Where has all the manly violent anime gone?

ZOM · Post by **ZOM** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:20 pm

undamned wrote: Also, if you haven't seen "Jin-Roh: The Wolf Brigade," it's pretty awesome if you can stay awake (long movie). The suits the soldiers wear are worth the price of admission. It's one of the few Anime that I can recall actually shouting "No way!" at the end 'cause it was such a shocker.
-ud

Masterpiece! Beautiful story, awesome suits. I think Jin-Roh is right there on my top 5 anime list.

Aru-san · Post by **Aru-san** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:22 pm

Blame this de-facto software set for the demise of your past anime affinities, and blame these guys for making it.

In short, blame convenience for lack of manliness.

ZOM · Post by **ZOM** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:27 pm

Aru-san wrote:Blame this de-facto software set for the demise of your past anime affinities, and blame these guys for making it.

Let me guess: it's RETAS!PRO...

Rupert H · Post by **Rupert H** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:33 pm

Skykid wrote: I'm really glad somebody got Wings of Honneamise a mention: it's a first class movie.

Totally agreed. I wish more anime creators would feel so free to explore the medium properly instead of ticking a check list of cliches. I love the way Einhänder completely lifted the music from Honneamise for the staff roll track, Earthlight.

Aru-san · Post by **Aru-san** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:37 pm

ZOM wrote:
Aru-san wrote:Blame this de-facto software set for the demise of your past anime affinities, and blame these guys for making it.
Let me guess: it's RETAS!PRO...

Yes. And from the looks of it, almost EVERY production company save for a very few use this program to make anime these days.

Considering that I'm only a young guy who wasn't born in the era of violent, manly anime, I'm not hesitant to say that I've never heard of almost any of the anime mentioned in this thread.

honorless · Post by **honorless** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:52 pm

About a few of the shows on your list, Never_Scurred:

Mnemnosyne was a gyp. Sure it's got gore and lesbians but the animation sucked 3/4ths of the time and they keep shoving the asinine story into your face. If you're really curious watch an ep on Megavideo or something; I wouldn't waste time with a 200MB d/l.

Kemonozume I wanted to like because it had interesting animation, but the mushy shit at the end of the ep 1 made me want to kill things. Later I read the series described as "Romeo and Juliet—only she's a monster" and decided it wasn't worth trying ep 2. YMMV.

Higurashi is largely so creepy BECAUSE the characters look so cutesy. (thread_manliness_rating--) Stick with it; it has its ups and downs but there are some truly excellent moments (love that opening scene)

Out of the stuff mentioned, avoid Death Note and Trinity Blood because you will hate them.

FIL · Post by **FIL** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 4:15 pm

Nice to see Tytania mentioned considering absolutely nobody on the entire internet seems to be talking about it.

LOGH was one of the greatest things ever, not just in anime terms but taking science fiction as a whole. We shouldn't really compare Tytania to it, as tempting as it is. I'm sure it will provide enough foppery and whim to stand out on its own.

Domino · Post by **Domino** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 4:31 pm

ZOM wrote:Maybe the aforementioned scene was a bit too much for him.

It was the nurse's head.

FIL wrote:Nice to see Tytania mentioned considering absolutely nobody on the entire internet seems to be talking about it.

LOGH was one of the greatest things ever, not just in anime terms but taking science fiction as a whole. We shouldn't really compare Tytania to it, as tempting as it is. I'm sure it will provide enough foppery and whim to stand out on its own.

Considering that Tytania is not marketed for the regular anime fan (IMO) and more for the fans of serious storytelling, space operas, and LOGH.

The truth is that I don't believe that Tytania will be license in the US.

Skykid · Post by **Skykid** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 7:42 pm

Rupert H wrote:
Skykid wrote: I'm really glad somebody got Wings of Honneamise a mention: it's a first class movie.
Totally agreed. I wish more anime creators would feel so free to explore the medium properly instead of ticking a check list of cliches. I love the way Einhänder completely lifted the music from Honneamise for the staff roll track, Earthlight.

Rupe, your knowledge of random gaming trivia is outstanding. I had no idea about that.
I only know the Golden Axe/Rambo scream thing.

Jin Roh is an amazing piece of work too, and clearly the inspiration behind Killzone's Helghast suits (well, it's pretty much a blatant rip-off actually.)

Taylor · Post by **Taylor** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 7:55 pm

croikle wrote:
Ruldra wrote:Gantz
I hear the anime version is pretty bad, but the manga is awesomely over the top. Imaginative monsters, epic fights, sweet weapons, lots of gore, ecchi, character death, etc. It's definitely worth reading.

