Terrorism works!

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Terrorism works!

Post by Stormwatch »

Random House pulls novel on Islam, fears violence
Thu Aug 7, 2008 6:39pm / By Edith Honan

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Publisher Random House has pulled a novel about the Prophet Mohammed's child bride, fearing it could "incite acts of violence."

"The Jewel of Medina," a debut novel by journalist Sherry Jones, 46, was due to be published on August 12 by Random House, a unit of Bertelsmann AG, and an eight-city publicity tour had been scheduled, Jones told Reuters on Thursday.

The novel traces the life of A'isha from her engagement to Mohammed, when she was six, until the prophet's death. Jones said that she was shocked to learn in May, that publication would be postponed indefinitely.

"I have deliberately and consciously written respectfully about Islam and Mohammed ... I envisioned that my book would be a bridge-builder," said Jones.

Random House deputy publisher Thomas Perry said in a statement the company received "cautionary advice not only that the publication of this book might be offensive to some in the Muslim community, but also that it could incite acts of violence by a small, radical segment."

"In this instance we decided, after much deliberation, to postpone publication for the safety of the author, employees of Random House, booksellers and anyone else who would be involved in distribution and sale of the novel," Perry said.

Jones, who has just completed a sequel to the novel examining her heroine's later life, is free to sell her book to other publishers, Perry said.

The decision has sparked controversy on Internet blogs and in academic circles. Some compared the controversy to previous cases where portrayals of Islam were met with violence.

Protests and riots erupted in many Muslim countries in 2006 when cartoons, one showing the Prophet Mohammed wearing a turban resembling a bomb, appeared in a Danish newspaper. At least 50 people were killed and Danish embassies attacked.

British author Salman Rushdie's 1988 book "The Satanic Verses" was met with riots across the Muslim world. Rushdie was forced into hiding for several years after Iran's then supreme religious leader, Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, proclaimed a death edict, or fatwa, against him.

Jones, who has never visited the Middle East, spent several years studying Arab history and said the novel was a synthesis of all she had learned.

"They did have a great love story," Jones said of Mohammed and A'isha, who is often referred to as Mohammed's favorite wife. "He died with his head on her breast."

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Post by CMoon »

Talking about Islam is enough to incite violence/mayhem/etc.

Hahahaha, even mentioning Islam or betraying these beliefs in a positive light is enough to incite riots!

I want to be the first to say that real or perceived touchiness of the middle-eastern countries makes them look like a bunch of emo 12 year old girls (on their period???)

Random House responds: "There's nothing right I can say to her!" *facepalm*
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Post by Super Laydock »

religious fanatics.... :roll: :(

At least Jesus didn't fuck underage children (as far as I know). :evil:

Random House should feel this in their pockets. And learn that this kinda cowardry is not tolerated by literate (as in most westerners vs a lot of Muslims in developing countries) people.

Not that I have bought any of their stuff in the last few years (I think), but this makes me want to start a boycott anyhow.
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Post by Stormwatch »

Super Laydock wrote:At least Jesus didn't fuck underage children (as far as I know). :evil:
Mohammed's friendship with Pedobear is probably the least damning thing you can say about him. The man was a MASS MURDERER.
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Post by JoshF »

splain
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Post by Super Laydock »

I find this "evidence" as convincing as the one for the existence of God. :roll:
That said, this may actually have been real. ;)
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Post by JoshF »

They're fairy tales, but they also really happened!
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Post by moozooh »

Super Laydock wrote:At least Jesus didn't fuck underage children (as far as I know).
I should probably point out that it's considered underage by your country's contemporary standards, not by theirs in their time. Check the current age of consent in Argentina, Japan, or Spain, though, it's still way lower than one would probably expect nowadays.

