DONE: quake 2 expansion, gothic 3. next: Baldur's Gate?

[Ed Oscuro]

Everybody's favorite thread returns!

Quake 2: The Reckoning
I played through Quake 2's expansion pack The Reckoning by Xatrix. Xatrix Entertainment made some good stuff while they were around, but despite the quality work, I hate this pack's maps.

I tested out a few Quake 2 ports to get this game working. Quake 2 Evolved was great, except for a horrible bug that kills the save system and even prevents you from playing into some maps. Shame this one died; I was digging the Quake 3 codebase and some of the other features. The best port I was able to find was R1CH's. While it didn't support cutscenes (I watched a couple via Youtube just to make sure I didn't miss anything), and going to the menu doesn't pause the game (waht?!), it works. If you're having trouble with it, you need to install the OpenGL compatible version from R1CH's site. Oddly, it seems you have to stack +set commands, (which may have always been the case with Quake but I didn't realize this, and couldn't find any information on that on the web regardless, so I'm giving an example):
C:\quake2\r1q2.exe +set vid_ref r1gl +set game xatrix

Pro: The trap item is really cool. Traps can kill the shielded phalanx-wielding minibosses (dunno the name, normally they have railguns, they're slightly smaller than the Strogg Tanks) instantly. Traps also give you a good chunk of health from the destroyed enemy. The Phalanx was pretty cool as well.

Cons: Besides it still being Quake 2: There are only TWO trap items (unless one or two are hidden in the few secrets I never discovered); stupid new enemies (the laser-beam variation of the grunt is obnoxious and helpfully placed by level designers in sniping spots); decent-looking maps with semi-advanced features and scripting but crap gameplay.

Secrets are impossible in this game - many of them seem to require the player know how to use inertia jumping to get to them. Not enough shotgun and bullet ammo through the last half of the game - I guess you're supposed to use the heavier weapons more, but when you don't know what's coming it's nice to hoard those things. Map design here was packed but a bit messy, and at times there was no thought given to how the player would progress through an area and find health - for example, a large health pack (not Adrenaline, nothing fancy, just needed healing) was placed on a tall column near the edge of a walkway. You couldn't jump back up to the walkway from it, so getting it meant that you had to go through half the stage to get to where you were.

There is a surreal portion about the middle of the game where you're told some Gobbos or whatever have stolen a beacon, so you chase after them. It's much different from the usual "take care of this here" gameplay and kinda spurred me on to finish places faster than normal (probably not a good idea). I also have to say the very end of the game was pretty lame, even though it used the "must escape there r earthquake!!1" cliche.

Small side note: Installed Quake 4, got through a wee bit on General, game still crap but probably better than Quake 2.


Gothic 3
is done (30 days ingame time and 200K gold left, using t3h God cheetz, which I note made some subtleties go away, but I don't care). Never messed around with magic (aside from amnesia spells). Didn't bother liberating cities. The ending is both interesting (fallout-style "and they lived happily ever after" sequences...mine were all positive lolz) and maddening (argh, where is the new world?)

I have to amend my original post on Gothic 3 a bit; I've apparently been playing with one of the bad Dreamcatcher discs (though my failure message was different, and less serious, than those from posts seen online). Didn't see anything untoward in game other than non-animated vultures and needing to fast-forward past some stuff, and I certainly didn't want to pay to ship in the disc. On the whole, the game was better than I originally had thought, not the least because on this second playthrough everything went smoothly, and quests weren't horribly bugged up like the first time. That's strange, because for about half the playtime I was playing I was using some tweaked INI parameters (RAM related) that were giving the game serious stability problems. After reverting to a INI found on rapidshare (lolz) things were relatively fine again.

Fighting massive crowds of enemies is a draw in this game, except when you decide to start a fight with a whole town, or even with one mage / shaman that uses fireball attacks (the game pauses while the fireball starts up; I was getting a pause when using light spells as well with the old INI file). It's really bad when you decide to take on a certain big somebody in a palace - horrible. I wisened up and killed the target with my console - (nearly) everybody was happy and none the wiser.

Thank God for that console. It saved my butt so many times, and I don't mean just the god command: goto (character name), teach (perk, for example, poisoning blades which is probably still broken in-game), and some others (I didn't do a ton of cheats though; I was trying to play the game "the real way" aside from the God cheat).

All that's left is to load up an old savegame and go see Zuben to do his inane quests for the lulz.

So yeah the next Gothic looks interesting - I should say fantastic. They are shuffling the word "Gothic" far off in the title, and they took the series away from Piranha "can't code" Bytes for development (although apparently JoWood was working with them for input on the next game). Everything promised so far seems amazing, so much that you have to wonder if it really will work out this time.

Baldur's Gate?
I picked up a like-new copy of the original release at a thrift months ago. I was able to play the game a little bit via GameTap some time ago; unfortunately my sub ran out, and also unfortunately my copy isn't the full version + expansions and whatever. Hmm...a rainy day project, I suppose.

[captpain]

Quake 4 doesn't even compare to Quake 2 in quality. Honestly, I've never been more bored in an FPS than I was when I played Quake 4.

[Ed Oscuro]

Quake 4 doesn't even compare to Quake 2 in quality.

It's worth asking what you mean by "quality" - production values are notably improved throughout all of Quake 4, and that's apparent starting with the opening cinemas - Quake 2's is painful to watch. Sonic Mayhem's soundtrack gets some praise but I tired of it years ago (and it's really pretty average, after all). Of course, there is some unintentionally silly stuff in Q4 (aside from the theme); like the nonchalant response from a soldier you free (later in the game) from a pit and certain death, with nauseatingly realistic assorted gibs scrunching under his feet as an example of his likely fate. Sure he'll need counseling for that later...if he survives, anyway (he doesn't though).

