Cave rescues Arcade industry

D · Post by D » Wed May 06, 2009 10:09 am

http://kotaku.com/5241974/bullet-hell-d ... s-for-free
If other companies will follow this example.
Shmups live, 2D lives, arcade scene lives, hoorah!
Dengeki Google translated

jpj · Post by **jpj** » Wed May 06, 2009 10:13 am

another way of spinning it would be:

deathsmiles 2 - so shit you have to give it away

Fenrir · Post by **Fenrir** » Wed May 06, 2009 10:28 am

Is it, like, a loan? As in Cave still owns the boards that are distributed across Japan? Or are they literally giving the boards away?

SuperPang · Post by **SuperPang** » Wed May 06, 2009 10:30 am

Who writes this crap. Distributors have offered rental for years. Usually bigger companies than Cave but still..

sven666 · Post by **sven666** » Wed May 06, 2009 10:41 am

someone from this forum should write and inform them that arcades are DEAD, 2D and shmups are DEAD too.. have been for well over a decade

to be honest tho ive never heard of rental schemes for such a relativeley low value item as a single PCB ? if youre an arcade op and cant muster up a measly $2000 every 6 months or so your in big trouble anyways..

cools · Post by **cools** » Wed May 06, 2009 11:07 am

Woo, profit share.

Innovative

Fenrir · Post by **Fenrir** » Wed May 06, 2009 11:50 am

Profit sharing, as an option, is not innovative.
Also board rentals has been the majority since a bloody lot of time.
But we're talking here about rentals paid with revenue sharing, so if a Death Smiles II racks a grand total of 0 yen, the arcade owner is not eliged to pay a dime, right?
This sounds fairly new to me, at least as a full-fledged option.

mr_m0nks · Post by **mr_m0nks** » Wed May 06, 2009 12:35 pm

Wonder if they will try this outside of Japan.

It would be nice to see a new Shmup in Casino Arcade not provided by one of its customers. Or even Trocadero

ave · Post by **ave** » Wed May 06, 2009 3:37 pm

Who will care if their games are gonna look like shit from now on? They sure must have noticed how much of a bummer DS II must be for the fans so they even grasp for "innovative" methods half a year before the game gets released. Promising.

Twiddle · Post by **Twiddle** » Wed May 06, 2009 3:53 pm

posting in a D thread

Fenrir · Post by **Fenrir** » Wed May 06, 2009 4:19 pm

aventus wrote:Who will care if their games are gonna look like shit from now on?

Them, for example.
Game looking like shit = no profit.

At least, when arcade owners had to buy the boards, they got their good money and they could stop caring.

Now they have to produce quality stuff to earn some dough.

mrkotfw · Post by **mrkotfw** » Wed May 06, 2009 5:12 pm

I'm sure some arcade operators will abuse this. Hopefully, they'll have some mechanism that'll tally the number of coins inserted. It'll need some heavy protection. A suicide battery perhaps?

8 1/2 · Post by **8 1/2** » Wed May 06, 2009 5:22 pm

Piratero wrote:I'm sure some arcade operators will abuse this. Hopefully, they'll have some mechanism that'll tally the number of coins inserted. It'll need some heavy protection. A suicide battery perhaps?

Even old Neo-Geo motherboards had coin-counting built in. You don't have to suicide the board to store that data.

Ganelon · Post by **Ganelon** » Wed May 06, 2009 5:29 pm

This is good; really indicates Cave has confidence in their games to deliver. Definitely hope it works out in the end.

mrkotfw · Post by **mrkotfw** » Wed May 06, 2009 5:35 pm

8 1/2 wrote:
Piratero wrote:I'm sure some arcade operators will abuse this. Hopefully, they'll have some mechanism that'll tally the number of coins inserted. It'll need some heavy protection. A suicide battery perhaps?
Even old Neo-Geo motherboards had coin-counting built in. You don't have to suicide the board to store that data.

You're right. I guess what I meant is that Cave will find a way to extract the data. But some arcade operators might tamper with the data. Say, reduce the coint count. I'm sure it'll be neglible.

yosai · Post by **yosai** » Wed May 06, 2009 5:42 pm

sven666 wrote:to be honest tho ive never heard of rental schemes for such a relativeley low value item as a single PCB ? if youre an arcade op and cant muster up a measly $2000 every 6 months or so your in big trouble anyways..

I've had some CPS2 boards with a Capcom retal lease sticker on them.

Like this. (small white sticker)

FIL · Post by **FIL** » Wed May 06, 2009 6:00 pm

More hard hitting reportage from Brian Ashcraft.

Post by **undamned** » Wed May 06, 2009 6:09 pm

yosai wrote:I've had some CPS2 boards with a Capcom retal lease sticker on them.

