XRGB-3

Fudoh · Post by **Fudoh** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 7:54 pm

DC will be the same, but many displays treat 480p component differently than VGA, so transcoding a 480p PS2 to VGA using the XRGB-3 can make sense depending on your display.

Konsolkongen · Post by **Konsolkongen** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 9:14 pm

Here PS2 in 480p through the XRGB-3 looks god awful. The picture is sharp enough but the colors are flickering like hell and the picture is a million times better when directly fed to my tv.

Judging from the info on Fudoh's site and his pictures of OutRun 2 in 480p i'd say that my XRGB-3 is broken when it comes to 480p

Konsolkongen · Post by **Konsolkongen** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 9:31 pm

Does the scroling objects have anything to do with your problem Fudoh? I just tested mine with the game that was in.

The stage select menu in Rockman X4 starts by scroling down and still my Saturn provides a rocksolid image.

One of my model 1 Saturns did have a very shaky image but i think it was much worse than what yours does. Unfortunately it doesn't work anymore or i could have taken some pictures :/ If you have another Saturn then give that one a try.

Artemio · Post by **Artemio** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 9:34 pm

I just tested Radiant Silvergun, and can't notice any such problem Fudoh. It might be I am using a Japanese unit, since my cable although not the official one uses c-sync as well.

Here's the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9m7p3gp0J0 (you can watch it in HQ/"HD")

Konsolkongen · Post by **Konsolkongen** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 9:38 pm

My Saturn is EU but fully modified. I don't think the regions has anything to do with it :S

Well its EU on the inside but white Japanese on the outside :p

EDIT: Artemio, shame you didn't capture that Skeleton Saturn on film

Fudoh · Post by **Fudoh** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 10:05 pm

Judging from the info on Fudoh's site and his pictures of OutRun 2 in 480p i'd say that my XRGB-3 is broken when it comes to 480p

It's hard to find a proper A/D setting for 480p input on the B1, I know. But with LPF turned off and the exact right A/D setting, there's no degrading apart from a little flicker on a few colors (mostly solid grey).

Thanks for the additional testing guys. I guess I'll check my other Saturn units (all Hitachi models though)

@Artemio: when you say C-Sync, do you actually mean the sync signal or do you mean composite video ?

Konsolkongen · Post by **Konsolkongen** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 10:07 pm

Your settings did help me alot with 240p from the PS2. I will test if i can find a better A/D setting for 480p. Thanks.

Artemio · Post by **Artemio** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 11:16 pm

I mean pin 8 on the saturn, that is composite video as sync... sorry about the confusion.

BTW, hadn't tested 480p though components on my XRGB-3 vs my TV, I really like it more in B1 mode! Didn't expect it to be better, but it certainly is using my Wii and Gamecube.

darklegion · Post by **darklegion** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 4:00 am

Fudoh wrote:OK, since a *very long* time (4 years or so) I've recently unburried my Saturn to play a few classic through the XRGB-3. What's the common sense on Saturn through the XRGB ? Any problems at other people's setups ?

I'm using the front RGB input and I'm not entirely happy with the picture. Currently I'm using the 75ohm RGB setting since I only had the sync dropout a single time (title screen of Kyukyoku Tiger 2+) and I don't want to mess with the settings right now. I'm using official japanese Sega RGB cables which use Composite video instead of real Sync. While the LPF is off I can see artifacts in the background which are obviously caused by the composite video signal. But since I've LPF turned on anyway, they're wiped away and I didn't bother. What's bothering me though is that I've got a *slight* warping on top of the picture. Nowhere as serious as with a PCE or NG, but it's not really fixable using the AFC setting. In horizontally scrolling games it's not even noticeable, but on vertical scrolling shoot'em ups you can see it when the objects are passing the "warped inch".

So, before I get myself alternative RGB cables or start using a sync stripper, I just wanted to ask which kind of cables other Saturn users are using and if they have any problems (besides Konsolkongen loose of sync which was fixable by adjusting the input impendence of the RGB port) ??

EDIT/PS: Switched to the back RGB port a moment ago. Exactly the same picture with the same flaw. The back port is fixed to 220ohm input termination by the way, so the picture's darker with the same settings than on the front RGB port.

Yeah, I have the same issue Fudoh, only I am using an XRGB-2 rather than an XRGB-3.I just thought it was my monitor at first, but then I tried Radiant Silvergun, and the effect was much more pronounced.I'm using a PAL Saturn Model 2, with 60hz mod, internally converted JAP-RGB > EUR-Scart and a stock european scart cable.The cable is crap and is causing diagonal scrolling lines, so I'm going to need to open it up and rewire it anyway with shielded cable, and seperate grounds.Maybe that will also fix this issue, but I doubt it.I seem to remember that sync issues with the saturn and XRGB are common, so that's probably what we are running into.Also sometimes the screen goes black on bootup and I have to switch between S/Video or Composite and the RGB input to get the picture back up.