On the other hand, there's no saying that Mohammed actually had [penetrative] sex with her wife when she was still six. ;)
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Post by Super Laydock »

moozooh wrote:
Super Laydock wrote:At least Jesus didn't fuck underage children (as far as I know).
I should probably point out that it's considered underage by your country's contemporary standards, not by theirs in their time.
Point taken.
On the other hand, there's no saying that Mohammed actually had [penetrative] sex with her wife when she was still six. ;)
He married her while she was 6 but "consummated the marriage" when she was 9 years old. I'll leave it up to you to interpret "consummated" in this context. :roll:
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Post by Michaelm »

Ofcourse terrorism works !
Who ever said it didn't ?!?
They are full of shit and only say that for the public.
In the end terrorism is extremely effective.

One thing to notice though is, that in spite of the popular saying that human lives are priceless this is never the reason to give in to threats.
People are simply replaceable without needing any investments were money needs investments.

Random House just saw their revenues go down the drain on release of the book so they decided to pull the plug and hang up a stupid story about possible violence.
Now this violence is surely realistic but it being the reason behind the pull is not.
All errors are intentional but mistakes could have been made.
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Post by Mortificator »

Super Laydock wrote:He married her while she was 6 but "consummated the marriage" when she was 9 years old. I'll leave it up to you to interpret "consummated" in this context. :roll:
IN DA BUTT.
Michaelm wrote:Ofcourse terrorism works !
Who ever said it didn't ?!?
They are full of shit and only say that for the public.
In the end terrorism is extremely effective.
I disagree. I don't think terrorism ever works for major concessions (especially in a modern media setting) because when a group tries to change society by blowing people up it just makes them look crazy, which unites the opposition. People know that psycho killers can't be trusted and that terrorism is really just extortion. There's nothing but the terrorists' good word to stop them from keeping on killing after their demands are met. It's like regular blackmail, where after you give in the blackmailer can keep asking for more indefinitely.

Take 9/11 for example, a major act of terrorism that only succeeded in making Americans near-unanimously support killing lots of Muslims.
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Post by JoshF »

Works if you're the USA (Nicaragua,CIA,GATT,WTO,NATO,Tone Loc guuhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh etc.)
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Post by antron »

this was Bin Laden's biggest goal for 9/11:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2984547.stm
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Post by evil_ash_xero »

CMoon wrote:Talking about Islam is enough to incite violence/mayhem/etc.

Hahahaha, even mentioning Islam or betraying these beliefs in a positive light is enough to incite riots!

I want to be the first to say that real or perceived touchiness of the middle-eastern countries makes them look like a bunch of emo 12 year old girls (on their period???)

Random House responds: "There's nothing right I can say to her!" *facepalm*
Absolutely. You know, I was in a cab the other day with a guy from Pakistan, who went into a religous tirade about how the Jews ruled the world through electronics, were against the Christians and Muslims. And how Jesus was going to return to Syria and inform the Christians that they need to follow Mohammed too. Then he said "I don't want to end up in torment, and I don't want you to end up in torment, so read these", and handing me some Muslim reading material. I was about to get on a plane, and have had some problems with them checking my bags over and over so I tossed them out when I was in line, to avoid suspicion. lol
I was just like "so, you're from Pakistan huh?" and then he just went into it. Freaked me out.

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Post by Mortificator »

JoshF wrote:Works if you're the USA (Nicaragua,CIA,GATT,WTO,NATO,Tone Loc guuhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh etc.)
That's a good point, but I think of the huge nations utterly pissing on the little ones as something of a different nature entirely. In one case the instigator is vastly stronger and the violence itself achieves its goals, and in the other it's a smaller group and starting attacks (or stopping attacks) is just a bargaining chip to get concessions. One's like the government saying "gimme money or I'll punish you" and the other's like a blackmailer saying "gimme money or I'll punish you." Though maybe that isn't so different.
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Post by Lawfer »

CMoon wrote:Hahahaha, even mentioning Islam or betraying these beliefs in a positive light is enough to incite riots!
That is because they know that if they let it pass, people will start making fun of their prophet more and more, especially if they don't defend what they believe in.

Look at the christians and see how much trash there is out there making fun of Jesus, disgusting.

