Doom 4....

[Nuke]

Stop talking about classic Doom in past tense. It's still alive.

He/we are using past tense to indicate Doom/Doom 2 came earlier, not because we think they're "dead", so I think it's usage is acceptable in this case.

[lgb]

I try to never use past tense. Does that make me a bad person?

[P_HAT]

Only for those bastards who can read russian.

Как же меня достали люди, которые ноют "омг, игра говно, дайтме мне в зад 2-х кнопочную аркаду, что бы как раньше, 2 пикселя, три спрайта!"
Писец, Д3 был глотком свежего воздуха, если бы это бы просто ещё одно продолжение Дуум 2, это был бы моветон, особенно посте СС и Пейнкиллера.
Может хватит уже, ныть и нести бред? Если вы не можете угнаться за скоростью развития игр, и не любите перемены, то это ваша проблема, ваш недостаток, ваша кара небесная.

Ребята, а вам не кажется, что если вам не нравится хорошая игра, то проблема в вас?
Игру делали не для стагнирующих пердунов.
Д3 просто идеальная игра, для выбранного сеттинга и идеи. Идеальная. Все проблемы которые есть, исключительно технического уровня и не ебут. Не забывайте, что на дворе был 2004-й год.

З.Ы. Не имею не малейшего представления как это на английский перевести, что бы хоть что-то понятно было.
З.Ы.2 Не люблю ХЛ2 и считаю его провалом. Примерно как 1/10 оригинала.

[Ruldra]

How do I get people who noyut "omg, the game shit, I daytme ago 2 - x button arcade that would be as before 2 pixel, three sprayta!"
Scribe, D3 was gulp of fresh air, if it would simply be another continued Duum 2, it would be moveton, especially gradually SS and Peynkillera.
Maybe enough already, and bear nyt delirium? If you can not keep up with speed development of games, and do not like change, it is your problem, your weakness, your Heavenly punishment.

Guys, but you do not think that if you do not like a good game, the problem with you?
Game did not stagniruyuschih perdunov.
D3 simply perfect game for the chosen settinga and ideas. Ideal. All the problems that exist solely technical level and not fuck. Do not forget that the yard was 2004 - the year.

Z.Y. Do not have no idea how to translate it into English, although that would be something that was understandable.
Z.Y.2 I do not like HL2 and I think its a failure. Approximately as 1 / 10 the original.

lol Google translator

Game did not stagniruyuschih perdunov.

I agree completely.

[PROMETHEUS]

I think the reason why some of you guys dislike Doom 3 is because, like Nuke pointed out, you like gameplay for the fun factor of it first. Doom 3 is very focused around art and has simple gameplay, granted. All of it is about feeling something special. You're supposed to play it in the dark with a good sound system and feel like no movie or game has made you feel before, and for me it worked REALLY well.

You mean "1-2 obvious ways", right? Because that's how many and how different they are. And neither are the least bit original.

I've seen stuff appear and leap out at me from behind back in Serious Sam, and I considered it more annoying than scary there, so why would I treat it otherwise in Doom 3?

So yeah, the game uses the same kind of monster spawning multiple times throughout the game, and gameplay-wise it sounds repetitive and simple. But in terms of how it makes the game feel, for me it helped keeping myself pressured in a special way all along the game, never feeling safe in a room that I cleared or secured. What I meant by "many awesome and different ways" is how the environments and scripts create different feelings all the time. You get the adrenaline rush of panic when things begin to go bad in the beginning, you get creeped out by slow zombies in narrow corridors, you feel weak when big overpowered demons appear before you, horrified when submerged by a large number of weird spiders, intrigued by technology, fascinated by the absurdities of hell, kept shivering by mourning whispers or cries... The game just made me feel many different things through many different environments and settings. That wouldn't have been possible without scripts, and I really love the game for providing a very intense and rich experience that couldn't have been nearly as good without being linear. This game is just a major art piece for me and I consider it one of the best solo games I have ever played.