I also tried resetting the XRGB-2 to factory defaults, and forcing the XRGB-2's vsync option to 60HZ, but neither helped.The problem is also present when forcing 50hz mode, through the saturn.

Artemio · Post by **Artemio** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 4:29 am

Konsolkongen wrote:Artemio, shame you didn't capture that Skeleton Saturn on film

As a matter of fact, I edited it out of the video =P

I'll test my girlfriend's US saturn whenever I can to check if that one presents the same issue with the XRGB.

Artemio · Post by **Artemio** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 5:38 am

Sorry about double posting...

Here's teh video using the US Saturn: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czeNv7Z7DL4

And here is the same amount of close up using the Japanese one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XihSpa9Rwac

As you can see, the Japanese is Rock Solid and teh US one is a bit unstable. The LM1881 just makes it worse. I am using the exact same cables for both, and teh same game of course.

@Konsolkongen The Japanese clip has teh Skeleton running at the end for a bit

Konsolkongen · Post by **Konsolkongen** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 6:35 am

The waviness you get from your US Saturn looks like the problem i had with my model 1 PAL Saturn. But if i remember correctly it was only on the top half of the screen and maybe a bit worse. It looks like there is a difference in picture quality varying from Saturn to Saturn... :/

I've been thinking about buying a "Cool"-Saturn like yours to better match my Biohazard Dreamcast. I like the "Cool"-Saturn better than the Derby one, simply because of the "This is cool" logo on top

Looks nice with the LED on.

Artemio · Post by **Artemio** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 7:07 am

The waviness if full screen unfortunately. It is slight but I can't help but notice it on that Saturn all the time. If I turn on my LM1881 circuit with it, it becomes really bad so it is not a matter of cleaning the sync as with the Genesis; or at least not for my Sat.

darklegion · Post by **darklegion** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 7:31 am

I just tried with an S-Video cable I had laying around, and the waviness still persists.

EDIT: And I only get the problem at the top of the screen like Fudoh, it doesn't affect the whole screen for me.

Fudoh · Post by **Fudoh** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 9:42 am

Thanks again! I'll grab another Saturn unit tonight and report back once I tried it.

Does anybody use a Saturn cable which actually uses the Sync pin ??

Chacranajxy · Post by **Chacranajxy** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 3:13 pm

Artemio wrote:Sorry about double posting...

Here's teh video using the US Saturn: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czeNv7Z7DL4

And here is the same amount of close up using the Japanese one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XihSpa9Rwac

As you can see, the Japanese is Rock Solid and teh US one is a bit unstable. The LM1881 just makes it worse. I am using the exact same cables for both, and teh same game of course.

@Konsolkongen The Japanese clip has teh Skeleton running at the end for a bit

That's a relief for me. I have a skeleton Saturn myself.

em0ti0n · Post by **em0ti0n** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 7:14 pm

Regarding to 'waviness' or some picture issues mentioned above with Saturn and XRGB, I didn't find anything strange with my setup:

JPN White SEGA Saturn Version 2 (HST-3220)
XRGB-3
JPN pinout RGB scart cable - http://www.ncsxshop.com/cgi-bin/shop/AS ... d=JpBynCAI

Tested game was Radiant Silvergun (I have only this game at the moment, lol), picture checked carefully and found no problem at all - rock solid (with nice scanlines)!

Artemio · Post by **Artemio** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 7:17 pm

So far Japanese units have had no trouble with a rock solid RGB video signal... We need to gather more evidence in thsi regard.

Konsolkongen · Post by **Konsolkongen** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 11:00 pm

I'm getting a PAL Super Nintendo shortly. I will of course modify it to play imports and 60Hz when i get it. Is there anything i should be aware of when using it with the XRGB-3?

I'm gonna use an EU GameCube RGBs cable. I have read somewhere that i must remove the capacitors in the cable for it to work, is this needed when using it with the XRGB-3? Will it worsen the picture? Should i start preparing a LM1881 circuit for it, like i had to install in the MegaDrive cable? And is a specific AFC setting needed?

Never had a Super Nintendo before so any additional info for newbies would be nice too. Its bought primarily for the Rockman games.

EDIT: Is there a list of PAL games that can be forced in 60Hz mode like there is for the Sega Saturn?

