I have lost all respect in the Democratic party(US Politics)

[PaCrappa]

Just now you've lost all respect? A little late to the party methinks. The dems haven't been anything more or less than the republos in disguise for decades. Both parties shit on their own citizenry yet people still vote. The whole thing makes no sense. By design.

Pa

[captain ahar]

...Kylie Minogue...

you're right, she does have a great ass.

also, i have a funny story... for me anyway. my junior year of high-school in american history, i had a student teacher. in a lecture on the mexican-american war, one day, we were talking about texas. he began to talk about how texas should secede from the united states and form their own country, after all it "wouldn't change things for them" and he wouldn't have to be embarrassed about being associated with it. please understand i don't (necessarily) feel this way, but i liked him and found it a hilarious aside to include in a history lecture.

[greg]

I agree with two-third of that statement. But you know supporting the death penalty and being against abortion sorta makes no sense.

What doesn't make sense to me is that the same people who would fight to tears over the life of a heartless, inhuman, child-molesting murderer scheduled to be executed would also callously terminate an innocent child's life because his/her existence in this world could be considered "inconvenient."

[sethsez]

I agree with two-third of that statement. But you know supporting the death penalty and being against abortion sorta makes no sense.

What doesn't make sense to me is that the same people who would fight to tears over the life of a heartless, inhuman, child-molesting murderer scheduled to be executed would also callously terminate an innocent child's life because his/her existence in this world could be considered "inconvenient."

Maybe because people don't believe a barely-developed fetus is a human life.

[The n00b]

I agree with two-third of that statement. But you know supporting the death penalty and being against abortion sorta makes no sense.

What doesn't make sense to me is that the same people who would fight to tears over the life of a heartless, inhuman, child-molesting murderer scheduled to be executed would also callously terminate an innocent child's life because his/her existence in this world could be considered "inconvenient."

ouch Greg, have mercy! Seriously, it truly is stupid to associate opinions on the death penalty with opinions on abortion. It's like saying someone should be completely like me in every way or they are uncivilized savages.

[FRO]

[quote="dtdgBut you know supporting the death penalty and being against abortion sorta makes no sense.
I disagree with the republican party on many issues, If they're against the abortion (rightly so) and for death penalty, it sorta makes their philospy hypocritical. I'am against abortion and somewhat against the death penalty.[/quote]

No hypocrisy there. The Death Penalty is in place for individuals who have, of their own volition, taken a human life. They have taken that person away from friends, family, and the livelyhood they had. The Death Penalty was set up as a deterrent system - in other words, make an example out of those who take human life by taking theirs. It's not hypocritical, it's balance. If properly administered, the Death Penalty would likely reduce the rate of murder in this country (in other words, if everyone who killed someone was executed within a short time) because it would show everyone (except those that aren't afraid to die) that the government means business.

Think of it like commerce. I know it's a rough (and somewhat disturbing) analogy, but it works. If you buy something, you pay money for it. If you are trading with someone, you try and trade items that are of equal or similar value. In the same way, if you take a life, you should be willing to give up your own in exchange. Your life may or may not be as full and meaningful as the person you killed, but nonetheless you should be willing to sacrifice yourself so that no one else is killed by you, and so that person's death is answered by your own.

Abortion is murder as far as I'm concerned. Support for the death penalty and being anti-abortion are NOT disparate subjects. They are, in fact, quite related to one another. Abortion is the taking of a life that has just begun. The Death Penalty is in place because a life was taken. IMO, abortion should be outlawed and those committing abortions should be given the same punishment as someone who murders a regular person on the street.

Now before the flame-war commences, please understand that while I hold these views, I don't see the practical application of that in our society, nor do I believe that given our present culture & society this is even feasible. Society has strayed too far from fundamental beliefs about right and wrong for this type of black/white thinking to be acceptable in today's political landscape.

*dons fireproof suit*

[neorichieb1971]

I think politicians are in it for their own self gain. Corperate America + US politics = Selling out the country.

The only factors that worry me are US$ is down, Gas prices are UP.

Everything else financially related is insignificant to the power of the force (the 2 things mentioned above).


