DUX for Dreamcast

mjclark · Post by **mjclark** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 4:48 pm

E. Randy Dupre wrote:You couldn't make this shit up. It's the perfect end to a perfect story.

Damn right!
This game's given me so much fun and I havn't even opened it yet

If a revised version is produced , will our original, buggy, score-broken versions become astonishlngly valuable collectors items?

Udderdude · Post by **Udderdude** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 4:50 pm

mjclark wrote:If a revised version is produced , will our original, buggy, score-broken versions become astonishlngly valuable collectors items?

No.

jonny5 · Post by **jonny5** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 4:50 pm

RHE wrote:Why this?

why? seriously

you delayed the hell out of this game, removed key features that were selling points(modes and loops) and the game is broken....in the first stage no less....and none of your playtesters caught it....

so once again you are using the paying customers as guinea pigs and releasing unfinished/broken games only to have to re-issue it with revisions....

very un-professional to say the least

RHE · Post by **RHE** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 4:52 pm

The game isn't broken.

You can do a lot of miling with games like Thunder Force IV too, which makes the game uninteresting for scoring players but not broken.

Not no mentioned the countless CAVE games with counter stop.

jonny5 · Post by **jonny5** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 4:57 pm

RHE wrote: Not no mentioned the countless CAVE games with counter stop.

no...please do....this should be good

antares · Post by **antares** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 4:59 pm

RHE wrote: Ineed. For my customers I'm going to offer a solution soon.

While you're at it please iron out the other bugs/disappointments too:

- Continue Bug (you can not not continue)
- The score should start at 0 when you continue or at least the last digit should count the number of continues as in several other shmups.
- Please make cusomizeable button config in the options menu
- It would be nice if the normal shot could cause a little more damage to get rid of this euroshmup-feeling

Udderdude · Post by **Udderdude** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 5:03 pm

antares wrote:- Continue Bug (you can not not continue)
- The score should start at 0 when you continue or at least the last digit should count the number of continues as in several other shmups.

haha are you serious? The score doesn't even reset when you continue?

RHE · Post by **RHE** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 5:04 pm

Continue Bug (you can not not continue)

Can you explain this? The game has a limited amount of credits like R-Type Delta etc.

- The score should start at 0 when you continue or at least the last digit should count the number of continues as in several other shmups.

Why isn't it enough, that the score stops by using all credits?

- Please make cusomizeable button config in the options menu

Not this time. I can recommend to use original hardware.

- It would be nice if the normal shot could cause a little more damage to get rid of this euroshmup-feeling

You must use the main beam more often. You can add power to defence by using the pod.

E. Randy Dupre · Post by **E. Randy Dupre** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 5:06 pm

Wondered how long it'd take you to take your regular defensive position of "it's just like / better than Cave game X". You pull that line every single time somebody comes at you with a valid complaint. Either that or you try and make out that you're the innocent party and it's your customers who're at fault.

What you need to do is stop bullshitting people and apologise for what's ultimately a pretty major fuck-up. If the scoring system's broken, then the game *is* broken - as has already been stated, it's a score-based shooter. If the scoring does't work as intended, it's broken. Simple as.

This, combined with the endless delays, combined with the way in which you responded to that guy complaining about your inability to update your own customers properly, makes you look like a cowboy. You're relying on the custom of a *very* small niche of, on the whole, knowledgeable people. You screw with them or continue to act with absolute arrogance when you get things wrong, you'll find your sales dwindling away to nothing.

I don't care either way, because I'm not stupid enough to give you my money. And also, it's funny to see this all turn out exactly as prophesised. I still feel bad for those people who did lay down their hard-earned for a busted product, though.

jonny5 · Post by **jonny5** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 5:07 pm

jonny5 wrote:
RHE wrote: Not no mentioned the countless CAVE games with counter stop.
no...please do....this should be good

nothing? come on guy.....

lmk when you find one

Udderdude · Post by **Udderdude** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 5:12 pm

jonny5 wrote:
jonny5 wrote:
RHE wrote: Not no mentioned the countless CAVE games with counter stop.
no...please do....this should be good
nothing? come on guy.....

lmk when you find one

DFK 1.0 (Doesn't really count since patched)
Guwange (You still need to be really good to do this, plus autofire)
Futari 1.5 Ultra (You need to be absolutely Godlike to do this)

All compared to DUX 1.0, where you could CS it on stage 1 almost by accident

croikle · Post by **croikle** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 5:13 pm

There are 3 that I know of: Guwange, Futari 1.5 Ultra, and DFK 1.0. The first two are hard enough to deserve it, and only happen near the end of the game.

sniped by the man with the udders

RHE · Post by **RHE** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 5:13 pm

And also, it's funny to see this all turn out exactly as prophesised.

You only see what you want to see. Nothing of yours and others stupid hate prophies come true at all. There's only a VERY small bug but there's going to be a solution soon, and can only repeat this: there's going to be an solution. I don't recall some one mentioning that the is going to feature a scoring bug. But you do?

