Battle Bakraid.... why?

[Dave_K.]

But then again, you could argue that scoreplay is limited to a select few people, while the rest just prefer to play for fun.

You are forgetting about the people who play for the clear. I pretty much play every game for the clear first, and then go for score. Sometimes learning the scoring strats and watching superplays too early corrupts this goal, and makes people anal about scoring well in the early levels, which will only lead to frustration.

As Smraedis pointed out, Bakraid is a great game for beginners because of the easy clear on training and normal modes. Advance and Special (boss only) modes are much harder to clear, in fact in over 4 years since the Bakraid HS thread was started, NOBODY ON THIS BOARD HAS POSTED A CLEAR IN THESE MODES! Is this not a noble enough shmup challenge? Nobody is making you suicide chain your way to the clear, and its certainly not required, yet people quit playing it simply because they are not able to score as seen in the superplays, then make excuses about it being broken or the worst way to play.

[Aru-san]

As Smraedis pointed out, Bakraid is a great game for beginners because of the easy clear on training and normal modes. Advance and Special (boss only) modes are much harder to clear, in fact in over 4 years since the Bakraid HS thread was started, NOBODY ON THIS BOARD HAS POSTED A CLEAR IN THESE MODES! Is this not a noble enough shmup challenge? Nobody is making you suicide chain your way to the clear, and its certainly not required, yet people quit playing it simply because they are not able to score as seen in the superplays, then make excuses about it being broken or the worst way to play.

Do keep in mind that you still have to suicide to decrease the rank in the game. With extends at around 2 million points, one would have to play for score (but only to a certain extent) in order to play for survival.

Factors that affect rank (as far as Icarus' ST is concerned):
- How many lives you have hoarded.
- How long you've stayed alive on your current life.

Factors that decrease rank (as far as Icarus' ST is concerned):
- Dying (most dramatic decrease)
- Dropping extend icons
- Dropping 10K/100K medals

[Dave_K.]

Do keep in mind that you still have to suicide to decrease the rank in the game. With extends at around 2 million points, one would have to play for score (but only to a certain extent) in order to play for survival.s

Note: above I was referring to suicide timer extend chaining (what everyone here seems to hate with a passion) not regular suicide to reduce rank.

Of course, now the game becomes a typical Raizing medal run, with regular strategized suicides, just like Garegga. Getting to extends can be achieved with medal chaining, and killing clusters of large enemy to invoke the multiplier. Doesn't sound that horrible playing it now does it?

Or you saying the game is too hard to clear playing it this way? Harder than Garegga?

[Twiddle]

from irc: actually rank in bakraid depends primarily on how long you've kept a high chain value, pretty much tying rank to scoring

lives/suicides are a drop in the bucket compared to that, if they even do anything

[Icarus]

1) Just a couple thousand points from a record-breaking score (either personal, about 2/3rds of the world record, OR the world record itself) or
2) Something similar to crap runs of Raizing games where I can only manage to score about 1/3rd to half of the average player on the first stage and tend to die on accident a lot?

A bit of both.

Advance and Special (boss only) modes are much harder to clear, in fact in over 4 years since the Bakraid HS thread was started, NOBODY ON THIS BOARD HAS POSTED A CLEAR IN THESE MODES! Is this not a noble enough shmup challenge?

I'd do it myself, but my scoreplayer instincts always get in the way. You are right though, in that you're not forced to suicide your way through the game for an ALL. Theoretically, you could pick Railroad and Naval as the first two of the four set in Stage Edit, and chain those two stages and Axebeak in stage 1 only, then play conservative the rest of the way for a score around the 40mil mark.

Some day I'll take on Advanced and go for the clear...

from irc: actually rank in bakraid depends primarily on how long you've kept a high chain value, pretty much tying rank to scoring

lives/suicides are a drop in the bucket compared to that, if they even do anything

Got anything more substantial that I can add to the ST?

