Shmups that haven't stood the test of time

lilmanjs · Post by **lilmanjs** » Tue Feb 24, 2009 12:17 am

so what are some shmups that back in the day were great but haven't stood the test of time. I was playing metal black the other day, fun as it is I don't think if it were put out today it would be considered a good game.

Udderdude · Post by **Udderdude** » Tue Feb 24, 2009 12:24 am

I used to be enamored with The Guardian Legend for NES. I even made a fansite for it. In hindsight, it was pretty crap. It was more like a euroshmup than anything else, you had a lifebar and it was near impossible to dodge most enemy attacks. You also had way too many weapons, most of which were useless except for maybe one part of the game. The shmup levels were mostly long, boring and repetitive as well. The overworld parts were actually more interesting. Live and learn, I guess.

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Tue Feb 24, 2009 12:36 am

I loves ya, Udderdude.

I'm somewhat tempted to say Pulstar and Blazing Star haven't really stood up to their reputation as "omg best shmupz ever."

corbie · Post by **corbie** » Tue Feb 24, 2009 1:41 am

The early Gradius games to me feel very stale in today's shooter world. I also used to be quite into Phelios on the Mega Drive, but I recently dug it out and it just doesn't have the same draw it did to me years ago.

ZOM · Post by **ZOM** » Tue Feb 24, 2009 2:14 am

Every single COMPILE developed STG (caravan modes aside);

Many moons ago I was a big fan of those, but now I think
they're just too easy and lack any incentive to play them again.

nimitz · Post by **nimitz** » Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:16 am

most console shmups...

Compile, Technosoft, Hudson

Herr Schatten · Post by **Herr Schatten** » Tue Feb 24, 2009 12:34 pm

Axelay
Gaiares

lemonade · Post by **lemonade** » Tue Feb 24, 2009 1:04 pm

Xenon 2 Megablast (amiga). The music is the only thing good about this game nowadays and even that seems a bit repetitive to me now.

sven666 · Post by **sven666** » Tue Feb 24, 2009 1:09 pm

nimitz wrote: Compile, Technosoft, Hudson

+1

jpj · Post by **jpj** » Tue Feb 24, 2009 1:13 pm

death smiles 2

Fenrir · Post by **Fenrir** » Tue Feb 24, 2009 1:14 pm

lemonade wrote:Xenon 2 Megablast (amiga). The music is the only thing good about this game nowadays and even that seems a bit repetitive to me now.

I kind of think that the graphic style AND the huge amount of sprites (spcl in the dinosaur level) is still impressive nowadays. Not to mention the incredible arsenal you have when all the weapons are maxed out (easy to see if you buy the 10-secs max at the ingame store). The enemy patterns are also still tough nowadays and kind of remind me of Gradius in the later levels.

In the amiga compartment, I guess Project X hasn't aged too well. The fractals on level 2 are way too cheesy now and the enemy waves, namely on level 3 and 4, are way too sparse and unimaginative (unlike lvl. 1 and 2). Also, the weapon system is now showing its lack of balance. Die once after the 3rd level and you can forget about progressing, unless you manage somehow to have Plasmax3 and Homing. With the bulky ship, of course. Who the hell gets the fastest one

LtC · Post by **LtC** » Tue Feb 24, 2009 1:41 pm

Fenrir wrote:
lemonade wrote:Xenon 2 Megablast (amiga). The music is the only thing good about this game nowadays and even that seems a bit repetitive to me now.
I kind of think that the graphic style AND the huge amount of sprites (spcl in the dinosaur level) is still impressive nowadays. Not to mention the incredible arsenal you have when all the weapons are maxed out (easy to see if you buy the 10-secs max at the ingame store). The enemy patterns are also still tough nowadays and kind of remind me of Gradius in the later levels.

I agree with Fenrir. Xenon 2 was the first game I ever played, I played it 15 years later and it was still as awesome as I remembered it was

jochen · Post by **jochen** » Tue Feb 24, 2009 1:47 pm

Katakis :

then I played this game the first time in 1988 ( shortly after
becoming my C 64 ) I considered it to be the greatest game
I ´ve ever saw. But ... before Katakis I only had my Atari 2600.
So - not realy much to compare ....

Today I think Katakis on the C64 is still a good game .... but

the hitbox is too big

some of the level-bosses don´t have a chance against you
then you have a satelite

Sometimes enemies disapear ... and together with the already
mentioned big hitbox you loose a live.

Maybe I still love this game because of memories from my long
gone youth ... and this game was part of that time.

Menace ( C 64 / Amiga ) :

nice graphics for its time ... but boring gameplay ( repetive ,
extra-weapons for a limeted amount of time ).
Some days ago I played this game for the first time in this
Milenium ... and I said to myself : " My god, you liked
such crap in your youth ... "

Comparing shmups from the C64 or the Amiga with japanese
shmups for the PC-Engine or the Mega-Drive/ Genesis
I can understand the little love that many "Euro-shmups"
get then being compared to japanese games.