The muslims don't want Mohammed being made fun of because to them he is their Messiah.
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Post by Daedalus »

moozooh wrote:
Super Laydock wrote:At least Jesus didn't fuck underage children (as far as I know).
I should probably point out that it's considered underage by your country's contemporary standards, not by theirs in their time. Check the current age of consent in Argentina, Japan, or Spain, though, it's still way lower than one would probably expect nowadays.
That's no excuse. If he's some kind of prophet with a hotline to god, shouldn't he hold himself to higher standards than the average people of his era?
The muslims don't want Mohammed being made fun of because to them he is their Messiah.
Boo hoo. If they don't like their prophet being made fun of, they should have been a little more critical before following someone who made a habit of nailing nine year old children.
This is not similation. Get ready to destoroy the enemy. Target for the weak points of f**kin' machine. Do your best you have ever done.
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Post by Lawfer »

Daedalus wrote:Boo hoo. If they don't like their prophet being made fun of, they should have been a little more critical before following someone who made a habit of nailing nine year old children.
It dates back from more then a millenia, laws that we have today were not the same back then obviously.
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Post by Daedalus »

Lawfer wrote:It dates back from more then a millenia, laws that we have today were not the same back then obviously.
No, that's bullshit dude. That's like trying to argue "Slavery was okay because it wasn't illegal". Laws do not dictate morality - I can't imagine sex with an adult being in any way pleasant for a nine year old child, and anyone who abuses children like that is not a good person, much less a good prophet.
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Post by Lawfer »

Daedalus wrote:No, that's bullshit dude. That's like trying to argue "Slavery was okay because it wasn't illegal". Laws do not dictate morality - I can't imagine sex with an adult being in any way pleasant for a nine year old child, and anyone who abuses children like that is not a good person, much less a good prophet.
Slavery was okay because it wasn't illegal, it is still legal in African countries by the way. If you lived in the time of Mohammed, you wouldn't have any problem with it mainly because no laws would be against such things, it became "not okay" not long ago when the laws changed.
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Post by moozooh »

Daedalus wrote:That's no excuse. If he's some kind of prophet with a hotline to god, shouldn't he hold himself to higher standards than the average people of his era?
Haha, why should he? Can't be because you think so. :D

Say, if you're a prophet and it's standard for your country to have food four times a day. Should you cut it to only two times because you're a prophet? Does that make sense?
Daedalus wrote:If they don't like their prophet being made fun of, they should have been a little more critical before following someone who made a habit of nailing nine year old children. […] Laws do not dictate morality - I can't imagine sex with an adult being in any way pleasant for a nine year old child, and anyone who abuses children like that is not a good person, much less a good prophet.
You aren't being critical, you're just a bigot. For you, the prophet might have been a child molester and all those kinds of bullshit, but if his wife (who, of all people, "should have" suffered the most), loved and cared for him very deeply, it indicates that he might have been, in fact, a very good person worth following. Have you actually seen her opinion on the matter? No, it doesn't even seem like you're interested in it, since you have your own that overrides every other one because you're such a righteous person. I'm glad I don't know you irl.
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Post by Daedalus »

I'm a bigot because I don't like child molesters? If so, that's a bigotry I'm proud of.
but if his wife (who, of all people, "should have" suffered the most), loved and cared for him very deeply, it indicates that he might have been, in fact, a very good person worth following.
By "wife" do you mean the six year old girl he raised into servitude? Children are impressionable, my friend. But it's unethical to treat them like animals simply because they're incapable of resisting. Should Stockholm's syndrome be an ironclad defense against kidnapping charges? Hell no.