Fudoh · Post by **Fudoh** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 3:01 pm

On another XRGB-3 unit I recently had the SNES picture was quite shaky. Markus told me that is was way better on the back RGB port. On my own XRGB I have no problems running SFC through the front port. Very nice picture, no need for any AFC setting. V-Sync does affect the SFC picture though (I think I need to turn if off). There's absolutely no need for a LM1881. If you get a completely dark picture with nothing but ghosting in the background you need to modify the RGB cable, but try it first....

Have there been any speed-up PAL games ? I think they all run 17% slow in 50Hz, so you bring them back to original speed by playing in 60Hz. Should work in nearly all games. An exception might be those with a custom chip inside...

In general you'll find the SNES RGB to be softer than the MD/SAT RGB picture. A SFC along with an original japanese Nintendo RGB cable will bring you closest to perfect RGB.

Chacranajxy · Post by **Chacranajxy** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 6:21 pm

Got my XRGB 3, but I haven't had a whole lot of time to dick around with the settings. Just wondering, how do I set it to output 480p when I'm in B1 mode? Not sure if it's automatically doing that or if I gotta change something first. Hafta wait till tomorrow to use the thing on my real monitor

Fudoh · Post by **Fudoh** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 6:23 pm

In B1 the DVI output get's deactivated and the VGA is set to 480p automatically, *BUT* make sure to set the resolution in the menu to XGA. In SXGA settings the VGA timings get slightly changed and it's possible that you don't get a picture at all. You can do this blindly using the front buttons. No need to go into the menu.

Konsolkongen · Post by **Konsolkongen** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 1:08 am

Fudoh wrote: In general you'll find the SNES RGB to be softer than the MD/SAT RGB picture. A SFC along with an original japanese Nintendo RGB cable will bring you closest to perfect RGB.

Thank you for the info Fudoh! If the picture is too soft with the SNES i might get a SFC later... Do you know if a SFC can be modified to 50Hz, for those PAL games that needs to be started in 50Hz before switching to 60Hz.

Chacranajxy · Post by **Chacranajxy** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 5:36 pm

hmmm... okay I have my PS2 hooked up and the picture looks great on B0 mode, but on B1 mode, I get these thick black lines that run through the picture vertically... what's going on...?

Artemio · Post by **Artemio** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 5:42 pm

It is because you have VL_V enabled (less than 255), if that is not the case then just reset teh unit with the MENU+OK+ POWER and it will be alright, it is documented a few pages ago.

Fudoh · Post by **Fudoh** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 5:53 pm

And note that FW versions 2.08 to 2.11 were buggy in the aspect, those black lines couldn't be turned off on those firmwares.

Konsolkongen · Post by **Konsolkongen** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 9:53 pm

Got my SNES today. Confirmed that it worked and then i went straight to 60Hz and region modding. It was annoying as hell to mod with 3 legs to lift from the motherboard, but it went fine and was done pretty fast

Works perfect but Super Mario All-Stars does not like to be played in 60Hz :/

Picture is great, i did have to remove the capasitors in the GameCube cable but the result is very nice. BUT! There is a huge problem with the audio through XRGB3 it disappears and reappears all the time making it very annoying to play. When connected to my tv the sound is as it should be and it only happens with the XRGB-3. The Saturn and MegaDrive works just fine and it never happens on these machines. I also tried using the RGBs to VGA connector in the back but it was the same thing and the picture was flickering more than using the front input.

I can't seem to find any setting in the XRGB-3 menu that fixes this problem so i'm gonna make an audio cable from the RGBs cable directly to my AV reciever so that should work :/ Also i should stick to JAP cartridges from now on as it appears not all PAL games like being forced in 60Hz mode :/

Still i'm pretty happy with the console and even though the modding proved a challenge it worked out great

Artemio · Post by **Artemio** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 9:59 pm

Just as information for you to check, I can say that I have used a Super Famicom and an US SNES and audio on both works fine via the RGB cable (a japanese one), when using the XRGB-3 through the jack in the back.

I use my Saturn in the same manner as well.

Fudoh · Post by **Fudoh** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 10:00 pm

Nothing I can think off regarding the sound problem, sorry. My SFC works fine.

Konsolkongen · Post by **Konsolkongen** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 10:19 pm

Artemio>

I do the same thing and as i mentioned Saturn and MegaDrive works fine. Only the Super Nintendo is acting strange... ?

Fudoh>

If i don't figure it out i will make an audio cable and connect it directly to my receiver. Lame but wth...

EDIT: Its obvious that its the picture that causes the problem and not the sound itself. Because sound is just sound

I will try to add 75ohm resistors to the R,G and B signals tomorrow altough i doubt that will make any difference, but i need to go to the store for Phono sockets anyway

shmups.system11.org

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