Dragoforce · Post by **Dragoforce** » Tue Feb 24, 2009 2:02 pm

Herr Schatten wrote:Axelay

Klatrymadon · Post by **Klatrymadon** » Tue Feb 24, 2009 2:25 pm

As much as I've grown to love them, I can't see many people getting much out of the first two Darius games, these days. They're just a bit too much like hard work, and are totally capricious, too; it often feels like they can't wait to see the back of you.

Metal Black is actually one of my all-time favourite games, and I only got into it a few years ago. It's an acquired taste, but I think it holds up really well in all respects (although I do admit that its art direction is probably the biggest draw, and certainly the only really progressive element). Horses for courses. You're right in saying that it wouldn't generally be considered a good game today, but that's because gamers are all tremendously cavernous minges.

ZOM · Post by **ZOM** » Tue Feb 24, 2009 3:25 pm

Klatrymadon wrote:...but that's because gamers are all tremendously cavernous minges...

Fenrir · Post by **Fenrir** » Tue Feb 24, 2009 8:49 pm

Dragoforce wrote:
Herr Schatten wrote:Axelay

I quote too. But I already considered it a big hype monster back in the days... a pretty quirk to show your friends between a bomberman tournament and a mario kart session... and now it finally shows for what it is. Confusing and flawed.

XERO · Post by **XERO** » Tue Feb 24, 2009 8:56 pm

Space MegaForce (Super Aleste) ~ SNES/SFAMI......was a system seller for me...back in the day, along with Axelay.

Enhasa · Post by **Enhasa** » Tue Feb 24, 2009 10:05 pm

If anything, I appreciate Metal Black even more than back in the day, due to autofire in MAME. I think this game is actually a particularly poor choice for this thread, because while game mechanics and technical presentation can get dated more easily, notable aesthetics don't.

TGL looks good compared to Air Fortress and Sigma Star Saga.

In addition to the stuff already in this thread (Pulstar/Blazing Star, Gradius, etc) and the stuff I didn't care for in the first place (Axelay, Raptor, Tyrian, etc) I'll include some yet-to-be-mentioned sacred cows in roughly increasing order of outrage. Might as well get them out there if Compile, Tecnosoft, Hudson are already thrown in the fire.

Xevious
R-Type
Einhander
pre 1985 games
Raiden
old Psikyo games
Toaplan games
Radiant Silvergun
Dodonpachi

What about shmups that have stood the test of time better than expected? I think the multi-directional shooting ones have done really well: Gunsmoke, Forgotten Worlds, Smash TV, Twinkle Tale, Pocky and Rocky, etc. Could be because the arena shooter genre has undergone a revival but is full of utter crap, and these older games look good in comparison.

moozooh · Post by **moozooh** » Tue Feb 24, 2009 10:21 pm

DoDonPachi hasn't stood the test of time? Really?..

sven666 · Post by **sven666** » Tue Feb 24, 2009 10:40 pm

honestly i dont know why so many dislike axelay.. it still looks good, sounds good, the controls and gameplay are fine.

sure the game misses a couple of points here and there but it was never the end-all be-all shmup even when it was new..

null1024 · Post by **null1024** » Tue Feb 24, 2009 11:04 pm

DonPachi. It looks, sounds, and feels dated, with the only semblance of modernity in the bullet patterns.

ZOM · Post by **ZOM** » Tue Feb 24, 2009 11:09 pm

sven666 wrote:honestly i dont know why so many dislike axelay.. it still looks good, sounds good, the controls and gameplay are fine.

sure the game misses a couple of points here and there but it was never the end-all be-all shmup even when it was new..

Only thing I can't stand are the "pseudo 3D" mode 7 stages, especially the players ship movement on those; not cool.
The hori stages on the other hand are very well designed & the graphics & overall atmosphere are superb.

kernow · Post by **kernow** » Tue Feb 24, 2009 11:30 pm

Donpachi might look and sound dated but its still an awesome game no doubt. Plays amazing.

Dodonpachi? not from where I'm looking, the game looks amazing.

Udderdude · Post by **Udderdude** » Wed Feb 25, 2009 12:42 am

null1024 wrote:DonPachi. It looks, sounds, and feels dated, with the only semblance of modernity in the bullet patterns.

Uh, it's still a good shmup.

Matsunaga · Post by **Matsunaga** » Wed Feb 25, 2009 12:43 am

Dodonpachi will never feel dated. It is the high point of human existence.

Andi · Post by **Andi** » Wed Feb 25, 2009 12:45 am

Enhasa wrote:Xevious

Ban this person.

Just kidding. But, Xevious rocks and plays better than many other crusty old shooters. The point here is this: quality is everlasting. People love their spouses for 50 years, why can't people love a shmup like that?

dmzach · Post by **dmzach** » Wed Feb 25, 2009 1:15 am

axelay still owns it looks good and has cool weapons. The vertical stages are not the best, but the horizontal ones are so good

lgb · Post by **lgb** » Wed Feb 25, 2009 1:17 am

Every single shmup made before 2000, I'm sure.

MSZ · Post by **MSZ** » Wed Feb 25, 2009 1:18 am

dmzach wrote:axelay still owns it looks good and has cool weapons. The vertical stages are not the best, but the horizontal ones are so good

Especially stage 2 and 4...