Doom 4....

[The Coop]

I enjoyed Doom 3 a lot. While it didn't compare to Ultimate Doom (it's father basically) in terms of sheer demon numbers, it was dripping with atmosphere, and still managed to give you some good fire fights. The darkness in the game, the arguably most complained about aspect, was a great selling factor for me. You're inside, the lights are fubared, and there are virtually no windows. It was dark... damn dark in spots... and it helped build the tension as you played. It was nice to see a world where there wasn't ambient light coming from seemingly everywhere, so that even the dark areas were somehow lit up. It was just the blackness, and whatever was waiting for you in it. Also, the whole flashlight setup made you deal with the darkness whether you wanted to or not. Instead of simply being able to put light wherever you wanted, whenever you wanted, you had to choose... light, or firepower. That was nice touch to me.


Anyway, if Doom 4 is going to be a retelling of Doom II, I hope they keep that love of the dark, while pumping up the demon count. They certainly had the suspense and atmosphere down in Doom 3. Now we just need more shit shooting at our intrepid Space Marine.

[Ed Oscuro]

I actually didn't mind the dark all that much, but the obsession over shiny and rust (two things that don't go together at all) along with ridiculous monster designs and improbable, out-of-place curves helped take the atmosphere down more than a few notches.

But hey, they've even started making Quake this way - lol @ torso machines on walls. YES THAT IS MAKING SENSE

[ST Dragon]

Ha Ha Ha!
Priceless!


Actually I thought the whole dark-sinister theme in Doom3 was one of the coolest aspects of the game and the fact that you had to switch between the flashlight & weapons, sure raised the thrill and the tension level a lot! More than most other FPS out there!
Also if you think about it, it makes total sense for it being so dark, since the Mars base was supposed to be under-funded, heavily under-powered and had taken a great beating from the Demon attacks.
Even though it was linear, thankfully it was not as much as a lot of other FPS and had some secret areas to discover as well as some multiple paths to choose.

My only wish for Doom4 is for it to have larger fire-fights, more demons, some non-liner levels with multiple paths and interesting secrets like the classic Doom series.

[PROMETHEUS]

Even though it was linear, thankfully it was not as much as a lot of other FPS and had some secret areas to discover as well as some multiple paths to choose.

I like a game to be linear... linear means what you go through is maximum polished. You lose the possibility of choosing where to go, but in some games it is much better to sacrifice that possibility of choice for more design / events polish. A game like GTA 4 or Oblivion isn't so linear but the gameplay experience it provides throughout is way poorer than a linear game like Doom 3 / HL². But these kind of games benefit from non linearity (for role playing possibilities). Although I'm pretty sure both games would have been much better if made linear, as their role playing elements aren't quite so developped, I think.

[moozooh]

Thankfully, HL2 isn't as linear (even though it was designed so). You can skip many puzzles and whole areas if you're smart/skilled enough. Most of them don't require scripts or other assistance.

[ST Dragon]

Even though it was linear, thankfully it was not as much as a lot of other FPS and had some secret areas to discover as well as some multiple paths to choose.

I like a game to be linear... linear means what you go through is maximum polished. You lose the possibility of choosing where to go, but in some games it is much better to sacrifice that possibility of choice for more design / events polish. A game like GTA 4 or Oblivion isn't so linear but the gameplay experience it provides throughout is way poorer than a linear game like Doom 3 / HL². But these kind of games benefit from non linearity (for role playing possibilities). Although I'm pretty sure both games would have been much better if made linear, as their role playing elements aren't quite so developped, I think.

Linearity in a FPS doesn't necessarily mean a maximum polished end result...
There are quite a few non-linear FPS with excellent game play and maximum polished levels & events (For their time at least…)

Aliens Vs Predator II (PC)
Alien Breed 3D I (AMIGA)
Dark Forces – Starwars (PC)
Descent (PC)
Doom (PC)
Doom II (PC)
Duke Nukem 3D (PC)
Heretic (PC)
Hexen (PC)
Hexen - Death Kings of The Dark Citadel (PC)
Hexen II (PC)
Hexen II - Portal of Praevus (PC)
Unreal (PC)

I hope Doom 4 will borrow some elements from the above!

[moozooh]

Many of the early FPS were like that, actually. For instance, Quake allowed a lot of freedom with its engine: it was up to the player to follow the intended routes or circumvent them to their heart's content. Either was fine.

