Cave shmups in PCSX2

kengou · Post by **kengou** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 7:25 pm

Yes, the Cave PS2 shmups work in the ps2 emulator PCSX2. However the only really playable one is DDP DOJ - which is smooth at 60 fps and even looks better than on a real PS2! Mushi and Ibara have framerate issues and run at about 40-50 fps although they are otherwise good-looking and smooth. Galuda is just an unplayable mess at 5-10 fps generally. What I'd like to know is if anybody has experience with this emulator or getting these games to work with it. There are a number of "speed hacks" and other advanced features in PCSX2 and I've tried a few of them, but so far no luck. I'd love to get Mushi up to 60 fps, at least.

Anyone with advice? And before anyone says it, I DO play them on my actual PS2, I just love the convenience of emulators.

Ruldra · Post by **Ruldra** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 7:40 pm

DOJ is supposed to run fine but here it's just awful. It runs at 80% speed even before the game starts, and it just gets worse later. I have no idea what's causing this, maybe it's my PC config (2.8 GHz, 1GB RAM)?

jonny5 · Post by **jonny5** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 7:41 pm

too slow ruldra...you really want a faster dual core CPU to run PS2 emulation at decent frame rates

clp · Post by **clp** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 7:48 pm

im looking forward to the ps2 emulation developing just because i think ps2 hardware is shit and doesnt last long .

jonny5 · Post by **jonny5** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 7:49 pm

clp wrote:im looking forward to the ps2 emulation developing just because i think ps2 hardware is shit and doesnt last long .

comparatively its not bad at all.....compared to next gen consoles the PS2 is a tank

LtC · Post by **LtC** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 7:52 pm

It's a pain in the ass to find the right plugin/speedhack/etc settings for each game.

Mushi and Ibara seem to be a lot more dependant on your CPU speed than DOJ. Good thing is that the emulation is going forward all the time, they released a new emulator some days back now and it says it's supposed to be a little faster than the previous versions, I haven't tried it much yet though. Mushi didn't really work at all a few months back and now it's a lot better, hopefully the progress to make it stable speed on even lower spec computer will be fast

For DOJ I wrote my basic graphic settings and there's a video to demonstrate the quality:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKznWnIO0nk

I think they released a new sound plugin beta or something recently as well that I didn't have before. Now I can get sound quality pretty much almost perfect. Other shmups that I've gotten to run great with pcsx2 have been Raiden III, Thunderforce VI and Gradius V.

Udderdude · Post by **Udderdude** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 8:02 pm

DOJ is the only one that seems to run decently. Mushi and Ibara require a God-like PC (might as well buy a PS2), ESPGaluda has some wierd-ass bug that causes it to run like shit most of the time, but periodically it runs fine. So it's most likely an emulator bug.

Elixir · Post by **Elixir** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 8:23 pm

PS2s are like 80 bucks, I don't see why people would rather spend hundreds in upgrading their PC just to try this out.

mrtie · Post by **mrtie** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 8:26 pm

Here my experience. Like every one else DOJ has worked at 60fps for me since 9.3, 9.5 broke the game in it's beta and Playground 1.0 or whatever they are calling it now brings it back to working awesome. Espgaluda runs by far the worst, no amount of over clocking I have done makes a bit of difference, nor does any amount of tweaking I can figure out.

My current spec are 2gb of ddr2 800, E8400@ 3.6ghz 24/7 though I have tested at 4.0 and 4.1ghz without much noticeable difference(read as 2-4 frames) 2 radeon 4870's in crossfire. XP sp3.

Mushi seems to be nearly playable and ibara seems to be the 2nd worst after espgaluda, both have serious audio glitching for me ibara being the worst of the two. Gradius V and r-type final both work perfect for me whether running off disc or iso. I have not tried the new beta of playground yet so I can give more feedback after that. I honestly don't think the other Cave games besides DOJ is ever really going to playable until someone with knowledge and time builds a custom speedhack for them, or until about 2-3 more years of emulator development and pc speed increases.

mrtie · Post by **mrtie** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 8:27 pm

Elixir wrote:PS2s are like 80 bucks, I don't see why people would rather spend hundreds in upgrading their PC just to try this out.

I don't know about you but I do not use my pc just to play emulators. I certianly didn't build my current rig to play Shmup ports emulated. It's just a nice bonus.

Elixir · Post by **Elixir** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 8:35 pm

I said upgrading, not building specifically for.

agustusx · Post by **agustusx** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 11:31 pm

This post was based on my experience with PCSX2 PG and earlier versions. Since using PCSX2 9.6 I have posted an update below.

I remember waiting years for Saturn emulation to finally get its act together, and I expect there is still a bit of waiting for the PS2. I was surprised at how quick the DC was well emulated, but it did have a simpler architecture than the PS2 or Saturn.