The companies i've worked for recently are squeezing things so tight they have not hired in our dept for over a year. Its all contractors including myself. Its definately uncertainty causing this BS!


I don't know whos to blame but maybe someone can answer.

Why do the working class suffer so much at the hands of the rich. Every company wants profits profits profits. They are willing to squeeze the sponge until no water is left. Working class borrow more or need more time to borrow, work their asses off in companies that have share holders which rape the working class again. If thats corperate America you can keep it?

[CMoon]

The US needs a King!

[neorichieb1971]

Isn't a King or any form of royalty against the constitution.


I feel the party's that get voted in do the same stuff because its the Congress which stop the powers that be. The President is only one vote against how many 100's of congress there are.

Things would be much different otherwise.


Also, the 8 year term of being president is also counter productive imo. I mean 8 years work can be undone in 6 months by their successor. There is no productivity in doing, undoing, doing, undoing etc etc.

[Acid King]

The democrats are jerk offs and are no better than the Republicans. It's cliche but it's true, it's really the Republicrats and the Demopublicans. They're both full of shit. Both parties simply pay lipservice to their constituencies and theoretical ideals, yet both constituencies continue to vote for and support their condidates even though the party apparatus doesn't do much of anything. I refuse to vote for either party in a national election. I throw my vote away on the Libertarians every chance I get.

[Acid King]

I wouldn't call the foreign press "liberally biased" - most of it isn't. Rather, the US has so many hardcore conservatives that everything else seems liberal by comparison.

Ther'es no such thing as objective news. Everything is biased. It's just that people refuse to acknowledge and embrace it.

Now before the flame-war commences, please understand that while I hold these views, I don't see the practical application of that in our society, nor do I believe that given our present culture & society this is even feasible. Society has strayed too far from fundamental beliefs about right and wrong for this type of black/white thinking to be acceptable in today's political landscape.

it's not practical because there would be too much resistance to it. Democratic bomb throwers are continually talking about how Bush will get rid of abortion... he won't and it will never happen because the political repurcussions would be too great.

My general complaint w/ Libertarians is that they seem to hold personal property in higher esteem than life and liberty -- and would weaken the government to the point it would be hardly worth having at all.

How do you have life and liberty without property rights? The two are inextricably tied, you can't have one without the other. As for weakening the government, Libertarians are simply against taking chunks from peoples paychecks and spending it on frivolous crap. Why should the government collect millions of dollars from its people only to spend it on an inefficient, ineffective war against coca in Colombia? Why should we pump millions in subsidies to our farmers so we can dump ou rexcess into third world markets and kill their jobs (Mexico lost almost 2million agricultural jobs after NAFTA was implemented due to American ag subsidies.)? Sure the government performs many vital functions, some, if not all, it could be argued could be replaced by private groups, which is an argument i don't feel like getting in to. I'll wrap up simply by saying that there are HUGE chunks of the government that can and should be hacked away, and this will result in greater liberty for everyone.

[TVG]

i would be for death penality if it wasnt BS.

way too many innocent people die because of this shit, everyone makes mistakes including judges.

so in the end, im aginst death penality.

in our modern social setting, im for abortion, even if i know its wrong and stuff, having a child today is not the same thing as having a child 200 years ago.

as an outsider, i can say im pretty disgusted by US laws, police methods and prisons etc in general anyway, but i cant really have an unbiased opinion, we aint got areas where you get shot if you're white (this is an example, dont wave the "omg racist" flag yet) or areas
where there's 2 murders every night. we're slowly getting there tho.

[dave4shmups]

I have lost all respect for BOTH parties.

BOTH are in league with big oil, which pumps money into terrorist organiztions, and the pharmacutical companies that are producing dangerous and over-priced drugs, BOTH have tried to railroad smaller third-party candidates out of running for Presidential office-they did it in '92 and '96 with Ross Perot, and they did it AGAIN in 2000, and 2004 with Ralph Nader.

And as far as the war in Iraq goes, the majority of BOTH parties voted to go into this mess, when Sudan continued (and continues to) harbor terrorists, and when Saudi Arabia, to whom BOTH parties neal in submission to, has given money to terrorist organizations, such as the Taliban and al-Qaeda.