Out of the more modern games, I've always liked Return to Castle Wolfenstein for some reason. It had interesting plot, interesting map design, interesting gameplay that ranged from Serious Sam-like arena shoot-up to stealth missions. Allowed just enough freedom in how you take on your objectives, too. Somewhat underappreciated game, imo.

[Shatterhand]

Even though it was linear, thankfully it was not as much as a lot of other FPS and had some secret areas to discover as well as some multiple paths to choose.

I like a game to be linear... linear means what you go through is maximum polished. You lose the possibility of choosing where to go, but in some games it is much better to sacrifice that possibility of choice for more design / events polish. A game like GTA 4 or Oblivion isn't so linear but the gameplay experience it provides throughout is way poorer than a linear game like Doom 3 / HL². But these kind of games benefit from non linearity (for role playing possibilities). Although I'm pretty sure both games would have been much better if made linear, as their role playing elements aren't quite so developped, I think.

Linearity in a FPS doesn't necessarily mean a maximum polished end result...
There are quite a few non-linear FPS with excellent game play and maximum polished levels & events (For their time at least…)

Aliens Vs Predator II (PC)
Alien Breed 3D I (AMIGA)
Dark Forces – Starwars (PC)
Descent (PC)
Doom (PC)
Doom II (PC)
Duke Nukem 3D (PC)
Heretic (PC)
Hexen (PC)
Hexen - Death Kings of The Dark Citadel (PC)
Hexen II (PC)
Hexen II - Portal of Praevus (PC)
Unreal (PC)

I hope Doom 4 will borrow some elements from the above!

I should play Alien Breed 3D someday, Amiga emulation is pretty good by now, I have no more excuses. I only hear praises about it.

And I still rate Duke Nukem 3D as my favourite ever FPS. I love Call of Duty games, as I love the Timesplitters series on the PS2, but DN3D is still unbeatable on terms of weapon coolness, level design and deathmatch fun.

[nekich]

So i see people keep forgetting "Strife" and "Blood" eh?

[moozooh]

Also, Shadow Warrior. ;)

[Shatterhand]

Shadow Warrior is like Duke Nukem 3D 1.5, thus is also wonderful. Shame many people didn't play it, it's an excellent single player experience. The last boss was very cool also. Also, it seems there's some optimizing of the build engine, as the graphics are way better, and the game feels smoother than Duke Nukem 3D.

Blood was kinda good too, but I didn't enjoy it that much. Strife was interesting for the concept, but I didn't like it too much.


Yeah, I've made my homework when it comes to DOS FPSes

[Lordstar]

Also, Shadow Warrior.

I recall it was edited in some countries so you threw darts instead of ninja stars apparently? I played the demo (with ninja stars) I liked it but i never saw it in the shops to buy it

[Mortificator]

I didn't like Strife either. Heretic was good, even though it's not much more than Doom with guns and demons replaced by magic and monsters (and flying!). Hexen wasn't as much fun and felt more like a first-person Gauntlet, but that game's graphical style was amazing.

I think System Shock 1 & 2 are my favorite non-linear pseudo-RPG FPSs.

[ST Dragon]

"Doom 4 will be 30HZ game"
http://www.maximumpc.com/article/featur ... s_and_more

"Carmack confirmed that it'll run at 30Hz and run with several times the graphics power as Rage, a 60Hz game."

So it will not be as smooth as Doom3 or other FPS?
The frame rate will be limited to 30FPS?
I'm a bit confused... there is not enough info on this...

"Doom 4 Wish List"
http://www.ugo.com/ugo/html/gallery/def ... age=0&id=2

Also, I wonder when we'll start seeing the 1st raw screen shots of Doom 4 ?

[Ed Oscuro]

Looks cool, actually; guess I'll be upgrading the year after this though (assuming it comes out anything like on time - remember how long D3 took? LOOONG.)

[The Coop]

Looks cool, actually; guess I'll be upgrading the year after this though (assuming it comes out anything like on time - remember how long D3 took? LOOONG.)

That was because they had to build the engine from scratch, and then make the game. For Doom 4, the engine is already there (id Tech 5), so they 'only' need to make the game.

[nekich]

Shadow Warrior's first chapter is the best imo. All others are a bit on a boring side.

As for Doom4....i hope they'll give me my double-barrelled shotgun - don't want to wait for another expansion. Oh, and more classic Cacodemons would be nice too.

[kengou]

"Doom 4 will be 30HZ game"
http://www.maximumpc.com/article/featur ... s_and_more

"Carmack confirmed that it'll run at 30Hz and run with several times the graphics power as Rage, a 60Hz game."