What is see is that Jochen has fun with the game, and he's not the only one. And he's rather a survial type of player then a scoring. Which says it all.

antares · Post by **antares** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 5:14 pm

RHE wrote:
Continue Bug (you can not not continue)
Can you explain this? The game has a limited amount of credits like R-Type Delta etc.

Yeah, but in R-Type Delta etc. you can choose to end the game after the first credit. If you loose all lifes in Dux you see the message "Press Start To Continue" but regardless which button you press, you continue!!!

RHE wrote:
- The score should start at 0 when you continue or at least the last digit should count the number of continues as in several other shmups.
Why isn't it enough, that the score stops by using all credits?

Because if you're playing for score you want to know how many points you got with one credit not with all credits!

RHE wrote:
- It would be nice if the normal shot could cause a little more damage to get rid of this euroshmup-feeling
You must use the main beam more often. You can add power to defence by using the pod.

Yeah, I figured that out. Still I feel the game would play better if the shot would do more damage.

jonny5 · Post by **jonny5** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 5:16 pm

Udderdude wrote:
jonny5 wrote:
jonny5 wrote: no...please do....this should be good
nothing? come on guy.....

lmk when you find one
DFK 1.0 (Doesn't really count since patched)
Guwange (You still need to be really good to do this, plus autofire)
Futari 1.5 Ultra (You need to be absolutely Godlike to do this)

All compared to DUX 1.0, where you could CS it on stage 1 almost by accident

which was my point.....if you can beat futari ultra, who cares what the score is.....

i actually wasnt aware you could counter stop guwange

although if you can only do it with autofire its not really fair either.....if you cant do it on default settings and hardware its not really a glitch

and as you said, dfk1.0 was fixed shortly after release.....

although i would have prefered RHE to take his foot out of his mouth and break that down for me.....it woudl have been funnier at least

RHE · Post by **RHE** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 5:19 pm

Yeah, but in R-Type Delta etc. you can choose to end the game after the first credit. If you loose all lifes in Dux you see the message "Press Start To Continue" but regardless which button you press, you continue!!!

I see. But that only means that people who either don't loose all credits, or win the game, won't be able to save their score.

Because if you're playing for score you want to know how many points you got with one credit not with all credits!

I understand this, but can you explain to me the exact reason why you want ot know this? I mean where does it help you to know this?

This however is going to be improved very likely.

Jockel · Post by **Jockel** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 5:24 pm

I understand this, but can you explain to me the exact reason why you want ot know this? I mean where does it help you to know this?

It helps in highscore lists, which are pointless for your game, though.

moozooh · Post by **moozooh** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 5:25 pm

RHE wrote:Are your serious or sarcastic? :)

Well, actually, both. I can describe the situation as a rather sad self-parody. There was hype, and there were promises, and there were preorders, and there was a lot of time spent, and, at the same time, there was a glaring evidence of an unprofessional approach which made the end result not live up to all that. In short, people have predicted it would flop, and it did flop.

Morals?

Don't advertise features you won't put in. There was enough time to implement them. You could as well take the time to do so.
Don't make a scoring system if you don't care for it. Don't pretend you know anything about them if you clearly don't. Ask other developers for advice, there's an abundance of them on these very forums.
Don't accept preorders in the first place if you consider a possibility you won't accept them due to personal reasons. You are running a shop, not a bank. The money these people have sent you already did their job of helping you finish the game so you could sell it in the first place.
If you happen to spend over a year on development, please do bother to find skilled players to play-test your game. Hint: they should not be your friends who wouldn't say anything bad about your game (because most of them won't even see anything bad in the first place).

On a lighter note, I'd like to see you try a vertical shmup with emphasis on score next time.

antares · Post by **antares** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 5:31 pm

RHE wrote: I see. But that only means that people who either don't loose all credits, or win the game, won't be able to save their score.

Why wouldn't it be possible to save the score after you selected "No" on the continue screen?

RHE wrote: I understand this, but can you explain to me the exact reason why you want ot know this? I mean where does it help you to know this?

I think everyone who plays shmups even a little bit serously has the aim to get as far as they can with one credit and to improve the score during one credit.

Also what Jockel said

RHE · Post by **RHE** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 5:52 pm

Well, actually, both. I can describe the situation as a rather sad self-parody. There was hype, and there were promises, and there were preorders, and there was a lot of time spent, and, at the same time, there was a glaring evidence of an unprofessional approach which made the end result not live up to all that. In short, people have predicted it would flop, and it did flop.

Morals?

