Using the hi-score board makes you a better shmup player?

[BAD]

Na, man, I never use it because I don't play enough to even touch the scores you guys have. I just have fun with my friends and family; loved multiplayer shmuppin since I was a kid. Your scores are huge, though; you guys are crazy!

[DJ Incompetent]

I lost interest in the hi-board after Live leaderboards went widespread. I never really went back unless I take up an archaic game for a replay or somethin'. An auto board database thing really has to be integrated into the first post. APIs gotta go out for all these leaderboard games too so these boards can pull from them. 2009, man. 'Need some frigging convergence. 'Some synergy or some shite.

[Smraedis]

I use them quite a lot, I mean most of my posts are usually over there..

Yeah I think it does help, I just play a game lots, if I like it, or if I feel like I can beat one of the higher scores.. then I try for it.
I feel like I would get even better at these games, if I had good local competition.. I know that helped me some on the Time Crisis games!

[Icarus]

I lost interest in the hi-board after Live leaderboards went widespread. I never really went back unless I take up an archaic game for a replay or somethin'. An auto board database thing really has to be integrated into the first post. APIs gotta go out for all these leaderboard games too so these boards can pull from them. 2009, man. 'Need some frigging convergence. 'Some synergy or some shite.

The nice thing about how it is done now is that you have the option to add images and links to replays into your score submission, so that people browsing the thread can see your progression, find something to discuss with you and other people, and pick up resources for their own play. Having just an XBLA-style submission system would remove that aspect of the forum for many people (myself included). You can probably integrate auto-submission into the way the forum posting works currently, but it will take a bit of work to organise.

Another problem is that there is such a vast amount of modes, difficulties, ship selections, and stage routes in every game listed on the high score forum, that having a single database for score submissions will become difficult to manage due to the amount of extra categories needed to organise everything. Having a database creator made for the process of creating individual databases tailored for each game would be a good first step, but there would be an issue over who maintains each database, since you'd need to watch out for spam and fake scores.

Which is another issue with XBLA-style auto-submissions - the threads have a member of the forum volunteering to watch over each thread, making sure everything is in order. I wonder how many of the mods and admins would want the added task of maintaining nearly 100 extra databases on top of what they already do.

[unsane]

i rarely post scores here....mainly cuz the lists are capped

I think this is an important point, capped lists do not foster competition and i've never understood why they exist (maybe wanting to maintain a list that doesn't need to be maintained? ) For example the last game i played seriously and would have posted scores for was Strikers 1945 II. However, the list is capped at 10, completely ridiculous - you need to 1cc a Psikyo game just to make it. So the list just forever rots.

but half the time it seems to be a rather pointless burden on the thread OP if you have some shitty score that barely scrapes in at 25th. Someone should put together a simple automated system, in my opinion.

That's not a bad idea, if updates are a burden, perhaps a shmups hiscores wiki?


Another reason i think the high score threads don't get as much love as they could, is that often the bottom score is higher than the avg shmuppers high score. We need more "low" scores unashamedly posted, to get some friendly competition happening among the mere mortals, instead of plain lists of insane scores that are unattainable.

[Plasmo]

For example the last game i played seriously and would have posted scores for was Strikers 1945 II. However, the list is capped at 10, completely ridiculous - you need to 1cc a Psikyo game just to make it. So the list just forever rots.

I really don't like how this has turned out, didn't expect to get so many good scores at the beginning. The table's really screwed these days...

[Aru-san]

i rarely post scores here....mainly cuz the lists are capped

I think this is an important point, capped lists do not foster competition and i've never understood why they exist (maybe wanting to maintain a list that doesn't need to be maintained? ) For example the last game i played seriously and would have posted scores for was Strikers 1945 II. However, the list is capped at 10, completely ridiculous - you need to 1cc a Psikyo game just to make it. So the list just forever rots.

I think the reason why we have capped lists is because lists get longer that way and, thus, take up lots of room. Thus, they cap the scores to clear up some space, but then comes the problem of shitty players not being able to make it to the list because of it.

but half the time it seems to be a rather pointless burden on the thread OP if you have some shitty score that barely scrapes in at 25th. Someone should put together a simple automated system, in my opinion.

That's not a bad idea, if updates are a burden, perhaps a shmups hiscores wiki?

