help.

You are progressing your pushups by doing more per set each session right? And doing them correctly as prescribed in the Chinup-o-rama thing above?

I've developed a deep pessimism about the sort of education we get on these things. The squat for instance, isn't anything like a leg press. Done like a leg press, it'll try to pull your knee cap toward your hip. And the inexplicable popularity of unweighted sit-ups. A jihad on unweighted situps.

There should be television shows of people doing nothing but deadlifts to counteract the madness.

[Solarus]

Same with pushups(and chinups actually). im skinny like hell, my arms are bones and a couple muscles, even so i train everyday, though my muscles sometimes work very well, and sometimes they are so weak that i just can do half of what i usually do.
Can you do pushups like a 'basic training' that you can do everyday without being afraid to overtrain your muscles.

Any form of resistance training should have a rest period, no matter how low that resistance may be. 72 hours rest is what's pretty much expected for maximal gains in a proper resistance training work out (for strength and hypertrophy of course). Also, if you're looking for a body weight exercise routine,

http://trainforstrength.com/

Would be up your alley. Still doesn't compare to a proper weight routine, but it's pretty close, and takes away any excuse someone could possibly have for not working out (time, money, etc.)

You can definitely create a very solid weight training routine with just dumb-bells, assuming you have the range of adjustable weight required to fit the large range you would be using. For a perfect home gym though, I would still recommend getting a barbell, bench and some plates (as a whole still shouldn't run too much).

To do HST properly though, you would need a lot. The idea is progression from high rep low weight to low rep heavy weight, so you need a very wide range of weights. Most people aren't going to have this in their home.

I meant in reference to a workout routine period, not specifically HST. It's quite easy to make a decent home gym (although I still prefer a proper one) with just some free weights. HST, German Volume Training and other high volume variant training programs are fun, but they're not all that's available (and having done many workouts, it's nice for lactic training, but there's more effective workouts for raw hypertrophy imo). I'm just saying that you can create a very solid program for general strength and hypertrophy with just free weights.

[elfhentaifan]

Though, if i would, like recommended, wait 2 days inbetween each day i do that, would they grow even faster?

A day of rest in between would probably help.

You are progressing your pushups by doing more per set each session right? And doing them correctly as prescribed in the Chinup-o-rama thing above?

I've developed a deep pessimism about the sort of education we get on these things. The squat for instance, isn't anything like a leg press. Done like a leg press, it'll try to pull your knee cap toward your hip. And the inexplicable popularity of unweighted sit-ups. A jihad on unweighted situps.

There should be television shows of people doing nothing but deadlifts to counteract the madness.

sure im doing my set of 50-60 pushups several times a day, which now should finally make me go to gym, or at least get a barbell, to get some weight (unfortunately i cant afford more than the gym rod and dumbbell set i have)
Getting muscles on your chest and abdomen really is FAR easier than making your arms grow (since arms usually just have a small amount of muscles), and curling all day doesnt make shit.
Of course i try training all muscles by doing situps, squads, chinups, pushups too.
Last but propably the most important i have to build up on the amount i can eat, since at times i didnt even have an abdomen, and im glad i am very healthy after everything now.

[GaijinPunch]

it's nice for lactic training,

I did this for a while after my son was born by my wife isn't too big on me sucking on her tits all the time at this point.

but there's more effective workouts for raw hypertrophy imo)..

This is my first HST cycle, actually. I like it so far, but only the last two days of each microcycle really hurt like a mofo.

[Solarus]

it's nice for lactic training,

I did this for a while after my won was born by my wife isn't too big on me sucking on her tits all the time at this point.

LOL, you just made my day I'm of course referring to lactic acid, but I'm pretty sure you already know that.

but there's more effective workouts for raw hypertrophy imo)..

This is my first HST cycle, actually. I like it so far, but only the last two days of each microcycle really hurt like a mofo.

Oh it's a good workout routine, no doubt, I've been through high volume workouts before for 8 week cycles, such as the above mentioned German Volume Training (HELL by the way), since I'm a 400 meter runner and the stuff is great for explosive power, speed endurance and lactic acid retention.

[GaijinPunch]

I'm of course referring to lactic acid, but I'm pretty sure you already know that.

Yeah, but whoever came up w/ the word obviously has some Freudian issues that need attention.

[Taylor]

It's an obvious freudian slit.

[DEL]

GaijinPunch wrote;

I just started an HST cycle -- I'm halfway through it. It's apparently the best way to build muscle mass. Hurts like a mother fucker though, and you might be hard pressed to do it with only dumbells.

I've been out of the gyms for a while, so I had to look HST up. It seems similar to the way I've always been training. Just more strict and regimented, which has to be good.
One question with HST though:- As it involves increasing weight more and more, what happens when you reach a weight so heavy that you have to cheat?
If I bicep curl 60kg or more I have to cheat.
If I bench 100kg or more I need a spotter.
Is cheating allowed under an HST cycle?

[BryanM]

Cheating is never allowed. Tie heavy bits of string or something around the thing to progress on teh bicepz curlz. 5 and 10 pound increments are too fucking much even for a freaking arm press.

[GaijinPunch]

Is cheating allowed under an HST cycle?