If I were to be serious about collecting CPS2 I would collect only YELLOW carts. They were rental. Or even more hardcore, the ORANGE carts.
-ud

jpj · Post by **jpj** » Wed May 06, 2009 6:24 pm

orange is easy. orange boards that aren't battered to fuck? not so easy

i'm curious to see how well this does. i thought the more recent cave stuff (futari, deathsmiles, and all the mago labels) had done relatively good business. is this more an issue with cave/AMI, or are the arcades struggling?

mind you, if it takes off, and they release stuff only on rental schemes, goodluck to the home hobbyist

Chi_Ryu · Post by **Chi_Ryu** » Wed May 06, 2009 8:23 pm

Piratero wrote:I'm sure some arcade operators will abuse this. Hopefully, they'll have some mechanism that'll tally the number of coins inserted. It'll need some heavy protection. A suicide battery perhaps?

Not that hard: Assumed fixed price per game (of Y100 or Y200) in contract for the first 6 months or so, mechanical coin counter *inside* the box (triggered by coins or by the service button), warranty seals to prevent tampering (if they are broken, the op pays full price for the unit).

jpj wrote:or are the arcades struggling?

This. Remember that Sega have just closed a shedload of arcades since the last non Black label Cave release. It must have them a bit worried...

agustusx · Post by **agustusx** » Wed May 06, 2009 9:10 pm

my uncle had rental arcade machines in his deli when I was a kid. Didn't think that was a big deal, but I guess renting them from the publisher is different. For a small shop its bareable to get your share when the machine owner shows up to dispense the loot, bit different for a true arcade.

This brings up the question of whether Cave is going to lock these machines so they know the data is not manipulated.

Acid King · Post by **Acid King** » Wed May 06, 2009 10:01 pm

Wonder how this will affect the price of second hand boards.

Elixir · Post by **Elixir** » Wed May 06, 2009 10:14 pm

FIL wrote:More hard hitting reportage from Brian Ashcraft.

Yeah, my thoughts too. While the guy has a genuine interest in arcade gaming, he doesn't have a clue.

Thing is, this isn't really news, much like most of the stuff on Kotaku.

Chi_Ryu · Post by **Chi_Ryu** » Wed May 06, 2009 10:38 pm

Acid King wrote:Wonder how this will affect the price of second hand boards.

I doubt this will be that popular a scheme - if a PCB can't make $1,000 in 2-3 months, it's not worth installing on site... and if it can, it's not worth leasing when you can buy and keep 100% of the revenue (assuming a resale value of the PCB of about a grand a couple of months in).

Acid King · Post by **Acid King** » Thu May 07, 2009 12:00 am

Chi_Ryu wrote: I doubt this will be that popular a scheme - if a PCB can't make $1,000 in 2-3 months, it's not worth installing on site... and if it can, it's not worth leasing when you can buy and keep 100% of the revenue (assuming a resale value of the PCB of about a grand a couple of months in).

The article doesn't really make it clear who owns the board. From the way it's described, it doesn't sound like a typical leasing scheme. Is it a typical leasing scheme, where Cave retain ownership of the boards or simply an agreement where operators agree to a specified install period, pay Cave a percentage and can keep or dump the board at the end of the install period?

gameoverDude · Post by **gameoverDude** » Thu May 07, 2009 4:07 am

mr_m0nks wrote:Wonder if they will try this outside of Japan.

It would be nice to see a new Shmup in Casino Arcade not provided by one of its customers. Or even Trocadero

I hope they do. It'd be nice to see Gameworks and D&B get some shmups and take a break from their racer/gun game of the week.

It seems like the board would be Cave's property during the rev-share deal. Cave should offer a lump-sum buyout option for the arcade owner once they've gotten a certain amount of revenue. One final payment would claim the board for the operator.

BTW, I hope Cave isn't going to do only realtime polygon 3D from now on. Surely this new hardware can do hi-res prerendered sprites. I'd like to see Cave's new arcade games basically look like 360 Death Smiles in quality.

originalz · Post by **originalz** » Thu May 07, 2009 5:36 am

Chi_Ryu wrote: This. Remember that Sega have just closed a shedload of arcades since the last non Black label Cave release. It must have them a bit worried...

Hmm, most of those Sega arcades aren't the kind of arcades you're thinking of. The majority of them were in family department stores and only held kid games and some pachislot machines for parents. You wouldn't find the kind of games we like there.

doctorx0079 · Post by **doctorx0079** » Thu May 07, 2009 4:01 pm

gameoverDude wrote: I hope they do. It'd be nice to see Gameworks and D&B get some shmups and take a break from their racer/gun game of the week.

THIS WILL NEVER EVER HAPPEN. When was the last time D&B got a new game?? A man can dream though.

agustusx · Post by **agustusx** » Thu May 07, 2009 5:50 pm

doctorx0079 wrote:
gameoverDude wrote: I hope they do. It'd be nice to see Gameworks and D&B get some shmups and take a break from their racer/gun game of the week.
THIS WILL NEVER EVER HAPPEN. When was the last time D&B got a new game?? A man can dream though.

i'm thinking at D&B your too drunk to play a shooter, that's why they have so many casual games. Now if D&B games actually worked, we would have somewhere to start.

I supposed rented hardware would come with 100% uptime guarantee

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Fri May 08, 2009 12:26 am

Kotaku, world's best news source... only about 2-3 weeks late to the game.