Meanwhile, Saudi Arabia continues to treat it's Shi'ite Muslims every bit as badly as Saddam treated his, and the Government of Sudan, which has a pathetic "US Envoy for Peace", continues to wage genocide on thousands of Black Christians and Animists in Southern Sudan, and on the population in the Darfur region of Sudan.

And, finally, let's not forget that BOTH parties unconditionally support the Apartheid politics of Israel. NEITHER party has spoken out in terms of ending US AID to the Israeli Government, who seems content to keep Ghetto-izing the Palestinians, and generally treating them like the Jews were treated in the Holocaust, or the corrupt Palestinian Authority.

In short, BOTH parties have shown themselves completely incapable of implementing Energy policies that will FINALLY put this country once and for all on a path to full-reliance on renewable energy sources, Foreign policies that don't shoot themselves, and others, in the foot, and election policies that break up their dictatorial two-party monopoly on power.

[dave4shmups]

The democrats are jerk offs and are no better than the Republicans. It's cliche but it's true, it's really the Republicrats and the Demopublicans. They're both full of shit. Both parties simply pay lipservice to their constituencies and theoretical ideals, yet both constituencies continue to vote for and support their condidates even though the party apparatus doesn't do much of anything. I refuse to vote for either party in a national election. I throw my vote away on the Libertarians every chance I get.

Amen. Both parties will of course vehenemently protest otherwise-the Republicans will complain about the "biased" liberal media, like ABC, for instance, while voicing that their own Conservatively-bent Fox News is "the only fair news", when in reality, it's just a different bias.

EVERYONE has a bias, agenda, worldview, whathever you want to call it. The sooner more people in this country learn to get over that fact, the better.

[Icecap Veiwin]

I started hating Democrats as soon as they started whining about the war.

The War in Iraq, in actuality, was not as taxing as, say, Vietnam. Or we can go back further, and even say the Civil War (which was more taxing than all of our wars combined, according to my history teacher, he may be wrong though).

The human life is more valued these days, I suppose. I just don't like it when people force their opinion on others.

(BTW, I'm strictly Republican, and I at least think Bush has enough competence to know how to run the Presidency without crashing and burning. He hasn't done any good, but on the other hand he hasn't done any bad either.)

[CMoon]

To me the war in Iraq is senseless but that isn't the issue. The issue is how unpopular the US trying to do anything to help out the state of anarchy in Somalia was, but we can go into Iraq for such flimsy reasons.

The people of Somalia would gladly take Saddam Hussein as their new leader (regardless of how big a shitbag he is), because the situation in Somalia has been so much worse than anything in Iraq for something like 15 years.

I have no clue what we (or anyone) should do about Somalia, but when you take it into accont, it makes you wonder why we've sacrificed so many lives just to create another land without law.

I fail to understand (being the idealist I am), why so many nations which are indeed in a state of crisis, where people are not safe, children cannot secure an education, and basic human needs are a daily challenge to secure, take a back seat to bullshit like Iraq.

I don't mean there was NO justification for Iraq, and I'll be happy to hear all the reasons we needed to go there, but I do not believe this was so important that it deserved to be right at the top of our list of nations to go out and fuck with.

[sethsez]

The War in Iraq, in actuality, was not as taxing as, say, Vietnam.

"Hey, it's not as big a fuck-up as past wars" is not a justification in any sense. Whether it's a monumental mistake, a standard mistake or a small mistake, it's still a mistake and shouldn't have happened.

The human life is more valued these days, I suppose. I just don't like it when people force their opinion on others.

Isn't that the entire point of voting and politics in general? "If you don't like it, shut up" is a terrible idea when we're talking about shaping the future of the country.

(BTW, I'm strictly Republican, and I at least think Bush has enough competence to know how to run the Presidency without crashing and burning. He hasn't done any good, but on the other hand he hasn't done any bad either.)

Hasn't done bad? Couldn't disagree more, but then again you won't find many gay people who think he hasn't done bad. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off the destroy the American family. I spent so long converting people that I really need to catch up.