Yes, it adds the feeling of frustration to the game, and does so really GREAT.

The reason I like the flashlight idea so much is the same. I just love how you're forced to feel weak when you want to see what's hidden in the dark because you can't shoot at the same time, and how you panic when you switch to a weapon because you cannot see what you want to shoot anymore. It scares you in an awesome way. I really think this idea is very very cool.

How many times have you played through Doom 3? How many people you know have played through it more than twice?

I have played through it only once, waiting to get a new computer to play it again with more details. I'm quite sure I'll play through it again some more times through my life, just like I love to watch my favorite movies again. This really is more art than shooting fun to me, so no wonders why I'm not interested in playing it over and over and over just for the fun of it.

[nekich]

The reason I like the flashlight idea so much is the same. I just love how you're forced to feel weak when you want to see what's hidden in the dark because you can't shoot at the same time, and how you panic when you switch to a weapon because you cannot see what you want to shoot anymore. It scares you in an awesome way. I really think this idea is very very cool.

Reminds of the part where you have to get through that pitch black room with glowing Imp containers that were the only source of light besides the flashlight. Oh, the sweet claustrophobia...

[Nuke]

I can rant in a foreign language too!!!

Hmmm... Hvað ætti ég að skrifa? Ég veit! Eitthvað niðrandi um net-félaga mína á tungumaáli sem þeyr ekki skilja. Það mun sína þeim hvar Davíð keypti ölið!
Hmm, ég er líka svangur. Hvað ætti ég að fá mér? Hamborgara? Nah, ég er búinn að borða svo mikið af þeim upp á síðkastið og svo er ég að forðast það að borða brauð upp á megrunina sem ég er í...
Hvað með eitthvern örbylgjurétt? Nah, of mikið af rotvarnarefnum. Kjúkkling? Nei ég fékk mér kjúkkling í gær... Ekki í stuði fyrir fisk.
Ættli ég endi ekki bara á því að fá mér súrmjólk með morgunkorni út á, enda er fernan að renna á seinasta söludag inni í ískáp.

[nekich]

I can attempt a japanese rant.


On second thought, i'd rather not.

[Lordstar]

when i played doom three for the first time i played it in the dark with headphones on. My sisters friend crept in to my room and yelld HI MATT from behind me. I have never actualy shat myself but that was pretty close. I was in the room when all the lights go off and theres monster creeping around.

[kengou]

PROMETHEUS: Yes, you're exactly right. I judge a game by gameplay alone. Atmosphere is good sometimes, and scares are fun too (I loved FEAR), but the game has to have good gameplay for me to enjoy it. Doom 3 did not have that to any great capacity.

You seem to like atmosphere and feeling more than gameplay. That's cool, but I'm not like that, and I'm willing to bet most people on these boards aren't like that, considering we all enjoy playing 2D arcade games that epitomize gameplay-over-graphics/atmosphere. Maybe that's just an over-generalization, though.

[P_HAT]

I think what D3 gameplay are not worse than D2.
You just need - run'n'gun. press the button. run'n'gun.
Awesome. This is all what i need from doom sequel.


P.S. +use flashlight +use flashlight +use flashlight +use flashlight +use flashlight.

[moozooh]

Took the liberty to translate one particular point of P_HAT's anti-rant rant directed at me.

P.S. #2 I don't like HL2 and consider it a failure. It's like 1/10 of the original game.

So, why is it that you so adamantly defend Doom 3 and ignore completely valid criticism about it, then?

Note that I don't expect you to tell why do you not like HL2, because I accept your opinion and can rather easily estimate what is there in HL2 not to like. Which is to say, you won't see me saying HL2 is ideal, but neither is Doom 3, and this is something you completely fail to see, making your "arguments" very one-sided.

Your way of handling this discussion has so far been "This is my opinion, agree with it, or stfu, jerks". You make no attempt to actually participate in the argument in a mature way, and thus your points aren't taken seriously (although they likely wouldn't be, anyway, since they're mostly based on exaggerations and subtle insults towards people with a mindset different from yours).