I have tried PS2 emulation here and there and while it has improved in the last year it is still far from perfect. PCSX2 does not run Mushi at full speed on my 2.8ghz core 2 duo with 3 gigs of ram and good video card.

As others have mentioned you have to tweak plugins and settings for each game, which is time consuming and may need changing with each revision. Currently PS2 Emulation is not convenient but in a few more years It will be my preferred way to play Mushi and Espgaluda. ESP does not seem compatible right now, but Mushi looks gorgeous via emulation.

As these old systems start dying on you, it is much more convenient to play them via emulation than replace the system. That is assuming you have a PC around that can run the software.

henry dark · Post by **henry dark** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 11:34 pm

Elixir wrote:PS2s are like 80 bucks, I don't see why people would rather spend hundreds in upgrading their PC just to try this out.

Free games?

null1024 · Post by **null1024** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 11:41 pm

henry dark wrote:
Elixir wrote:PS2s are like 80 bucks, I don't see why people would rather spend hundreds in upgrading their PC just to try this out.
Free games?

QFT.

Sadly, I'm too broke to upgrade my box, so this doesn't help me much.

Elixir · Post by **Elixir** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 12:04 am

henry dark wrote:
Elixir wrote:PS2s are like 80 bucks, I don't see why people would rather spend hundreds in upgrading their PC just to try this out.
Free games?

Upgrading your PC to play an imperfect port with a bunch of flaws like Mushi is about the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

henry dark · Post by **henry dark** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 12:24 am

Elixir wrote:
henry dark wrote:
Elixir wrote:PS2s are like 80 bucks, I don't see why people would rather spend hundreds in upgrading their PC just to try this out.
Free games?
Upgrading your PC to play an imperfect port with a bunch of flaws like Mushi is about the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

I agree, but what if you were going to upgrade your PC anyway? This would be a nice bonus (assuming emulation improves)

Saying 80$ for a PS2 is fine, but factor in the cost of getting Mushi, DOJ etc., plus the pain of finding them in the first place, and its not hard to see why this free option is attractive.

Not that I need this, I already have all these games for my PS2 anyway

TodayIsForgotten · Post by **TodayIsForgotten** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 12:33 am

I think the whole upgrading the PC to play emulated consoles is misleading. No one in their right mind says, I can play every system under the moon from ps2 to coleco or wonderswai or whatever... let me upgrade my system.

I agree the ease of use for playing emulated games on the PC can not be beat, regardless of some or many games not running correctly or at all. My computer is beefy enough and i have probably 90% of the games from ps2 and down. While i do not play them much, its nice to say hey lets try this game without having to bring out the saturn or the ps2 or whatever. So, for sake of "portability" the PC route is quite tasty.

antron · Post by **antron** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 12:36 am

it is probably the only environment where you might be able undo all the problems with mushi.

Domino · Post by **Domino** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 12:46 am

I would upgrade in a few years when MAME emulates more 3D games.

captpain · Post by **captpain** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 2:29 am

Mushi runs just fine for me.

jonny5 · Post by **jonny5** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 3:20 am

captpain wrote:Mushi runs just fine for me.

through the emu? whats your system specs?

captpain · Post by **captpain** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 3:29 am

jonny5 wrote:
captpain wrote:Mushi runs just fine for me.
through the emu? whats your system specs?

E8400
NVIDIA 8800 GTS G92
2 GB RAM (Can't remember speed)

Is there a way to enable an FPS display in PCSX2 Playground with GSDX9 plugin?

I feel like the speed is certainly maximum all the way through the first two stages, and the slowdown in the other three seems to be natural, as it looks in the superplays I see.

Anyway, help me test!

agustusx · Post by **agustusx** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 4:15 am

captpain wrote: E8400
NVIDIA 8800 GTS G92
2 GB RAM (Can't remember speed)

Is there a way to enable an FPS display in PCSX2 Playground with GSDX9 plugin?

I feel like the speed is certainly maximum all the way through the first two stages, and the slowdown in the other three seems to be natural, as it looks in the superplays I see.

Anyway, help me test!

A true FPS count would be nice, but if you use any of the frame skip settings the fps will be skewed to always show 60fps. I've got an E7400 which is a substantial stepdown from your rig, and it shows

Ultra mode definately does not run full speed.

captpain · Post by **captpain** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 4:24 am

agustusx wrote:
captpain wrote: E8400
NVIDIA 8800 GTS G92
2 GB RAM (Can't remember speed)

Is there a way to enable an FPS display in PCSX2 Playground with GSDX9 plugin?

I feel like the speed is certainly maximum all the way through the first two stages, and the slowdown in the other three seems to be natural, as it looks in the superplays I see.