Technically you're supposed to be able to do any day within a microcycle, except for the last, since you're doing 2 sets of 100% of your practical max (assuming you took it). Before that, it's lower than your max, so you should be able to do them. If not, you're probably doing something wrong, or didn't get your max right. I did day 6 of my 10's yesterday, and, as expected, I'm sore as a mofo today. Some things I was not able to do two sets of, so you simply go until failure.

The thing where there's room to add your own flavor is how many sets you do. I'm just doing 2 of evertyhing (15s, 10s, and 5s) but some people do 1 set of 15s, 2 of 10s, and 3-4 of the 5s. To me that's too much time wasted on the 15s. The only thing that's going to feel weird is that my 5 maxes are not much mroe than my 10s, so I'll be dropping a lot of weight on day one of the 5s, and doing half the reps. I might add a 3rd set for days 1-3 and see how it goes.

[DEL]

Before that, it's lower than your max, so you should be able to do them. If not, you're probably doing something wrong, or didn't get your max right.

Ok thanks .

[ST Dragon]

Thank you all so much for all the info!
I think these will do just fine for the moment...

A few more queries:

Also, when I do chin-ups, is it best for the biceps work-out, to have the palms close to each other (facing my face), wider apart on the same vertical axis as my shoulders, or even wider, when I'm pulling up?

When they say that I have to work & train on my "core" (which is the part of my body that stabilizes the rest of my body), do they mean the muscles around my spinal column or the chest?

Two bodybuilders that own the shop I buy my weights from, suggested that in order to gain muscle mass/volume much faster, I should also consume daily for 1.5 months, 160gr (80gr before lunch & 80gr after my evening workout before going to bed) of the following protein supplement and combined with 3gr of creatine powder (daily) before my workout, to increase strength and to be able to workout more time.

All Stars Whey-Plex WPC-80
http://www.bodybuildingwarehouse.co.uk/ ... 2548-p.asp

All-Stars Creatin Pur
http://www.sport-tiedje.com/allstars/na ... tinpur.htm

So are these products any good?

I’ve never used any protein supplements or creatine before. Are there any health risks involved? Generally I don’t have any health problems, but should I ask physician before I start using them?

Also, there seems to be a confusion of whether more kilos / less reps is ideal for increasing muscle mass/volume and less kilos / more reps is ideal for definition / toning your muscles or the exact opposite:

High Reps for "Muscle Tone" BAD Advice!

http://fitnessblackbook.com/muscle_tone ... ad-advice/

I’ve asked 10 different people who have been doing weights for years (all very well built-up) and surprisingly, they had 2 different opinions on the matter. Half said that more kilos / less reps is ideal to increase muscle mass / volume & the other half said that less kilos / more reps is the best way to increase muscle mass / volume.

So what is the case then?

Thanks in advance

[BryanM]

Also, when I do chin-ups, is it best for the biceps work-out, to have the palms close to each other (facing my face), wider apart on the same vertical axis as my shoulders, or even wider, when I'm pulling up?

Obsessing over bicepz is bad. If you must must must "train" them, just do a million curls or something. It's a tiny muscle, and the obsession many have to make them larger than the tricep group is twisted. People shouldn't be chia pets.

Normal hand spacing is about shoulder width. A wide increases the distance needed to travel and leverage against the shoulder, a narrow grip will be inefficient and just lead to less intensity in a set.

Each rep also begins with straight arms btw

When they say that I have to work & train on my "core" (which is the part of my body that stabilizes the rest of my body), do they mean the muscles around my spinal column or the chest?

"Core" is just a retarded way to say "torso" or "trunk". For some reason we need shiny new words for old things to make them more marketable.

The abdomen and lower back are Very Useful Things. The deadlift is the primary movement for these. Almost every other movement is like using thumb tacks to screw in a door frame, quality-wise.

So are these products any good?

A couple points:

* It's kind of in these guy's interests for you to give them money forever.

* There are no shortcuts. Some day medical science will invent a magical potion, but that day isn't today.

You'd be better served eating a few hamburgers generally. Supplements are supplements, not a replacement for food. Develop a solid foundation, gain some weight, and then think about where you have room for them when and if you want to use them.

Protein shakes are food in liquid form. From reputable dealers, they're harmless.

Creatine is mostly harmless. In edge cases such as an unhealthy kidney, it's probably not the greatest thing to use.

Also, there seems to be a confusion of whether more kilos / less reps is ideal for increasing muscle mass/volume and less kilos / more reps is ideal for definition / toning your muscles or the exact opposite:

There is no such thing as tuning a muscle - a muscle isn't a piano (it's a little mouse that runs around under your skin). There is only stronger and weaker.

In general. 1 rep sets train toward strength. 20 rep sets train toward endurance. 3 rep sets behave more like a single, while a 10 rep set behaves more like the 20 range. 5 is a balanced choice between strength and endurance, and is the foundation of every strength training program worth a poop.

A lowish rep range is also obviously preferable for recovery. Adding 2.5 pounds to a press is easier with sets of 5, compared to 10 or 20. Long sets aren't "heavy", but they are long and hard.

"The pump" or "getting swole" is a wacky kind of hypertrophy that mainly consists of building up fluids and nutrients in muscles - this is what doing hundreds reps of almost nothing is for. How "impressive" it looks is entirely dependent on how much real strength is there to begin with - a 160 pound kid needs squats, deadlifts and a shit ton of sandwiches, not da pump.