[nekich]

Allow me to post my take on the earlier comparsion list. Not that i disagree, as moozooh has some valid points (and even though i liked Doom 3, it is neither an ideal sequel nor an ideal game by itself, i agree), but my POV is a tad bit different.

Needless to say, i agree with everything he said about Doom 1-2, aside from the level design part, as i, even today, consider it to be one of the best, both aesthetics- (like E3M2) and gameplay-wise (E4M2 anyone? or E3M9?).

So anyways, D3. A remake of D1 with a more logical and (somewhat) realistic setting. And from that...

• wandering in tight, severely restricted pathways fighting 1-2 enemies at a time;

I don't think you can expect a research base surrounded by zero-friendly environment in the arse-end of Solar System (so to speak) to have stadium-sized rooms. I'm not sure whether the "tight-corridor" gameplay is the result of the designers' decision or vice-versa, but it fits this whole "mars base" setting.

• absolute linearity and scriptedness of every event in every stage (you like rail shooters?);

That was always the trend of shooters from iD and i suppose all companies of that time - linearity. A classic linearity without fancy tactical options or sandbox gameplay. And scripts only add that extra cinematic bit. Really, all the modern in-game scripts that cause so much "omg-i-have-no-control-over-what-happens" hassle, are just an evolution of the good ol' triggers, when you pass a certain point and mass of monsters spawns to ass-rape you. As i see it, D3 preserved its simple gameplay formula, and did so very nicely.

• bad-to-nonexistent visibility (apparently, the shadow casting engine was so good there nothing but shadows cast by everything onto everything);

Well, 50/50. On one side - the setting. The base should probably conserve as much electricity as possible (and indeed some scientists complain about Delta Labs "eating" all of the base's power). And on the other side - i have to admit, this is the case when the game acts like a huge engine showcase. Not that i really mind.

• slow and clunky;

Yes. The protagonist does feel like he's wearing too much crotch-armor (i personally hate the "limited sprint" shit - i want to Always Run, please). Unless you mean the hardware performance...

• everything looks like it's made of plastic (including the enemies), except the metal surfaces with insane amount of specular light added onto them.

Depends. The whole place is made of metal. But it is really a game engine vs perception issue. Earlier game had no feeling of material whatsoever (but then again, back in the day your imagination probably worked better than any bump/parrallax/HDR/whatever).

[Twiddle]

I think the reason why some of you guys dislike Doom 3 is because, like Nuke pointed out, you like gameplay for the fun factor of it first. Doom 3 is very focused around art and has simple gameplay, granted. All of it is about feeling something special. You're supposed to play it in the dark with a good sound system and feel like no movie or game has made you feel before, and for me it worked REALLY well.

Yes I play games to watch movies

[Twiddle]

also at least HL2 can be turned into a good game

[PROMETHEUS]

PROMETHEUS: Yes, you're exactly right. I judge a game by gameplay alone. Atmosphere is good sometimes, and scares are fun too (I loved FEAR), but the game has to have good gameplay for me to enjoy it. Doom 3 did not have that to any great capacity.

You seem to like atmosphere and feeling more than gameplay. That's cool, but I'm not like that, and I'm willing to bet most people on these boards aren't like that, considering we all enjoy playing 2D arcade games that epitomize gameplay-over-graphics/atmosphere. Maybe that's just an over-generalization, though.

For me it depends which game I'm playing. A game can be interesting only for it's atmosphere. Or just for easy fun with friends like Mario Kart. Or for deeper fun with skilled gameplay like some STGs and other competitive games. A game can possess a combination of those, and for Doom 3 it's definitely atmosphere first and just a slight bit of skill, as far as the single player goes.

Yes I play games to watch movies

Maybe you just fail to understand the artistic value a game can bring to the table compared to a movie.

P.S. #2 I don't like HL2 and consider it a failure. It's like 1/10 of the original game.