It distresses me to think that John Carmack wanted to strip out all the intriguing fantasy and horror elements from Quake, and this uninspired WWII-in-space shooter game is what would've appeared in 1996 if it hadn't been for John Romero (and also deadlines).

I've never been a gigantic fan of Quake II. The collect-a-thon room-crawl gameplay gets more boring as the years wear on (I've noted above that level design can exacerbate the item placement issue far beyond anything Q4 offers up).

Of course, Quake 4 doesn't really fix the Q2 gameplay - the "go find a medic / tech to heal up" is a promising idea, but in practice it's almost as annoying as getting scientists to heal you in Half-Life. The weapons feel pretty useless, especially on higher difficulty levels. Where's the damned Super Shotgun? I imagine that they planned on releasing it with an expansion pack, in the grand DOOM style (DOOM II and also DOOM II's RoE expansion), but that never happened.

I love the way enemies burst onto the scene, attempting to flank or otherwise spook you; it's much better than Quake 2's awful AI (even this expansion pack for Quake 2 doesn't help that issue, as the new species of alien acts like mostly ineffective Quake 1 fiends that can swim), but that and the sometimes-impressive visuals alone won't carry the game.

In a nutshell:
Quake II: Carefully aggro a few enemies at a time and crawl through the level
Quake 4: Run out of health and get screwed

Multiplayer seems to be universally agreed to suck. I kinda liked deathmatch in DOOM III, but the only map I tried out in Q4 was an ugly, piss-poor CTF map

[Lordstar]

doom 3s death match is just action all the way.

[Ed Oscuro]

doom 3s death match is just action all the way.

In pretty nice-looking levels too...I like the air tubes themed one (based on the old Quake maps).

[Lordstar]

doom 3s death match is just action all the way.

In pretty nice-looking levels too...I like the air tubes themed one (based on the old Quake maps).

I used to run a net/lan cafe back in the day when this got released it was this and CS which was getting the most play at the time. I hate CS as it all comes down to killing the other team and nothing to do with the hostages. But D3 was just awesome.

[Ed Oscuro]

Ah yes, the best thing about CS is shooting the hostage in the face so you win the round more quickly

classy gameplay idea

[captpain]

Production values != quality.... One point I would make is that Quake 2's movement and shooting are much snappier and more responsive than Quake 4's. I used to play a lot of multiplayer deathmatch-type games, and I'd pick Quake 2 for a competition game way before I'd pick Quake 4.

[Ed Oscuro]

Quake 4's multiplayer got roundly knocked about by the corporate reviews on release, mainly for being based on stale concepts, not so much (if at all) for being "unresponsive." Quake 4's character movement speed is simply designed to be slower than Quake 2's, and the weapons are slower as well - overall it's a more deliberate type of game. DOOM III's multiplayer seems like it should be a somewhat fair comparison, and I know that's a pretty decent multiplayer game.

In the comparison between Quake 2 and Quake 4, the nod goes to Quake 3 Arena

Also, here production values = quality in terms of what Quake 4 is trying to be, which is epic space opera warfare shenanigans, not fast-paced 'net gaming. That brings us back to the single-player aspect, then (I hope- that was the overall thrust of this thread in the first place).

I have criticized this type of game elsewhere for being plodding and predictable exercises in room-broom gaming, but Quake 2's single-player is dated: too reliant on collecting things and backtracking and making use of the engine's quirks to one's advantage.

[captpain]

Quake 4's multiplayer got roundly knocked about by the corporate reviews on release, mainly for being based on stale concepts, not so much (if at all) for being "unresponsive." Quake 4's character movement speed is simply designed to be slower than Quake 2's, and the weapons are slower as well - overall it's a more deliberate type of game. DOOM III's multiplayer seems like it should be a somewhat fair comparison, and I know that's a pretty decent multiplayer game.

In the comparison between Quake 2 and Quake 4, the nod goes to Quake 3 Arena

Also, here production values = quality in terms of what Quake 4 is trying to be, which is epic space opera warfare shenanigans, not fast-paced 'net gaming. That brings us back to the single-player aspect, then (I hope- that was the overall thrust of this thread in the first place).

I have criticized this type of game elsewhere for being plodding and predictable exercises in room-broom gaming, but Quake 2's single-player is dated: too reliant on collecting things and backtracking and making use of the engine's quirks to one's advantage.

Alright... I've been playing those games for so long that Quake 2 is fun because of those quirks. I can fly through the game, which makes it an awful lot of fun (zooming around and blasting heads off at breakneck speed). It is definitely not "good" in the sense that you're saying, I agree.

And yeah, Quake 3 MP for sure.

[incognoscente]

Baldur's Gate?
unfortunately my copy isn't the full version + expansions and whatever.

You're not missing much if you only have the OG Baldur's Gate. Tales of the Sword Coast basically has two things going for it:

1. If you wanted to take one character from Baldur's Gate all the way through to the end of the Baldur's Gate II story, you can get an extra character level (Tales of the Sword Coast ups the level cap of the first game from 8 to a whopping 9).

2. If you want a multiple-floored Infinity Engine dungeon crawl (Durlag's Tower) and for some reason do not want to pick up Icewind Dale instead.

[Diabollokus]

I could have sworn I saw someone from this Forum with Quake 2 on their gamelist for xbox 360. I've never played Quake 2 so to get it on my 360 would be nice, quake 4 port was horrible.

[themachinist]

BG2 + TOB
win.