No, it doesn't even seem like you're interested in it, since you have your own that overrides every other one because you're such a righteous person. I'm glad I don't know you irl.
This really is a surprise. I never thought that, even on the internet, I would meet someone with the gall to insult me for opposing sex with children.
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Post by jpj »

this thread is like a who's-who of people ignorant about islam

the problem with the cartoon is not actually the subject matter or context - it is a holy sin to depict the prophet in any painting or drawing
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Post by moozooh »

Daedalus wrote:This really is a surprise. I never thought that, even on the internet, I would meet someone with the gall to insult me for opposing sex with children.
It doesn't matter what it is that you're opposing. I despise bigotry in any form, because it's based on discrimination and hatred of anything that's not deemed "normal" by a certain person or the society they were raised in. The likes of you crusade against cultural practices regardless of whether the followers of those practices want to change anything; you have a vision of what's right and you would like to impose it on everyone else. The extent of such behavior is of course different, but it is exactly what's been putting immeasurable amounts of unsuspecting and innocent people in religious and political conflicts since thousands of years ago. Including the most recent wars, mind you.

What you're so staunchly opposing worked for them, and it was fine by them. Otherwise the situation would have changed much earlier. It's their life, and no-one is in a position to tell them what the should or shouldn't do. Let it go.

Oh, and you're mistaken, I've never insulted you.

Edit: typo.
Last edited by moozooh on Thu Aug 14, 2008 1:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by antron »

I think back then puberty meant adulthood.

Mother nature did intended for girls to have sex at 13 (or younger). We can't really fault people for giving into natural instincts back then. Our current notion of adulthood is a social one.

A think a bigger issue is surrounding a city and forcing it to adopt your religion. If that's how you started, that's how you should end.
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Post by CMoon »

Daedalus wrote:No, that's bullshit dude. That's like trying to argue "Slavery was okay because it wasn't illegal". Laws do not dictate morality - I can't imagine sex with an adult being in any way pleasant for a nine year old child, and anyone who abuses children like that is not a good person, much less a good prophet.

1st--the comment about slavery: Don't be naive. Slavery still exists today. 'Employing' people for minimum wage (or less if they are illegals) and giving them nothing beyond that/asking them to apply for welfare to get government insurance. Ha! Maybe a lot of slaves were treated better than this (obviously some were treated a lot worse--Frederick Douglas says the deeply religious slave masters were the worst!)

Anyway, not to be an ass on the slavery front, but I'm cynical. I don't think slavery went away because of moral reasons (again, I'm not sure it really went away, but I'll let that go for now), but was phased out because of the timing. Is it just a coincidence that slavery ends in the era of the industrial revolution? Is it just possible that a machine which doesn't have to be housed or fed, might been a realistic alternative to slavery--especially when the idea was becoming unpopular? Look at what's going on today: we've heard about global warming for a long time, but you gotta hit people where it hurts to make them change--their wallets!

I am not 100% convinced that the US dumped slavery because of moral reasons (though clearly they had become part of the equation). It is especially hard to believe that we are so ethically above slavery when we have no problem busing illegals up to the Midwest to do agricultural work for pennies (oh, it isn't slavery if they are happy to work for less money than you need to eat.)

2nd-- 9 year olds, dude.

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jpj wrote:this thread is like a who's-who of people ignorant about islam
Yup, pretty much. And the terrorists have done a good job to ensure that rift continues. Instead of seeing the wealth of their traditions/cultures (or even wanting to know about them), we just see a bunch of crazy people suicide bombing. Good job!
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Post by JoshF »

Slavery developed into wage slavery. Even back as far as the Roman era they found it was more "cost-effective" to give slaves marginal wages to pay for their own housing and food (guess who supplied it,) plus that small amount came with the perk of a disproportionate decrease in the possibility of a revolt.
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Post by CMoon »

The romans probably invented Walmart.
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Post by BulletMagnet »

CMoon wrote:The romans probably invented Walmart.
QFT - not sure how anyone with a marginally functioning mind could buy their excuse for paying such low wages ("but we also keep our prices low, so they can afford to buy stuff from us"), since it basically boils down to forcing them to funnel a large chunk of their meager paychecks right back to their employer, since they can't afford to spend it anyplace else. Corporate creativity at its finest.
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