Thunder Force III and IV

[gs68]

I've been itching for a long time to play these shmups, and after many failed attempts at finding copies at flea markets, I decided to cave in and play them via emulator.

I thought I was in for something pretty awesome. Instead? I find myself thinking:

I CAN'T TAKE IT ANYMORE.

TF3 and 4 simply have way too many opportunities to die without knowing what hit you, as well as opportunies for Yet Another Stupid Death. Even on their "first" stages, I find myself dying and going "What? What the FUCK just hit me?" The loss of your current weapon upon death just makes things worse.

This sort of crap doesn't happen so often in other shooters--in Raiden, if you die, you allowed yourself to get cornered or weren't constantly moving to avoid the fast non-danmaku bullets. In bullet hell shooters, if you die, you know what hit you.

Maybe I'm simply not used to Thunder Force's brand of difficulty? Maybe I just need to do some more R-Type-style memorization? Or maybe I simply fail shmups forever, as always? Either way, TF3 and 4 REALLY disappointed me.

[jochen]

Surely it is a question of personal taste. If you don´t like the Thunderforce-games
nobody can help you to change that.

My only advice to you: Thunderforce 3 is considered as a easy shmup. Try easy mode,
collect as many lives as possible, play the levels in the same order ( my tip : 4, 5, 1, 2, 3 -
there is a good chance that you reach Level 6 and still own a shield ). But - don´t waste
your time then you hate the game and find no joy in it.

I for myself suck at the raiden-series. And R-Type I and II are frustrating hard
for me .

Some other hori-shmups on the Mega-Drive/ Genesis ( Emu ):

Aero-Blaster : more straight forward, less memorization, not too hard in my opinion.

Elimate Down: maybe the closest game compared with R-Type you can find on the Mega-Drive.

Gaiares: great graphics, but very hard and maybe frustrating. Maybe you have a better
opinion of the Thunderforce-series after trying this one.

Gynoug/ Wings of War: more reaction, less memorzation - great game with
weird enemy-design - similar to Choaniki - but less humor.


Otherwise : good luck in finding the games that suit your personal preferences.



Jochen.

[Rob]

Both give out extra lives and shields frequently (especially 3). Once you memorize a few obstacles (stuff on Gorgon) and hold on to Sever (main shot power-up) it will become too easy.

[Kollision]

Both MD Thunder Force games are easy. TF 3 is one of the easiest MD shooters.
Maybe you should play them a little more.

[Sonic R]

When I first rented Thunder Force III, it was very difficult for me, I deemed it impossible. Then I saw it on sale at Meijers (back in 1991) for $24.99 and I bought it.

I then spend more time with it and it would come together with practice, time and perseverance. Then I was able to conquer it. In that time that I put in playing it surviving a little longer, reaching another stage, I found my self in love with the game…

But at first, I felt that the game was unfair and too difficult. The only thing is to keep at it and watch the progress unfold…

Today, almost 20 years later, Thunder Force III is my favorite in the whole franchise (Thunder Force II is my second favorite)

Also for TFII, Rob has a nice write up in the strategy section. Thanks Rob!

[BulletMagnet]

Yeah, they're memorizers, but so was almost everything back then. They're not personal favorites of mine either, but they're nowhere near as brutal as some of their kin out there, so if you want to 1CC them and be done with it that shouldn't take you long.

[Rob]

Also for TFII, Rob has a nice write up in the strategy section. Thanks Rob!

Thank you. Looks like the last two images were down so I'm re-uploading them. $25 is a sweet deal for back in '91. I think I always had to pay near full price. TF3 did feel impossible back then.

[Herr Schatten]

TFIII is very easy. Stick to it, you'll have the 1cc in no time.
TFIV does have some badly visible bullets and it has some other annoying traits, but it's not really brutal either. It does have a steeper learning curve than the other Thunderforces, though.

[Ganelon]

Yes, it's faster paced and enemies come up behind you. If you really don't know what killed you, then you're not paying enough attention (as Schatten says, sometimes the colorful backgrounds do obscure stuff a little). I'm not sure if you were expecting to 1CC in a couple of tries (since not enough practice is the reason for 100% of these topics)... it'll probably take you 1-2 weeks to clear it if you spend a couple hours every day getting familiar with the stages.

[toaplan_shmupfan]

I'd recommend watching the attract mode several times for both games because they tend to show enough of the starting parts of the stages to at least learn where some of the more difficult enemies or traps are located. It's really important to learn the stages well, because daring to challenge Hard or Mania... getting hit loses ALL weapons except for the two basic forward shot and back shot weapons.

