shmups and beamer - good idea?

bob · Post by **bob** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 5:10 pm

For quite some time I'm looking for a big screen I will mainly use to play shmups on.
The problems with PC screens is that they don't go as big as I would like to have.

So I had a look at tv monitors. CRT or flat, both would be ok.
But here the problem is that Flatscreen tvs are pretty expensive. AND I don't know how good (refresh rate?) they are to play PC games.

So I thought maybe a beamer would be a nice idea.
But here again I absolutely don't know how well this things are suitable for gaming.

Is here anybody who has experience with playing shmups over a beamer?

Thanks for any advice!

Additional infos:
- I plan to only play pc games, so console compatibility is no problem
- desired screen size: sit on a sofa 3meters away with some friends and still be able to see and play good.

Jockel · Post by **Jockel** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 5:23 pm

WTF? Flatscreens are too expensive and you're considering a beamer?
That doesn't sound very logical to me.

bob · Post by **bob** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 5:29 pm

The reason why I consider buying a beamer ist becuase I pay 1500 Eruo for a good 40" flattscreen tv.
And I pay about 500- 750 Euro for a beamer which will deliver a 90" screen.

So in a size/prize battle the beamer is the winner. This sounds very logical to me.
But as I said, I don't know how good a beamer ist for playing.

If you know of a cheaper flattscreen tv I would be thankfull If you could give me a link or some info

But keep in mind that it should be big enough for the above scenarion.

Thanks!

Robert garcia · Post by **Robert garcia** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 6:43 pm

Hi Bob,

I can say a Beamer is Good for Racing games or FPS, but for real Shmups isn`t a Beamer the right thing. The Screen will be too big so the overview is gone. I tried to play Ikaruga on a Beamer, really makes no Fun when You have to turn Head to take a look from One Corner to the Other.

Best for Shmups is a nice big about 29 CRT You can buy them used very cheap

PROMETHEUS · Post by **PROMETHEUS** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 7:04 pm

actually for FPS you don't want to have too large a screen either, more so than for STGs because in FPS you often have to to check the whole screen area for information, whereas in STG you only have to scan a small area to dodge what's coming at you once you know the game really well. But it's a pain to play a STG you haven't yet memorized well on a large screen.

trivial · Post by **trivial** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 7:28 pm

My 32" tate tube is playable from the couch about 7' away, but there are good reasons to have the screen surface angled back with verts. Not practical with a 200 pound console television.

bob · Post by **bob** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 7:34 pm

Hmm, sounds reasonable.

Would you think the screen would be too big if it had about 2m in diagonal and I would sit about 3,5m away?
I thought that at this distance the area to scan would be similar to a bigscreen in front of you. Is this wrong?

Maybe the best idea would be to borrow a beamer and check it out.

jonny5 · Post by **jonny5** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 7:58 pm

get yourself a 29" sony PVM or NEC XM29 and sit arcade distance(right up to it pretty much....dont forget to lean it back like an arcade monitor) from them when you play......its perfect

or get a cab

kemical · Post by **kemical** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 10:27 pm

If you can borrow one to try, that is definitely a good thing to do, as long as it isn't a terrible one that will just turn you away from the idea completely

I use one a lot lately for shooters, I like it. I feel like more of my peripheral vision is put to use, and it absolutely immerses you for geometry wars.. FPS can be a bit disorienting at first if you are sitting too close or at an odd angle, it feels good though if your eyes sit at the same level as where the crosshair is (like if you were at a PC playing an fps), when they are relaxed.
It is personal preference though.

I think currently I've been playing vertical shooters at about 1.5 meters diagonal.. (about 60 inches), I also sit at least 1.5 meters away from the screen, at most 2.5...

I got one because I wasn't about to buy a large HDTV since I currently have no room for one, and I was tired of dealing with large CRT's, I've owned Japanese arcade machines also. Currently the only CRT I will keep is my 13" Amiga 1080.
The projector sits up on a shelf about 11 feet away from the wall/screen, it could sit closer or further...
this page helps if you have a model that you're wondering about:
http://www.projectorcentral.com/project ... ulator.cfm

the one I'm using is the Sanyo PLV-Z4 it is a few years old but I bought it used for a good price, it does 720p and has excellent adjustments to allow the projector to be placed in a variety of locations from the screen. I bought some very inexpensive black-out cloth (for curtains) and use that as a screen, however I don't have it framed as best I could (it hangs from a rod and I pin the two lower corners) so there are slight waves which suck.. a light colored wall should work just as well.

I'm going to be moving soon and so the next setup will probably have the projector down on a table so that I can easily tate it on it's side if needed, and I may just project to a wall.. definitely not a home theater setup, I just like the flexibility of projectors.