Well, I really like Half Life 2 almost as much as doom 3. Incredible game for me, feels really good cool gameplay and everything :p

[JoshF]

Maybe you just fail to understand the artistic value a game can bring to the table compared to a movie.

Sewer Shark

[FatCobra]

Doom 3 was okay, it was scary at some points. The only annoying thing is having to switch between the flashlight and whatever weapon you had equipped. That, and it was too fucking dark. You could install a mod that fixed the flashlight switching problem, at least.

[Stormwatch]

Here's hoping they don't forget the duct tape this time!

[CStarFlare]

Didn't bother to play much of Doom 3 (mostly due to the fact that I played Doom 3 first and was not much of a FPS gamer at the time), but having better presentation than gameplay does not always spell disaster. Silent Hill 1 and 2 are glorious examples of this. Granted, a good score in both categories is ideal, but one can make up for the other if you're willing to let it.

That said, fuck Doom 4 give me Doom 2/64 on XBLA.

[Ed Oscuro]

That said, fuck Doom 4 give me Doom 2/64 on XBLA.

I like DOOM 1's levels more than most of D2's, at least in terms of aesthetics (and then DOOM 64 over both of them, very nearly). Lack of super shotty hurts so bad though.

Also, Silent Hill 4 (the one I played through, although I played a wee bit of SH2 on PC) would have been so much better if it didn't piss away so much of its potential with shitty combat and horrible "nightmarish" architecture (OH LOOK I AM IN A TOWER. DOUBLE HEADED BABY MUTANT. BEFORE I WUZ IN A STAIRWAY WITH CAGES ALONG THE SIDES)

And DOOM III certainly gives me a "special feeling" when it throws some almost decent movie-style nonsense, to wit: the awakening of the lost souls, march of the upside down baby head spiders, or dr. butrugger's wild ride end sequence, or i'm stuck in place and she's telling me they stole teh baby.

The appearance of the berserker pack is a nice micro-version of what the whole game is about. You fall into a pit, can't do shit, you go blind and then you're killing things. Then it ends and back to the darkness with you bobby

[320x240]

I guess Doom3 is just a EuroFPS.

[ST Dragon]

Doom 3 was okay, it was scary at some points. The only annoying thing is having to switch between the flashlight and whatever weapon you had equipped. That, and it was too fucking dark. You could install a mod that fixed the flashlight switching problem, at least.

@FatCobra

Off-topic...
That's a very cool avatar you got there FatCobra!
What game/anime is it from?

[moozooh]

It's from Jets'n'Guns.

[ST Dragon]

Thanks that looks cool!
I've played Jets' N' Guns but never noticed this specific wallpaper...
The game was not that great how ever..

Do you have a full screen wallpaper of this specific avatar?

Thanks in advance.

[FatCobra]

Thanks that looks cool!
I've played Jets' N' Guns but never noticed this specific wallpaper...
The game was not that great how ever..

Do you have a full screen wallpaper of this specific avatar?

Thanks in advance.

I thought Jets N Guns was a good game, it just suffers from the same problems Tyrian had, is that once you get the more powerful weapons, you can just sit there and hold down the fire button.

You wanted wallpaper size image of my avatar? Go here:
http://jng.rakeingrass.com/

[ST Dragon]

Thanks!

[FatCobra]

Thanks!

You're welcome.

[CStarFlare]

Also, Silent Hill 4 (the one I played through, although I played a wee bit of SH2 on PC) would have been so much better if it didn't piss away so much of its potential with shitty combat and horrible "nightmarish" architecture (OH LOOK I AM IN A TOWER. DOUBLE HEADED BABY MUTANT. BEFORE I WUZ IN A STAIRWAY WITH CAGES ALONG THE SIDES)

Hence why I mentioned out 1 and 2 specifically. 3 was the most well-rounded of the series, and 4 was pretty medicore.

I'm going to stop there because to be honest talking about what's wrong with Silent Hill 4 is one of my favorite things to do and this is neither the time nor the place

[Stormwatch]