For ThunderForce III, I have found the Gorgon and Haides stages to be the most difficult as far as their traps are concerned. So, I usually start with Gorgon to get it over with first. To me, it seems easiest if I stay as low to the ground during the Gorgon stage, without actually hitting the rock formations on the ground.

For ThunderForce IV, my usual stage selection is Daser, Ruin, Air Raid, Strite. I get those two over with first (especially since the Daser boss gets more aggressive if the stage is played later) and for some reason Air Raid and Strite really don't get that much more difficult even though they are played as later stages vs. earlier stages.

ThunderForce III seems to be much more of a memorizer than ThunderForce IV, but then again ThunderForce IV's "Wall" stage 8 is a very difficult challenge and I usually lose at least two ships during the midboss attacks and at least two to three additional ships fighting the very difficult stage boss (even on when the game is set to Easy).

I have one other comment about Gaiares that has been mentioned--it's initially easier than the ThunderForce games due to a more controlled scrolling speed and no behind the ship attacks in the early stages, but then it becomes progressively harder due to the checkpoints and having to re-TOZ enemies to get back a certain weapon. In particular, losing a ship at the Stage 3 midboss can be a challenge to get back up to max Vulcan firepower (even before trying to obtain another weapon), and for sure, if I have lost a ship at the Stage 5 midboss just before the boss, it's usually Game Over for me because that midboss has to be defeated yet again just to reach the boss.

(All this is based on that I've finished ThunderForce III on Normal, but not on Hard, and that I've finished ThunderForce IV/Lightening Force on Easy, while getting all the way to Stage 10 on Normal. Those who have finished on harder difficulties may be able to offer additional or better hints.)

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Suppose if Technosoft did release an arcade PCB interation of Thunderforce IV for the arcades as the gameplay seems to have that arcadey type of feel on the Mega Drive/Genesis hardware. With their previous work & experience gleaned from Thunderforce AC PCB, Technosoft did a great job with it's fourth installment. In the USA, Thunderforce IV was released under the title of Lightening Force (with mispelling error printed on the sticker label and front cover box art as well). I was able to find a used Sega Genesis Arcade Power Stick with three button layout for a mere $20 at a second-hand video game shop. This was the final piece of the puzzle needed to play LF the way it should be properly played with an arcade stick setup. ^_~

Back in 2000, my local Kaybee Toys store was selling used Sega Genesis games for cheap, I saw that they had a barebones LF cart and bought it along with a brand new Majesco 3rd-party produced Sega Genesis 3 to try it out with. Was an awesome purchase and one hell of a find (or rather "golden opportunity" to play it properly) and proceeded to acquire/search for the earlier Thunderforce III cart. Managed to get the Japanese Mega Drive version of TF-3 and it plays just fine without any problems on the USA region Genesis 3 console. ^_~

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[toaplan_shmupfan]

One more comment about ThunderForce IV/Lightening Force... When I play on Easy or Normal, I use an 85% ship speed for the entire game. I've never found a good use for the 25% and 50% speeds that are IMHO way too slow, but then I also find 75% to be not fast enough while 100% speed is too fast.

[gameoverDude]

An arcade version of TFIV on Sega's System 32 would've really been amazing, especially with even better graphics and sound. Cut down on the number of score-based extends, fix the infinite score problems (Strite stage, final boss), put time limits on boss battles- and there you go. Maybe even throw in a 2 player mode with a special Dual Thunder Sword attack, a bad ending if you take too long on the final boss (ala TF5), and an additional Ultra Maniac difficulty that players could choose by entering a code. Shame TF5 didn't get an arcade release first and appear as a 2D game. The 3D designs of TF5 don't look as good as TF4's sprites, honestly.

I still have a TF4 cart, but I also play it on Fusion - the HRAP 3 is awesome with TF4.

Suppose if Technosoft did release an arcade PCB interation of Thunderforce IV for the arcades as the gameplay seems to have that arcadey type of feel on the Mega Drive/Genesis hardware. With their previous work & experience gleaned from Thunderforce AC PCB, Technosoft did a great job with it's fourth installment. In the USA, Thunderforce IV was released under the title of Lightening Force (with mispelling error printed on the sticker label and front cover box art as well). I was able to find a used Sega Genesis Arcade Power Stick with three button layout for a mere $20 at a second-hand video game shop. This was the final piece of the puzzle needed to play LF the way it should be properly played with an arcade stick setup. ^_~

Back in 2000, my local Kaybee Toys store was selling used Sega Genesis games for cheap, I saw that they had a barebones LF cart and bought it along with a brand new Majesco 3rd-party produced Sega Genesis 3 to try it out with. Was an awesome purchase and one hell of a find (or rather "golden opportunity" to play it properly) and proceeded to acquire/search for the earlier Thunderforce III cart. Managed to get the Japanese Mega Drive version of TF-3 and it plays just fine without any problems on the USA region Genesis 3 console. ^_~

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[FRO]

TFIII is very easy. Stick to it, you'll have the 1cc in no time.
TFIV does have some badly visible bullets and it has some other annoying traits, but it's not really brutal either. It does have a steeper learning curve than the other Thunderforces, though.