Another reason i think the high score threads don't get as much love as they could, is that often the bottom score is higher than the avg shmuppers high score. We need more "low" scores unashamedly posted, to get some friendly competition happening among the mere mortals, instead of plain lists of insane scores that are unattainable.

If I were to take over a popular high score list that was going on, I can probably remove the cap (if there ever was one to begin with) so that way, us shit players can enjoy the fun as well instead of score players stealing the show all the time.

Or rather, if I were allowed to, I can make a separate "[insert game here] for loser players", but then that would be loser discrimination seeing that they don't really get to visibly be with the other players on the main board (because it's capped). Then again, I am a member of Team Loser, so I wouldn't really give a damn about sucking at a video game anyway.

[CStarFlare]

This manually updating thing we do here is bullshit./

Despite my response to Davey above, I do totally disagree with you here CStarFlare. I think the process of updating and such is where the sense of community I keep harping on about comes from. When a thread is active with updates and submissions, that's where the competition and fun kicks in.

We can still have a thread for discussions and bragging, but to have an automatically updated board is really nice. It's instantaneous, nothing can be overlooked, the thread can't be forgotten, and if you build it right you could filter/split scores based on ship, system, etc to fit your preference, or query a list of someone's submitted scores. There's no "I didn't want to bump the thread for a score that takes 53rd place/isn't significantly better than my last/etc" going on, which would increase participation. And no capping.

It brings so much flexibility and convenience for everyone involved (except for whoever has to build it. Like Icarus said, these things vary so much that it's probably a logistical nightmare). Discussion can continue independent of the score board itself.

I always use VJArmy (now [url=http://iidx.solidstatesquad.com/]Solid State Squad[/quote]) as an example of a well designed score tracker that works really well. Something like that for shmups would be heavenly.

[third_strike]

Pretty sure of my low skills I am avoiding:
- Play in active threads = because I am slow and is annoying see the person doing in one week what I can do in 2 months.
- Play games/cave where miss caps score = because my ship/character have one bullet imam.
- Play games/psikyo where I can't pass of second stage = because is impossible play for score in this way.
- Play 30 games in same time.
- Most important thing: Play one game during one week and hope do one decent score or enter in one score table in this time = because I am not ... .

Cool!

[Aquas]

Yeah I use 'em. Like some people here I tend to only submit scores that I have put a more than average effort in to, or for games I have cleared. I think that's a good guideline to go by for submitting, lest it was automated somehow to encourage competition. Sometimes the Hi-score boards have information and discussion that the Strategy topics do not, I'd like to add.

[Necronopticous]

In my opinion, the Hi-Score forum is the heart of this message board. I think that a lot of members who are disheartened by the scoreboards see them as unwelcoming and purely competitive. This is a real shame, because I think that most of the members who run and frequent them would agree that the intent is entirely opposite. I have always seen the scoreboards as more cooperative than anything, since those who are currently invested in the game will normally jump at the opportunity to discuss it and, in most cases, are happy to have more players on board--It's always more fun to get and post better scores when there are more participants.

Also, I'm a bit surprised at the concern over how the scoreboards are currently run here. I find the current system to be vastly superior to an automated system because of the individual care that goes into each board. That so many members are willing to bother with the responsibility of moderating and updating scoreboards themselves really says something about the community, and has a lot to do with why many members who use the scoreboards are motivated to achieve higher scores, I think.

[Rob]

For example the last game i played seriously and would have posted scores for was Strikers 1945 II. However, the list is capped at 10, completely ridiculous

In-game charts have (hilarious) caps. You might see that as a benefit to user maintained charts, but having to try to do well is the point. I think caps are fine, though 10 is a bit skimpy for Strikers II. If the score isn't high enough for a capped forum chart, work on improving your score on the in-game chart first.

[Twiddle]

Posting in the hi-score board may not necessarily improve your game, but not posting in it makes you a pretty terrible poster (see people who post exclusively in off-topic forum for such examples)

[spadgy]

I have always seen the scoreboards as more cooperative than anything

This. This is what I meant by the community spritit I was on about. Sharing ideas and enthusiasm and working together to climb the board. There's a touch of competition, but really it's about improving collectively.

Which is why...

Also, I'm a bit surprised at the concern over how the scoreboards are currently run here. I find the current system to be vastly superior to an automated system because of the individual care that goes into each board.

...is something I agree with.

(though you do have a valid point CStarFlare).