The only downside is bulb life, as bulbs need to be replaced eventually. I guess if the projector has weak lumen output or poor contrast ratio that can be bad too...(having to wait to play in a dark room..)

cools · Post by **cools** » Sun Jan 25, 2009 9:32 pm

With regards to bulb life - do the maths

I've been using my projector for 4 years now and not had to change the bulb. It's probably due, but it's fine.

I can't say I've played masses of shooters on it, but it's fine for everything I've played - although cockpit view with the helicopters in GTA gives me motion sickness (as does Super Monkey Ball).

It's mounted very high up on the bottom of a purpose built shelf, and I run a 2.5m picture (straight onto a matt white primer painted wall), and sit about 2 to 2.5m away at a very odd angle.

Recommended.

Arvandor · Post by **Arvandor** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 1:38 am

I love how everyone is listing the gihugous screen size as a disadvantage.

Can't you... You know... make it smaller at will? =P

jonny5 · Post by **jonny5** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 4:31 am

Arvandor wrote:I love how everyone is listing the gihugous screen size as a disadvantage.

Can't you... You know... make it smaller at will? =P

then what is the point of the projector?

i thought the idea was to have picture size far larger than is feasible with a CRT tv in TATE...if you make it smaller, why not just use an actual CRT?

cools · Post by **cools** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 8:51 am

Arvandor wrote:I love how everyone is listing the gihugous screen size as a disadvantage.

Can't you... You know... make it smaller at will? =P

Adjusting the size on mine means that the picture "moves" higher on the wall since it's projected top-down. Making it less comfortable to play.

Arvandor · Post by **Arvandor** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:00 am

jonny5 wrote:I thought the idea was to have picture size far larger than is feasible with a CRT tv in TATE...if you make it smaller, why not just use an actual CRT?

Smaller than gifreakinghugemongous =/= smaller than CRT.

brannon · Post by **brannon** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 12:17 pm

the lans i usually go to have a mame box and sticks hooked up to a projector, and it's pretty good; that said, the screen's not too vast, you're sitting about 5m away and it works much better when the room's dark. i can totally imagine it sucking in the wrong environment, so i'd really recommend giving it a try in the place you're gonna use it before dropping the cash for one (assuming you have the facility, of course).

D · Post by D » Mon Jan 26, 2009 12:23 pm

Good luck with displaying black values with your beamer

plasma has 100 hz. Do beamers stand out in refresh rate now?
what refresh rates are you looking for? And do the games you play on your system have a REAL steady frames per second without any dips?

doctorx0079 · Post by **doctorx0079** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 4:40 pm

Dang it, I thought you meant you were turning a BMW into an arcade cabinet. That would be awesome. D'oh!

antron · Post by **antron** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:22 pm

I thought he was taliking about playind shumps while drinking bourbon.

bob · Post by **bob** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 7:01 pm

Thanks for all the comments so far.
They encouraged me to really give it a try.
Overall it seems there are good experiences with gaming with a beamer.

Good luck with displaying black values with your beamer

I thought dlp beamers are able to display good black values?
One I have in mind has contrast value 2500 : 1. Not very much. But enough...?

Do beamers stand out in refresh rate now?

That is something I don't know. I hoped someone who used a beamer to play shmups could answer this. But from the replies so far it reads like this is not a problem.

a REAL steady frames per second

As a programmer I can say that a 100% steady framerate is (nearly) impossible. But it depends on how you define a "dip" (how much percent diffrence would be tolaratable without being counted as a dip)

what refresh rates are you looking for?

Good enough to play shmups

PC Engine Fan X! · Post by **PC Engine Fan X!** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:35 pm

An LCD projector with a refresh rate of 2ms or less is the ideal one for playing shmups on. Try to borrow one with such a 2ms or less refresh rating and see how it works out for you, bob. ^_~

ChurchOfSolipsism · Post by **ChurchOfSolipsism** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 8:10 pm

friend of mine sold me his old beamer for 40 euros. I play all MAME games on it, it's brilliant. As for the screen size: get a beamer where you can adjust the frame so it doesn't really matter if you project from above or from below; this way, you can adjust screen size until you have found the perfect size.
Btw, I was quite surprised to see that when you sit in fron tof a candy cab the screen size is quite overwhelming; on the one hand, you can clearly see the resolution of the game which makes it a lot less visually appealing, but on the other it makes dodging those really nasty bullet patterns in Mushihimesama etc. quite feasible. These games are meant to be played on really big screens, and a beamer will fit your need for a big screen size perfectly.

ResOGlas · Post by **ResOGlas** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 9:15 am

Most new (Winter 2008+) beamers don't have fast enough video processors. Look for something with an older Pixelworks DNX processor.

a simple $400 Epson business PJ will have more than enough lumens or most likely a good gaming VP.

Depending on what specs you want, you should be able to find something that meets your needs, wants, and budget. Shoot me a PM.