[croikle]

If you use the command LEFT, UP, LEFT-UP and A in-game (sort of like a shoryuken rotated 180deg), you'll activate the chain timer, which will play a tone when you chain something that affects the multiplier, and when your chain breaks.

Another essential command is RIGHT, UP, RIGHT-UP and A. This displays the chain timer and score calculations, and I'd have a hard time playing without it. I start every run with shoryu to UR and UL.

[Dave_K.]

Another essential command is RIGHT, UP, RIGHT-UP and A. This displays the chain timer and score calculations, and I'd have a hard time playing without it. I start every run with shoryu to UR and UL.

You can also HOLD C and tap UP which does the same thing but a heck of a lot easier.

[Twiddle]

from irc: actually rank in bakraid depends primarily on how long you've kept a high chain value, pretty much tying rank to scoring

lives/suicides are a drop in the bucket compared to that, if they even do anything

Got anything more substantial that I can add to the ST?

Nope, nothing concrete. I haven't found the location of the rank value yet in either direction.

Did a test with infinite chain timer with x64, though...rank goes fucking insane by stage 3 when I switch it on at the beginning large enemy of each stage and turn it off during bosses. Tried replicating the high rank without a high chain collecting excess extends and no missing and it doesn't produce as big of a result.

[Smraedis]

from irc: actually rank in bakraid depends primarily on how long you've kept a high chain value, pretty much tying rank to scoring

lives/suicides are a drop in the bucket compared to that, if they even do anything

This makes sense, if I do a full chain on Naval (as Stage 2) then Stages 3 and 4 and just near impossible to play properly..


I should be able to clear the Boss only mode, I died right at the end of the final boss on my highest scoring run, and I've got to the 7th boss on Advanced mode before.

I'll try to beat them someday soon, I'm sure it can be done

[Icarus]

Nope, nothing concrete. I haven't found the location of the rank value yet in either direction.

Did a test with infinite chain timer with x64, though...rank goes fucking insane by stage 3 when I switch it on at the beginning large enemy of each stage and turn it off during bosses. Tried replicating the high rank without a high chain collecting excess extends and no missing and it doesn't produce as big of a result.

Makes sense. I'm assuming that deaths still account for the biggest decrease (as I've seen substantial changes from a single suicide)?

[Twiddle]

Nope, nothing concrete. I haven't found the location of the rank value yet in either direction.

Did a test with infinite chain timer with x64, though...rank goes fucking insane by stage 3 when I switch it on at the beginning large enemy of each stage and turn it off during bosses. Tried replicating the high rank without a high chain collecting excess extends and no missing and it doesn't produce as big of a result.

Makes sense. I'm assuming that deaths still account for the biggest decrease (as I've seen substantial changes from a single suicide)?

Doesn't seem to be anywhere near as effective at reducing rank as Garegga or Batrider, at least.

[captpain]

Is clearing Advanced possible just by blasting through without any attention to chaining? I like to play Bakraid like a Youtuber from time to time and just shoot everything, but I wonder if I'm wasting my time on Advanced. It seems like you'd get enough extends just from keeping your medals coming in, because the extends require so few points. Normal certainly worked this way.

[Enhasa]

While it certainly appears to be deep and rewarding to those that want to put the time into it, I have a feeling that half the stuff you do for a good score in that game is stuff Raizing didn't even intend.

Ummm, I dunno about you, but I wish every game I played was full of stuff you can do that the developers didn't expect. IMHO the best games are the ones that ended up even better than the devs themselves intended. I don't want to waste my time in the kiddie pool being told what to do. Bees and poles and such bug me even more in Cave games than chaining.

OTOH, I think intentional (i.e. fake) emergent gameplay is just as stupid. Devs should just create games as they want and not pay attention to either restricting players or forcing interactions. The modern application of user-centered design (good for normal software) to games is the biggest reason why games aren't better as a medium. A good artist doesn't mind pissing off the audience.

[Twiddle]

great sig