Perhaps it's because it's the only one I owned as a youth, but I never got that. I mean, II had the switch back & forth between overhead & side-scrolling, which in itself is a challenge, especially since the overhead stages are so frustrating due to the sheer speed at which you move through them, making it all the more likely you'll inadvertently run into some alien craft. I've still not been able to crack the 3rd overhead stage after all these years

III, to me, is a bit more twitch as well. Yeah, it's a memorizer like all the others, but there are a few spots where certain ships (like in IV) change their location on the screen relative to your location, and if you don't see them immediately when they enter the screen, you're all too likely to run into them. At least that's been my experience. I felt like they fixed that issue in IV because the ships w/ the same habit move slower & are less likely to run into you. I also think IV, despite it's relatively difficult stage 1-4 setup has a better overall difficulty curve until the end. III seemed a bit more obvious in the order of stages people would choose from, which is perhaps why many prefer it. For me, if you start in Ruins on IV and get the Hunter weapon, as long as you can keep a hold of it, you're in. Once you do that, and go to Strite to get the Blade weapon, you're good to go. Of course, the Rail Gun is also highly important at this point, but you can live w/o it at first.

[szycag]

It's weird because I didn't like Thunder Force III when I played it in emulator at all, but once I played it on the real hardware it all started coming together and now it's one of my favorite games. I just don't think those two games in particular emulate very well. I can't put my finger on it, if I just like the Genesis D-Pad better for it or if it's not getting the timing right. Or it's just all in my head, I don't know. But even now that I'm accustomed to the game and have memorized most of the hazards, it just feels so much better to play it on real hardware.

[evil_ash_xero]

Embarrassingly, TF III is the only game I can 1CC. So, it has to be easy. Just stick with it.

IV is definitely tougher.

[Limbrooke]

For Thunder Force 3, it really boils down to memory and to some degree quick reaction early on. Once you've gone a few times through the first couple stages while finding comfort in a start order and it's sure to be a breeze.

I used to say TF3 is full of garbage deaths, and I'd still say it's true, but if the game is memorized enough garbage turns to stupid, as a result of human error. Pretty easy game with a little time and effort.

Thunder Force 4 is more challenging and a longer game to be sure. The enemies actually put up a fight and a decent degree of defense, a noticeable difference over TF3. The overall length is increased significantly too from 7 (8 isn't so much a stage as a short boss set) to 10 adding to the level of memorization. Pardon music and graphics, it still eventually boils down to memory. There is more to understanding how to approach certain sections with what weapon and when to fire not to mention 'some' dodging. I've yet to clear TF4 but it's been over a year since I last attempted progress and it stands as the only TF game I've tried pardon TF2 MD that I've not cleared. I stand at Wall currently and perhaps in a couple weeks I too can log my name of the scoreboard.

The bottom line is just practice the games a little and if these games agree with you the frustration should melt away. We're not talking Cave or Border Down here, just a little effort that's all.

The loss of your current weapon upon death just makes things worse.

Be thankful this isn't In The Hunt, dying in that game can prove disasterous and quite frustrating.

[Runefaust]

I do not like Thunderforce 3 and 4 as well. It is way too uncomfortable to switch the weapons with one button. In Thunderforce 5, you can fire any weapon just by holding down the corresponding button, and there ya go

[StoofooEsq]

TF3 is easy enough where it's a good introduction to the series. Basic stage memorization should only take two playthroughs at most (I think stages like Gorgon have extra tricks on higher difficulties, though), and the player doesn't have to put much effort against bosses after getting (and keeping) Sever.

TF4 also involves a fair amount of memorization, but the game strikes a good balance between memorization and player execution. The latter will make more of a difference here than in TF3, particularly in stages 7, 8, and 9.

[Strider77]

doesn't have to put much effort against bosses after getting (and keeping) Sever.

glad to see someone else realizes that TF5 with it's free range wasn't the only TF game with one weapon that was way stronger than the others.

[gs68]

You know, for every comment I see here bragging about how TF3 is impossibly easy, my urge to randomly beat the ever-loving shit out of a random innocent bystander increases. That, and I just feel more and more retarded and worthless for having trouble with Gorgon and Haides.

or any stage at all.