And as for this...

my low skills

Yeah Right! Check out that score on the Buzz table!

Finally - capping? It has to happen on popular games, but I think you can go fairly big - like 30 to 50 places... That's what I've done on my Deathsmiles board...

[DEL]

Dragoforce wrote;

The high score boards (here and on other forums) are pretty much the reason why I play shmups. I there wheren't any people to compete against and to compare my scores against I would probably have tired at the genre long ago.

Its always been this. The rest is trashtalk.
Same sentiments as Ruldra.
Without a score or distance goal there's no impetus to play a shooter for me.

Aru-san wrote;

Same can be said for pretty much any score player that can manage to rape a game within his first few tries. (stares at sikraiken)

Me too. I still can't grasp how he doubled his already high Progear score in just one night after groobo posted 115mil

spadgy wrote;

I like to think I play for score over survival and/or 1CC, but in reality it's an ungainly attempt at all three.Still, score's most important to me - so I guess that's why I love the score-boards here.

I always do the opposite. I play for distance first and I know why, its CUZ I'm old and come from a time when scores maimly came from distance play in arcades. I can't and won't break the habit .

[spadgy]

You old DEL? Who'd have guessed!

[cools]

I jot down or photograph my own scores and attempt to beat them but I have no competitive streak whatsoever, so I'm only ever playing against myself.

It's quite unlikely I'll ever achieve the kind of scores worthy of inclusion on the boards here, simply due to the amount of time I put in. Case in point - got Espgaluda yesterday, played 5 credits total over the course of the evening in between doing other things.

[Ed Oscuro]

For example the last game i played seriously and would have posted scores for was Strikers 1945 II. However, the list is capped at 10, completely ridiculous

In-game charts have (hilarious) caps.

Ahh, the good old days of Atari and Midway arcade machines with their 100+ rolls of honour

[sikraiken]

Me too. I still can't grasp how he doubled his already high Progear score in just one night after groobo posted 115mil

It wasn't one night, I think I played 17hrs or something around there that week. Most of that was end of loop 2 work. : )

[jonny5]

I jot down or photograph my own scores and attempt to beat them but I have no competitive streak whatsoever, so I'm only ever playing against myself.

It's quite unlikely I'll ever achieve the kind of scores worthy of inclusion on the boards here, simply due to the amount of time I put in. Case in point - got Espgaluda yesterday, played 5 credits total over the course of the evening in between doing other things.

+1....although my frequency of play isnt the issue, im just very inconsistent....and it seems i tend to have my best run of a session in the first couple credits and start to go downhill from there usually...

[toki]

i rarely post scores here....mainly cuz the lists are capped

I think this is an important point, capped lists do not foster competition and i've never understood why they exist (maybe wanting to maintain a list that doesn't need to be maintained? ) For example the last game i played seriously and would have posted scores for was Strikers 1945 II. However, the list is capped at 10, completely ridiculous - you need to 1cc a Psikyo game just to make it. So the list just forever rots.

but half the time it seems to be a rather pointless burden on the thread OP if you have some shitty score that barely scrapes in at 25th. Someone should put together a simple automated system, in my opinion.

That's not a bad idea, if updates are a burden, perhaps a shmups hiscores wiki?


Another reason i think the high score threads don't get as much love as they could, is that often the bottom score is higher than the avg shmuppers high score. We need more "low" scores unashamedly posted, to get some friendly competition happening among the mere mortals, instead of plain lists of insane scores that are unattainable.

While auto-updating tables are all well and good, I think it's going to take a bit of work on someone's part (ie. not mine) to get going. Is there mileage in having 'leet' and 'shitty' boards for different titles?

I personally don't make it onto the bottom of most tables, and that definitely doesn't give me the impetus I need to put in the bit of extra effort/time to get me on there. Plus the lowest score in capped boards is often way beyond anything immediately achievable anyway...

[Tigershark]

I think many of the high score lists are elitist and that in itself puts you off. I'm totally with the comment on needing to 1cc certain games to get into the top 10.

What I normally do is find a game a like and own and then play it to see how well I score. At that stage I realise how shit I am and how much I would need to play that game to get anywhere near the scores posted. That may sound defeatist but it's also the reality of enjoying this genre of gaming but not having enough time to practice to do well. The same principles do not apply to FPS's for example where you can get through to the end no matter how crap you are.