So it will not be as smooth as Doom3 or other FPS?
The frame rate will be limited to 30FPS?
I'm a bit confused... there is not enough info on this...

"Doom 4 Wish List"
http://www.ugo.com/ugo/html/gallery/def ... age=0&id=2

Also, I wonder when we'll start seeing the 1st raw screen shots of Doom 4 ?

30hz != 30FPS

A game can run at 30hz and be any framerate it wants.

I believe Quake 3 runs at 30hz.

It refers to something like processor ticks

[moozooh]

I'm very unsure it has something to do with the CPU ticks (vastly different order of magnitude there). It has to be related to game display, otherwise it shouldn't be really relevant.

[ST Dragon]

"Doom 4 will be 30HZ game"
http://www.maximumpc.com/article/featur ... s_and_more

"Carmack confirmed that it'll run at 30Hz and run with several times the graphics power as Rage, a 60Hz game."

So it will not be as smooth as Doom3 or other FPS?
The frame rate will be limited to 30FPS?
I'm a bit confused... there is not enough info on this...

"Doom 4 Wish List"
http://www.ugo.com/ugo/html/gallery/def ... age=0&id=2

Also, I wonder when we'll start seeing the 1st raw screen shots of Doom 4 ?

30hz != 30FPS

A game can run at 30hz and be any framerate it wants.

I believe Quake 3 runs at 30hz.

It refers to something like processor ticks

It is still not clear what 30Hz is referred to in Doom4...?

30hz != 30FPS

You mean != 30hz "different to" 30FPS ?

[lgb]

Doesn't "hz" relate to monitor refresh rate?

[Ed Oscuro]

Usually. Windows uses Hz for displaying how many "cycles" the screen updates each second, aka the refresh rate ("cycles" makes a bit more sense when you consider how CRTs work). Most LCD monitors use Hz in their menus as well to display the refresh rate.

KHz we all know generally is used in a different, but still monitor-related, context.

[The Coop]

Doesn't "hz" relate to monitor refresh rate?

I hope not. The flickering of 60hz on a monitor gives me a headache after a while. 30hz would be like watching a strobe light

[Ed Oscuro]

If they're going to make the game refresh at 30Hz (which I think is very likely - many current and previous gen console games do, I've heard), it'll still output at 60Hz on consoles (maybe 50Hz for those few people in PAL territory who don't have an updated setup or some other weirdness that constrains them to the older refresh rate). Same for LCDs (mind that LCDs don't suffer from strobe, just tearing (which is not actually a monitor issue, but a graphics adapter issue).

30 frames per second gets roughly doubled (assuming there's no tearing) for 60 Hz.

Prediction: Easiest and slowest-paced DOOM yet. Also, the player isn't likely to have any melee weapons that swing all the way across the screen (ala Gordon Freeman's crowbar).

[moozooh]

If it's anything like 30 FPS games of the past, it just means every frame will be shown twice at 60 Hz display refresh rate. FYI, Super Mario 64 is a 30 FPS game, N64 Zeldas are 20, and SNES Starfox is 20 or lower. None of them flicker, as you remember.

Oh, and Diablo 2 is also 30 FPS or even less, can't remember by now.

[Ed Oscuro]

Damnit, caught a typo in my last post. 30 Hz just means that the quality of the animation is poorer (halved), but the quality of the image onscreen isn't any less because, as moozooh said, it's being shown twice (hopefully).

[ST Dragon]

From the Doom4 Wish-list...
Off-topic, but which Half Life 2 episode is this pic from? I don't remember this scene?

[nekich]

Episode 2. A standoff against striders and hunters at the silo.
And whoever took that screenshot - (s)he ain't getting the "neighbourhood" achievement.

[ST Dragon]

Is that the last level?
I've reached the inside of the missile silo (Up to the point where the combine begin to attack from the inside) but didn't bother to complete it.
I didn't notice this hut on the out side though…

I guess I’ll have to get back to it
Episode 2 was immensely superior to Episode 1, I can’t wait for EP3!

[kengou]

Is that the last level?
I've reached the inside of the missile silo (Up to the point where the combine begin to attack from the inside) but didn't bother to complete it.
I didn't notice this hut on the out side though…

I guess I’ll have to get back to it
Episode 2 was immensely superior to Episode 1, I can’t wait for EP3!

Man you missed the best part of the game! Go finish it!