Truth be told the anime is quite close to the manga and has the best intro music ever, but it ends really stupid.

My liking for anime had a slump, but I can still watch a lot of the stuff that comes out today - though it's certainly different and isn't the niche genre we remember. Sayonara Zetsubō Sensei and Ghost in the Shell SAC (What are you boys smokin'?) restored some of my faith and I started watching the modern stuff again. Gurren Lagann was stupid but if you have Russian Doll robots fighting on the top of a universe throwing galaxies at each other you have my attention, Soul Eater is not aimed at my age group but I like the style it has going.

None of these are violent though, the last violent one I watched was Elfen Lied (yeah). Like Higurashi this is a bunch of moeblobs killing each other and it makes it creepy and weird, and it just tries to be as taboo as possible in places, but it has its moments.

SockPuppetHyren · Post by **SockPuppetHyren** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:11 pm

Ganelon wrote:Space Runaway Ideon.

Ideon sucked.

No really, I watch the whole thing, Be Invoked included, like pieces of it(For how goofy GM God looked, I liked it a lot.The concept and story behind it was great, I just wish Tomino had done it better); but it sucked overall. This isn't even me raging, the show just doesn't hold up very well.

Honestly, I haven't been watching anime that much either. Not because of the lack of MANLY KILLING EXPLOSIONS (Cause I like both manly AND cutesy, got a problem with that?), just because most of the stuff just isn't that interesting, or that good. Gurren Lagann got me back into it for a while, and I liked alot of the older stuff I watched and read(I adored Battle Angel Alita...until Last Order), but for the most part, I'm pretty apathetic. I would like some suggestions of good shows, the last Anime I watched and liked was Turn A Gundam (Turn A itself has to be one of my favorite Gundam designs, mustache and all).

I think part of the reason people are noticing a shift is because back in the '80s and 90's, we didn't have as much access to stuff as we do now. Most of the stuff that got translated were either A) Gold or good quality or B) Hyper violent. All the School girl, harems, and cutesy has been around for ever and three days, you just notice it more because of the internet. That, and otaku culture is more out in the open.

Also, whats with all the GiTS hate? I loved SAC. What, does good anime HAVE to have blood, guts and explosions every half-minute?

Battlesmurf · Post by **Battlesmurf** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:13 pm

Never_Scurred wrote:And another thing...
What the hell is up with all the breast shots every damn 10 minutes?
I never thought I would be complaining about BREASTS in any medium, but here its neither sexy or cute. Is this what they call "fan service"?
In that case then I like fanservice like I like Nazis AND I FUCKING HATE NAZIS.
Please, if you actually like this shit, -99 to your manhood.

Well- here's the thing. I'm a grown ass man- and I like my adult videos/pictures/etc on the internet and otherwise. That being said- I like gory action packed bad-assery too. Call me weird but my brain has trouble processing both at the same time. That's my main gripe with parts of that series. Overall- that series was quite the experience, though!

So many good suggestions about good anime in the rest of the thread that I really have nothing new to add other than to cosign Gantz. Short anime- but WONDERFUL manga.

Never_Scurred · Post by **Never_Scurred** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:21 pm

Battlesmurf wrote:
Never_Scurred wrote:And another thing...
What the hell is up with all the breast shots every damn 10 minutes?
I never thought I would be complaining about BREASTS in any medium, but here its neither sexy or cute. Is this what they call "fan service"?
In that case then I like fanservice like I like Nazis AND I FUCKING HATE NAZIS.
Please, if you actually like this shit, -99 to your manhood.

Well- here's the thing. I'm a grown ass man- and I like my adult videos/pictures/etc on the internet and otherwise. That being said- I like gory action packed bad-assery too. Call me weird but my brain has trouble processing both at the same time. That's my main gripe with parts of that series. Overall- that series was quite the experience, though!

So many good suggestions about good anime in the rest of the thread that I really have nothing new to add other than to cosign Gantz. Short anime- but WONDERFUL manga.

I'm really liking Gantz thus far.
Its a bit slow moving but its got an interesting premise to it. I just wish the characters weren't second guessing themselves all the damned time. But I like this style of anime-no little girlies doing dumb cutesy shit and lots of bloodshed.

SockPuppetHyren wrote:What, does good anime HAVE to have blood, guts and explosions every half-minute?

Yes. Otherwise, i'd watch a soap opera.

Mortificator · Post by **Mortificator** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:37 pm

Mild Gantz spoilers...