[dave4shmups]

To me the war in Iraq is senseless but that isn't the issue. The issue is how unpopular the US trying to do anything to help out the state of anarchy in Somalia was, but we can go into Iraq for such flimsy reasons.

The people of Somalia would gladly take Saddam Hussein as their new leader (regardless of how big a shitbag he is), because the situation in Somalia has been so much worse than anything in Iraq for something like 15 years.

I have no clue what we (or anyone) should do about Somalia, but when you take it into accont, it makes you wonder why we've sacrificed so many lives just to create another land without law.

I fail to understand (being the idealist I am), why so many nations which are indeed in a state of crisis, where people are not safe, children cannot secure an education, and basic human needs are a daily challenge to secure, take a back seat to bullshit like Iraq.

I don't mean there was NO justification for Iraq, and I'll be happy to hear all the reasons we needed to go there, but I do not believe this was so important that it deserved to be right at the top of our list of nations to go out and fuck with.

Good point about Somalia, CMoon.

The northern portion of the country calls itself Somaliland, and has had (relatively) safe streets, police officers, and a working government:

http://www.somalilandgov.com/

Granted, that government is based on Islamic Law-I don't agree with that, but we do business with Saudi Arabia, and other Gulf States who's Governments are based on Islamic Law, and there's NO good reason why the United States shouldn't take the lead in recognizing Somaliland as a sovereign country.

Somalia has no business being forced together into one country by the US, and other Western nations, when both the north and the south had completely seperate colonizers, and therefore, two completely different colonial histories.

[matt]

Ther'es no such thing as objective news. Everything is biased. It's just that people refuse to acknowledge and embrace it.

Yes. But it is not always "liberally" biased. There many directions in which you can bias yourself.

What doesn't make sense to me is that the same people who would fight to tears over the life of a heartless, inhuman, child-molesting murderer scheduled to be executed would also callously terminate an innocent child's life because his/her existence in this world could be considered "inconvenient."

Is this the kind of argument that the "faith-based family values" voting block listens to? What about "love thine enemy", "all men are born equal", "judge not lest ye be judged yourself", etc? Jesus tried to tell us not to be judgemental of others, and not to kill/hurt people out of spite or revenge.

Given his experiences with the practice, would Jesus be a fan of the death penalty?

When it comes down to it, people who are pro-abortion aren't necessarily desensitized baby killers. Most of it depends on your definition of where life starts - the real argument is whether it begins at conception or somewhere else down the road, not whether it's OK to throw human lives in the dumpster. Remember that contraception is frowned upon in the Catholic church not because it encourages illicit sex, but because it "pre-emptively" kills babies. It's all a matter of perspective (and no, I'm not claiming a position either way here).

Whatever you or I might think of abortion in our own personal lives, it's something that real people do, for reasons that aren't going to disappear just by shouting about the symptoms. The women I've known who've gotten abortions weren't self-absorbed killers - they were scared, alone, and had very little hope. People in those situations need to be supported and listened to instead of demonized.

Just some stuf to think about... Life is a difficult thing to understand, eh?

[neorichieb1971]

Contraseptives and abortion is causing a crisis in the USA isn't it?

It appears that each couple is only reproducing 1.44 children at the moment. The USA is combatting this by relaxing immigration laws which is causing an influx of non educated Mexicans to enter the country and burden the very system they are brought in to protect.

Americans are simply cutting back because 35 years ago it was common for only the man of the family to bring in the cash. Now its expected that both adults in the family will work and have to bring up kids and thats a burden that i'm struggling with right now.

Did you know the average child costs like $180,000 to bring up to the age of 21? Thats a good 4 or 5 Mercedes, or 1200 Radiant Silverguns.

[matt]

The USA is combatting this by relaxing immigration laws

Since when? I've been trying to deal with US immigration law for the past 3 years, and it's definitely not getting any easier.

Maybe I just need to pretend I'm an uneducated Mexican...

If you're thinking about Bush's foreign labourer visa proposal thing (which I think is a great idea BTW), it's really for legitimizing migrant workers and has nothing to do with real immigration.