[toaplan_shmupfan]

I consistently lose two ships on Gorgon and another two ships on Haides but what makes the TF III game considered "easy" is that the last two bosses are just too easy to defeat. My basis for this claim is for Normal level, of course, and Hard and Mania should be that much more difficult.

Stage boss before the Orn Core (final level) boss--those four moving blocks are straightforward enough but still challenging to dodge while fighting the boss, but... why even try to dodge them? Just get in close with the twin shot (don't even need the Saber/Sever weapon), oops, a block hit the ship, so what, just get close in again with the twin shot yet again... maybe it will cost two of three ships but that boss goes down way too easy.

The Orn Core midboss is just simple dodging, and then the same goes for final boss in the Orn Core--it might cost two or three ships but it too can be easily taken out just by point blanking it with twin shot and getting close in again if a ship is lost.

The way TF III gives out extra ships based on points plus the not-so-hidden extra ships, it's straightforward enough (once everything is memorized sufficiently) to enter the last two stages with 8 or 9 ships (and maybe more if less ships are lost in the early stage) in reserve.

[gameoverDude]

TF3 is easy enough where it's a good introduction to the series. Basic stage memorization should only take two playthroughs at most (I think stages like Gorgon have extra tricks on higher difficulties, though), and the player doesn't have to put much effort against bosses after getting (and keeping) Sever.

TF4 also involves a fair amount of memorization, but the game strikes a good balance between memorization and player execution. The latter will make more of a difference here than in TF3, particularly in stages 7, 8, and 9.

TF4's Stage 8 boss is one of the hardest in the game- probably more so than the Stage 9 one. Those exploding bugs are a real hazard when they crash-land. I've gotten KTFO by his last gasp attack once as well.

When starting on TF4, I choose Ruins first. It's not just for the Hunter but also for that hidden shield that turns up a bit later. The Air Raid stage can be raped quite well with Hunter, and I usually do that one 2nd.

Blade sucks on the Gargoyle Diver compared to Twin Shot (you get the blue hit sparks, indicating a dud shot), but Hunter+Claw will take him down in a reasonable time. Only GD's tail can block your Hunters.

[FRO]

^^ Interesting approach. I always felt like Hunter took WAY too long to take Gargoyle Driver down, and that Hunter's accuracy wasn't good enough w/ the tail always moving. Blade works great if you get in the right position (not too hard), to where you can see the orange/red sparks telling you you're on target. I think it's a matter of just making sure your aim is true and that you're back far enough to avoid the tail when he comes after you.

[toaplan_shmupfan]

I don't know, I've seen times where Blade gets the Gargoyle Diver weak spot perfectly and other times where it just doesn't seem to hit the right spot. For me, that's too inconsistent from game to game. So, I'll either use Hunter with claw because it also causes some slowdown that helps with the moving tail, or else if I want the challenge of no slowdown then I'll end up using Snake.

[StoofooEsq]

When starting on TF4, I choose Ruins first. It's not just for the Hunter but also for that hidden shield that turns up a bit later.

This is actually the first I've ever known about a Shield in Ruins. I usually never bother to stray from the middle of the screen for the entire stage, which might explain why I never saw it before (I'm assuming it's stashed at the top/bottom of the screen somewhere).

Blade sucks on the Gargoyle Diver compared to Twin Shot (you get the blue hit sparks, indicating a dud shot), but Hunter+Claw will take him down in a reasonable time. Only GD's tail can block your Hunters.

A silly habit that I got into when I noticed that Blade was taking too long to kill Gargoyle Diver was using the front fire on the Back Shot instead to accurately hit his weak spot. Reason I never tried any other weapons on it at the time was because I never played any other stage first besides Strite. Simple times.

[Specineff]

I do not like Thunderforce 3 and 4 as well. It is way too uncomfortable to switch the weapons with one button. In Thunderforce 5, you can fire any weapon just by holding down the corresponding button, and there ya go

You kids and your multi-button controllers! Back in my day, we had only one button to pause the game on the console! And we had to share the button!

[Makoto Sei]

Looking for easy Thunder Force ? Play Thunder Force V. Playing Thunder Force IV on maniac mode using NDS is the real difficulty

[Herr Schatten]

Looking for easy Thunder Force ? Play Thunder Force V.

Both TFIII and TFVI are way easier than TFV. At least the last boss in TFV puts up a fight.

[ROBOTRON]

You want easy try Thunderforce 6...if you can't beat that well...u might as we quit the shmuping hobby and perhaps collect bottle caps instead.