The problem with the Gantz anime is that the characters only go on the first three missions from the manga, then there's a fourth one created for the anime, then it ends. The manga goes way, way further. It's like if the Dragon Ball anime ended while Goku was still a little kid... well, maybe that would have been a good thing, but you get the idea how much the story continues.

The anime has better sex scenes, though.

Never_Scurred · Post by **Never_Scurred** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:38 pm

Taylor wrote: None of these are violent though, the last violent one I watched was Elfen Lied (yeah). Like Higurashi this is a bunch of moeblobs killing each other and it makes it creepy and weird, and it just tries to be as taboo as possible in places, but it has its moments.

I just finished Elfen Lied today. It started out great, but went downhill VERY FAST. I just could not get into it like I wanted to. The pace was dead slow, too much unnecessary fanservice/cutesy shit, a hard to follow story, annoying characters (the homeless girl and the dog were the only two I liked, how about that?), the music was ass, and lets not talk about the shit ending. Jesus.
Is it a rule that OVa's have to be boring? It seems like the producers pretty much went down the checklist.
Long ass intro with terrible opening music-check
Annoying, shrieking preteen characters-check
Punk ass male character-check
Needless plot filler-check
Unnecessary recurring flashback-check
Lousy artwork-check
Fanservice-check
lame plot drug out over 6+ episodes-check
Sporadic outburst of violence-check
Lame dialogue-check
EL would have been great if they would have stuck to the core story and left out all the crap. If this was a two hour film, it would have been much better. Is there a law that states that anime needs to be 10+ episode grinds?
Gantz is more my speed. Could have been a bit faster paced though.

Ruldra · Post by **Ruldra** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:40 pm

honorless wrote:Out of the stuff mentioned, avoid Death Note because you will hate it.

Care to elaborate? I was planning to watch that one.

FIL · Post by **FIL** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:17 pm

Ideon is actually pretty good if you can get past the very slow pacing, until the sudden ending anyway. Its an all too uncommon example of solid and even character progression in a medium which so often resorts to sudden changes of heart and people making snap decisions for very obtuse reasons.

It certainly isn't the all action mecha show that its reputation might suggest, but its still a pretty solid example of good space opera.

RackGaki · Post by **RackGaki** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:44 pm

I watched a few episodes of Death Note, didn't care for it. I watched the movies, though, and I was much more satisfied with them. Save some time and watch the cliff notes version if you are interested in this at all.

Post by **Ghegs** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:50 pm

After watching six episodes of Tytania...okay, so far it doesn't feel as good as LOGH (but then, what does?), but it does feel good enough that I'll keep watching it.

The show does give me plenty of LOGH flashbacks: the battles, how the characters' names are displayed when they're introduced (and afterwards too here) and other, more minor things. The main characters aren't quite as fleshed out or interesting as Yang Wen-li or Reinhard, but of course it's only six episodes in vs. the entire huge LOGH saga so that'll hopefully change.

One thing that bugs me...what was the point of the Battle of Cerberus in the first episode? I mean, it didn't seem like the empire with Tytania was fighting a war against another government...maybe I missed it, but it seemed like there was no motive behind the attack.

FIL · Post by **FIL** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 10:46 pm

I think it was just a punitive expedition.

Aru-san · Post by **Aru-san** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 12:07 am

Never_Scurred wrote: Is it a rule that OVa's have to be boring? It seems like the producers pretty much went down the checklist.
Long ass intro with terrible opening music-check
Annoying, shrieking preteen characters-check
Punk ass male character-check
Needless plot filler-check
Unnecessary recurring flashback-check
Lousy artwork-check
Fanservice-check
lame plot drug out over 6+ episodes-check
Sporadic outburst of violence-check
Lame dialogue-check
EL would have been great if they would have stuck to the core story and left out all the crap. If this was a two hour film, it would have been much better. Is there a law that states that anime needs to be 10+ episode grinds?

The quality of OVAs can vary depending on what they intend to put on it. From what I've researched, there aren't many limitations to an OVA (an episode of an OVA could be almost an hour long whereas a TV episode has to fill up a 23 minute time period) and usually, the OVA has a bit more freedom when it comes to content (unlike TV anime, an OVA, if done correctly, can be the bloodiest/most violent episode or sub-series compared to the TV series). Also, OVAs tend to have higher production costs, looking several times better than the TV series (sometimes OVAs can have animation quality near-equivalent to that of an anime movie). I'm guessing that the Elfen Lied OVA didn't make much layway, from what I read.