Don't advertise features you won't put in. There was enough time to implement them. You could as well take the time to do so.
Don't make a scoring system if you don't care for it. Don't pretend you know anything about them if you clearly don't. Ask other developers for advice, there's an abundance of them on these very forums.
Don't accept preorders in the first place if you consider a possibility you won't accept them due to personal reasons. You are running a shop, not a bank. The money these people have sent you already did their job of helping you finish the game so you could sell it in the first place.
If you happen to spend over a year on development, please do bother to find skilled players to play-test your game. Hint: they should not be your friends who wouldn't say anything bad about your game (because most of them won't even see anything bad in the first place).

1. The game doesn't flop at all. It it holds what I promise about it, beside a bug. Btw, do you play the game? Do you think ts a fail, because plasmo found a stupid scoring bug? How about the game itself? Do you even know it? Does anybode besided 3 people now it? I see too much people here who just want to to crap with game games, and that's pretty much it.

I never told people this game is going to be great as DDP. These people are not into the games target group anyway.

2. Theres only one feature that didn't find into thats was promised: 3 loops

3. I care about scoring enough to implent them into my games, and there's only a very small bug, other then that the scoring system works. It is just a stupid bug. and such bugs happens from time to time even with expierenced devs. They just happens some times.

I also know enough about scoring to make one, I'm only currently lacking of very small details, as scoring is fragile.

On a lighter note, I'd like to see you try a vertical shmup with emphasis on score next time

To see it flop?

Also what Jockel said

Why doesn't make it sense? I don't get it.

Jockel · Post by **Jockel** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 6:00 pm

Well because people ALWAYS compare their score after 1 credit.
And on the other hand it doesn't matter, because the scoring is broken anyway.

RHE · Post by **RHE** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 6:09 pm

Got it.

Hydeux · Post by **Hydeux** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 6:32 pm

RHE wrote:
Where are my three loops, where are my different difficulties and where the heck is my risk and reward scoring system. Crying or Very sad
That three loops had to be disabled, because they were unbalanced at the date of the feature lock. The risk and reward system is already there.

"the date of the feature lock", you mean August 2008 ?

Well, not that funny I know, but...
well, I just feel like I paid for getting the right to speak my mind : no button config', no difficulty modes, no loops, 10 months of waiting after you took our money, people (just one ?) who got their pre-order canceled 'cause you didn't like their tone (but don't you take this too personnal...

), a scoring system broken after TWO days (!!!) which means nobody ever tried the game during those 10 months, a "visibility" option so that you can (and you will, trust me !) remove the background in order to understand what happen on-screen : you did a game for YOURSELF, not a game for players !

And actually, you still can be proud of it : music, graphs, packaging are great and 'till tonight I was figuring out scoring techniques (during job

!), then I got home, and the game has lost a large (the most ?) part of its interest for a large (the most ?) part of the players ?!?

Man, before canceling the orders of the ones who trusted you and gave you their money, respect your words and your customers !

I'm going back to Shooting Love 200x !!! It's ugly, but it's worth its money !

Twiddle · Post by **Twiddle** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 6:34 pm

incredible

RHE · Post by **RHE** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 6:37 pm

Final statement to this pointless scoring bug discussion: There's going to be a solution for customers with score bug disc soon, so they can play the game w/o bug. I try to make it as cheap as possible for you, maybe even for free.

I do respect the word of my customers at any time as long as they respect me. I also think its sad, this bug over shadowes the qualites of this game, and the responses at this board are ridiclious and disrespecting. This game is not a fail, you can proof it yourself soon.

Here's my advice to you people at hits thread: Calm down.

antares · Post by **antares** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 6:44 pm

To be fair I have to say I liked what I've played from the game so far (stage 4) and I think on the whole it's a good achievement for a homebrew game.
Also I didn't have any problems with the visibility whatsoever (and I played on the default setting).

Hydeux · Post by **Hydeux** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 6:51 pm

I'm really calm, and I don't forget the qualities of the game (I said it in my two posts up here : th game's great !), but after so long a waiting, you can hardly ask for us to just shut up and wait in front of such INCREDIBLE issues (the biggest being the scoring system broken in less than 2 days)...

Still i wish you well to find a solution...

moozooh · Post by **moozooh** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 7:00 pm

Hydeux wrote:Still i wish you well to find a solution...

If you're lucky, the solution will be found for free. Maybe.

RHE · Post by **RHE** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 7:19 pm

I finally know the problem of this scoring bug. It's not really a bug, its just that 1(!) enemy at stage 1(!) has a(!) shot, that gives too much score. That's it. This scoring system itself works, it's just one small mistake. Not a drama at all.

Wow.

This game is so bad. It's so broken. It's a epic fail, a flop. I'm so bad. I'm the worst designer ever. All I do is crap. I'm so hating on my customers, betraying them and make my self look as I have knowlege about shmups. But I don't know nothing of shumps, I don't even can spell it right. Everybody must hate me.

Plasmo · Post by **Plasmo** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 7:20 pm

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=68CPKFPE

And here's a little video of the bug in action.
Sorry for the crap quality...

Congrats on getting your own first counterstop (if your name is not DEL or Mills)