Anyway, help me test!
A true FPS count would be nice, but if you use any of the frame skip settings the fps will be skewed to always show 60fps. I've got an E7400 which is a substantial stepdown from your rig, and it shows Ultra mode definately does not run full speed.

Frameskip is off...

agustusx · Post by **agustusx** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 5:08 am

Edited with updates:

So I did some testing from PCSX2 PG and the latest version PCSX 2 9.6. Without frameskip or speed hacks 9.6 is much better.

Unfortunately fraps does not tell the whole story, so I'll have to look into the plugins documentation for the fps. It is not listed as a hotkey in the interface or the website

The min FPS was lower on PCSX2 Playground when playing Mushi stage 4 ultra than on PCSX2 9.6. It appeared to play well until you hit certain enemy patterns(that do not cause slowdown on the PS2). 9.6 didn't have this problem, it remained smooth when it should have. It seems like Mushi plays at full speed now on my system, which is yummy(again compared to the PS2). Now I just need to figure out how to get rid of the outlines on the sprites. The outlines disappear when using the Zero GS plugin if bilinear filtering is disabled, by disabling texture filtering in GSDX the outlines go away.

Results with PCSX2 9.6 and the current GSDX plugin

Mushi -While it does not slowdown exactly like the PS2 version, it runs full speed and is highly playable. Stage 3 fluctuates in from 45-60fps, while other stages are mostly stable 59+ (fraps benchmarking report averages of 59.3-59.7). Without frame limiting on, early stages average 70+.

Ibara - Looks quite nice! Runs much faster than in prior releases. During the first round of testing I noted studdering, however this did not happen in later tests and the benchmarks show the FPS never went below 56. I only played two stages, but it was excellent so far.

Espgaluda -This game never worked in the past but now it does load and is technically "playable". There is horrible tiling/tearing and the game only runs at about 22fps for me.

DDP DOJ - Runs rock solid, ships and projectiles look good but the background has tiling issues. If i can get rid of the tiling issue I will shelf DOJ BLEX for the 360. Seems like i just got it though

By setting the D3D internal Res to "Native" in GSDX the tiling issue disappears. Your mileage may vary, but try this if you are having the same issue.

Raiden III -Not cave, but runs flawlessly. Looks much better than the ps2 output. Since it is 3D the additional resolution really helps make things crisp.

The Zero GS plugin failed miserably for me. DDP and Ibara ran below 30fps, Mushi had a issue that caused random junk to appear on the screen, while ESP made you think you were on drugs.

Jockel · Post by **Jockel** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 10:34 am

Elixir wrote:PS2s are like 80 bucks, I don't see why people would rather spend hundreds in upgrading their PC just to try this out.

Should work on j-pac, shouldn't it? That renders it interesting for me, because then i can play mushi on my cab.

do you guys think an AMD @ 2x 2,1ghz, 2GB DDR2-800 RAM and Radeon HD 2600XT (512mb, gpu@600mhz, ram@1200mhz) will be enough?

emphatic · Post by **emphatic** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 10:51 am

Jockel wrote:
Elixir wrote:PS2s are like 80 bucks, I don't see why people would rather spend hundreds in upgrading their PC just to try this out.
Should work on j-pac, shouldn't it? That renders it interesting for me, because then i can play mushi on my cab.

do you guys think an AMD @ 2x 2,1ghz, 2GB DDR2-800 RAM and Radeon HD 2600XT (512mb, gpu@600mhz, ram@1200mhz) will be enough?

Aren't you running Linux?

Jockel · Post by **Jockel** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 11:00 am

yeah. but i have another harddrive with windows on it, because i couldn't be arsed to do all this shit to get it running in linux.

Post by **Dave_K.** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 4:09 pm

henry dark wrote:Saying 80$ for a PS2 is fine, but factor in the cost of getting Mushi, DOJ etc., plus the pain of finding them in the first place, and its not hard to see why this free option is attractive

Wouldn't you have to find/buy mushi, doj, etc anyway to play it on the pc emulator? If someone finds the roms for free, surley they can play the same roms on the PS2 via HDLoader for free...so your point is, well pointless.

agustusx · Post by **agustusx** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 4:22 pm

Jockel wrote: Should work on j-pac, shouldn't it? That renders it interesting for me, because then i can play mushi on my cab.

do you guys think an AMD @ 2x 2,1ghz, 2GB DDR2-800 RAM and Radeon HD 2600XT (512mb, gpu@600mhz, ram@1200mhz) will be enough?

Up until 2 weeks ago I had an AMD 5000+ which was a dual 2.5ghz, 2GB ram and a 8800GTS, mushi did not run well at all under PCSX2 Playground. Maybe its improved with the 9.6 release.