The other problem I have is that I play for score. Always. That means I have no interest in continuing or just surviving so if I have a shit run I reset. Always. What this nomally means is that I get really good at the first three levals or so and then it all goes wrong.

Anyway, I'm currently working on the Zero Gunner 2 scores. Lets see how I do.

Perhaps that last sentence answered your question?

[spadgy]

ell - I've been away for a few day but have returned to a still-interesting discussion. I would say that my initial assumption that not many people here use the hi-score boards is wrong (as 'proved' by the voting).

The other thing I would want to say is that to all the people highlighting capping and elitism and unachievable goals as a reason not to enter, try out some less overplayed games.

The Twinbee thread that I posted at that inspired me to start this thread is a typical example... There's three people on the entire list for the main game!

[Battletoad]

Since I´ve used this highscore forum, I really became a lot more motivated. It´s simply much more fun to compete against other player´s scores than just against the own ones. Especially in games where I´m far away from a 1CC. And there are plenty such games

[unsane]

For example the last game i played seriously and would have posted scores for was Strikers 1945 II. However, the list is capped at 10, completely ridiculous - you need to 1cc a Psikyo game just to make it. So the list just forever rots.

The cap has been removed, much rejoicing!

[msm]

Another reason i think the high score threads don't get as much love as they could, is that often the bottom score is higher than the avg shmuppers high score. We need more "low" scores unashamedly posted, to get some friendly competition happening among the mere mortals, instead of plain lists of insane scores that are unattainable.

i think this is a good point. i'll try and post some more scores, all of which will be low

[jpj]

it's the reason i registered, and according to my profile, where i make the most posts.

i'm glad you started this topic spadgy, because it's something i find odd as well. i wont name names, but we all know who the chronic off-topic spammers are who never post scores - we got one or two in this thread - it makes you wonder why they bother visiting; it could be a cheese forum for all they'd notice.

and i've never understood why people complain about capped tables. i had this with one of my score threads, so i ended up uncapping it. and despite having unlimited places, and me bumping it periodically, i didn't receive a single new score in 4 months. i think people *think* that's why they aren't posting scores, but the reality is they simply can't be bothered. i hope to see you posting some strikers scores now unsane

and another type of person that doesn't help is those people (again i wont name names) who feel the need to protect the reputation of their alter-ego, and refuse to post a score unless it puts them straight in with a top 3 score. and when they decide they're not actively playing a game anymore, request that their scores be removed in case anyone should over-take them as if the other 20+ people on a score table are also actively playing the game

i post scores for almost every game i play, whether good or bad; and post every time i've made an increase in score. if each member did this, the high score and strat sections would be buzzing with activity. there are tables on here which haven't received new score entries for over a year. i've never seen anyone made to feel embarassed about a low score (and indeed anyone trying to do so would be the one who would end looking like a twat). all people would have to do is post every time they increase their score on any given game. but they wont - because they can't be bothered

[spadgy]

I absolutely agree with pretty much everything you're saying jpj.

I definately believe that unashamedly submitting your low scores is healthy for all who use the given thread.

And I also think it's daft when people refuse to submit their first high scores on a given game. If everybody starts with their more humble high-scores, then you all get to see each other climb, and get motivated by other people rising through the ranks around you/

I still can't decide whether I think perhaps there is a place for caps if a game gets insanely high numbers of entrants. I'm experimenting with 50 for Deathsmiles at the moment.

I rarely go in off-topic in comparison to other parts of the forum, so I'm not so hot on the spammers there. Probably the usual suspects though, but they add some character! And could do with submitting more scores!

[jpj]

for tables that get a lot of posters, but have more than one character/ship, i tend to split them and cap them at a sensible amount. like charlie said, i actually think capping in principle is good - it's important to have targets to aim for. the trick is capping it at the right number. but the compromise i reached by splitting the tables for characters was that very rarely will all characters be used equally. so even if you can't get on the top 40 for doj with the type A ship, the type B chart is half empty.

so perhaps for your deathsmiles thread you could do an overall top 25 scores (across all characters) for standard arcade mode, and then 4 character specific tables as well. i think it's a system that works well. the trouble you have is that deathsmiles now has like a billion different modes, purple nurple label, etc

it's a bit late now, but i might compile a list of every score thread that is half empty, and we'll see what happens

[captpain]

Pssh, don't bash just frittering away time on the Shmups Forum, because it owns.