[Acid King]

Yes. But it is not always "liberally" biased. There many directions in which you can bias yourself.

...which was my point. Everything is biased to a degree, which is why complaints of bias, liberal or otherwise, are bullshit.

[Acid King]

The USA is combatting this by relaxing immigration laws

Since when? I've been trying to deal with US immigration law for the past 3 years, and it's definitely not getting any easier.

This is what causes our immigration problem. If they would just hack out the red tape, cut down the bureaucracy and streamline the process of immigration, you would have a lot less illegal immigrants. Unfortunately, politicians are retards so it will never happen.

[Neon]

I don't mean there was NO justification for Iraq, and I'll be happy to hear all the reasons we needed to go there, but I do not believe this was so important that it deserved to be right at the top of our list of nations to go out and fuck with.

We depend on oil

What doesn't make sense to me is that the same people who would fight to tears over the life of a heartless, inhuman, child-molesting murderer scheduled to be executed would also callously terminate an innocent child's life because his/her existence in this world could be considered "inconvenient."

If some psycho murdered and raped a daughter of mine, I'd rather him be assraped daily for years than giving him a quick and painless death. It'd be well worth the extra tax dollars to me.

I do agree the country's going insane. I see heartburn and sleeping pill commercials and think people should instead of taking a pill stop eating shitty food/get the psychological help they need, respectively.

[matt]

This is what causes our immigration problem. If they would just hack out the red tape, cut down the bureaucracy and streamline the process of immigration, you would have a lot less illegal immigrants. Unfortunately, politicians are retards so it will never happen.

Nah, streamlining the immigration process wouldn't do anything. The fact remains that few people here want us immigrants coming in and taking up valuable living space/employment. Even if the immigration process was a "while-u-wait" affair, the powers that be would still limit the amount of people allowed in.

The "immigration problem", so to speak, is caused by the fact that we live right next to a 3rd-world country. It'll only stop when Mexico becomes a decent place for most of its people to live.

There aren't a lot of illegal immigrants from Canada, you'll notice, even though it's a lot easier for us to sneak across the border.

[CMoon]

I don't mean there was NO justification for Iraq, and I'll be happy to hear all the reasons we needed to go there, but I do not believe this was so important that it deserved to be right at the top of our list of nations to go out and fuck with.

Our politicians depend on $$$.

Corrections made. There are many possible alternatives to oil that we'd certainly be investigating (many of them are less polluting) if they involved the same cash flow that oil does. I'd like to think before the US actually has to pay high gas prices like every other country in the world that these alternatives would be sought out, but it seems like there is so much money to be made from oil that paying twice or three times what we do at the pump is hardly an issue.

[D]

Here's my two cents


There are 2 types of politicians
The first is the kind that really wants to make the world better.
The second is the kind that wants to get as high a position in politics as he/she can get.

The first will never accomplish anything, because he/she will never get a position in which he or she can make a difference.

The second will never accomplish anything because he or she is only busy with getting a higher and better position and never wants to go against anything and be mainstream, because he or she is affraid someone in politics will hold it against him/her.




tired of writing him/her and he/she: being politically correct

I hate the US and dutch political system.

What countries have other political systems.
Maybe somewhere in the world they have a good system?

[The n00b]

Here's my two cents


There are 2 types of politicians
The first is the kind that really wants to make the world better.
The second is the kind that wants to get as high a position in politics as he/she can get.

The first will never accomplish anything, because he/she will never get a position in which he or she can make a difference.

The second will never accomplish anything because he or she is only busy with getting a higher and better position and never wants to go against anything and be mainstream, because he or she is affraid someone in politics will hold it against him/her.




tired of writing him/her and he/she: being politically correct

I hate the US and dutch political system.

What countries have other political systems.
Maybe somewhere in the world they have a good system?

I heard China has a good system. I mean they hardly complain much about anything!

[undamned]

New Death Penalty Ruling:

http://www.theonion.com/content/video/s ... th_penalty
-ud

[trivial]

badass bumpage sir
rest comfortably, laurels atop thy pate