Taylor · Post by **Taylor** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 3:07 am

I stayed away from Death Note because of he Naruto-levels of stupid following it, but I've had a few sane friends watch it and report that it’s actually rather good. Not exactly meeting any of the manly or violence criteria though.

Also: I liked Haruhi and I don't care what you say when this is quoted. Meganekko, witches hat, guitar solo.

TLB · Post by **TLB** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 3:18 am

I love all the mentions of Gantz and Berserk. Gantz is a bit slow, but it's sooo fuckin' good. Berserk is probably even better. Though, please note, I've only kept up to date with the manga (and I'm probably pretty behind on Berserk now...). I watched a tiny little bit of Berserk and maybe half of the Gantz anime. But shhit, they are so manly. As has been mentioned, they butchered the end of Gantz. A friend told me about it. Just retarded. But the manga...Yeahhh. I enjoyed the recent chick-monster and its subsequent humping. Hell, I enjoyed every damn thing that happened in that shit. In fact, the same goes for Berserk. Notice a pattern? Or the similarities Go play Mars Matrix?

(Gantz + Berserk = orgasm in the gaping hole in your chest)

Okay, okay, I'm really sorry for all the above retardedness, but honestly, the Gantz and Berserk manga are some of the highest quality violence in entertainment today. I hope the localizations Dark Horse is doing aren't too expensive, because I'd really like to own them.

And I also think I'm going to check out Jin-Roh, thanks for the heads up on that.

(Hint: If you know how to read, go enjoy Gantz and Berserk.)

chempop · Post by **chempop** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 8:56 am

Looks like most here are sorely missing out on most of my favorites

Gankutsuou
Ergo Proxy
Texhnolyze
Gungrave

also I highly recommend

Paranoia Agent
Otogi Zoshi
Last Exile
Kinos Journey (looks a bit kiddy, but really quite amazing)
Boogiepop Phantom
Samurai Champloo

Overall I agree though, where have the tuff and manly anime series gone? On a comical note, a friend of mine who started getting into anime was telling his girlfriend about berserk and how cool it was, she simply didn't understand why japanese cartoons were starting to become a big part of his life... sadly enough, in attempts to show her what all the fuss was about he decided to watch some berserk together and he happened to be on the last episode! Whoops... pretty sure she was traumatized for a few solid weeks.

PC Engine Fan X! · Post by **PC Engine Fan X!** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 1:39 pm

Might want to check out the second film follow up to Crusher Joe called Space Joe with the same rag-tag motley crew in for some heavy action against a female villianess and her army. As usual, the pacing and action scenes are up to par for manly anime standards. ^_~

The Five Star Stories film out on Region 1 DVD is pretty good considering that it was done in 1987 by Sunrise, the same folks who did the original Gundam anime series. The introduction of the "Knight of Gold" mecha is worth a look with it's sunlight powered gun and the ensuing chaos that it causes.

Even Megazone 1, 2, and 3 was all OVA goodness with the first one being done by Mikimoto-san of Super Dimensional Fortress Macross anime character design fame. Tatsunoko Productions hoped that it's 1983 released Super Dimensional Century Orguss anime series would be the runway hit but bombed big time and thus Macross was the big hit instead for Japan.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

Nuke · Post by **Nuke** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 2:29 pm

The 3x3 Eyes OVAs were amazing.
Why aren't they translating the rest of the manga and/or making a tv series? :/

Post by **Ghegs** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 2:55 pm

Five Star Stories is another one of my favourites and I actually own all the 26 volumes that were translated into english. The detail that has been put into to the universe is mind-boggling. It's a shame the last volumes haven't been translated...or that Nagano hasn't actually done anything with the series for quite a while.

Domino · Post by **Domino** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 3:27 pm

The problem with the Five Star Stories movie is that it's too short. It about 70 minutes and there's not enough time to cover the story. The animation is good but the story wasn't well thought out. I guess if you read the manga you'll understand what's going on.

SockPuppetHyren · Post by **SockPuppetHyren** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 3:29 pm

Nuke wrote:The 3x3 Eyes OVAs were amazing.
Why aren't they translating the rest of the manga and/or making a tv series? :/

I know there's a site with most of the manga translated. I'm not sure if you already know about it, though. I would post a link, but I don't think we're allowed to do that here.[/url]

UnscathedFlyingObject · Sat Nov 22, 2008 3:51 pm

I really like Full Metal Alchemist. It's awesome. It's supposedly shounen anime (in Japan at least) but touches on very mature stuff, a rare thing for such a popular anime. It's at times serious, dramatic, creepy and lighthearted. Watch NOW!

Edit: there's mucho blood, muscular men, monsters.