Lynch's Dune

[KindGrind]

Just watched it. I thought I had never seen it, but some scenes were vaguely familiar. I must have seen it on TV when I was a kid...

Considering the amount of info he had to cram in a 2 1/4 hours movie, I think Lynch did a very good job. Sure it's not entirely like the book, how could it be? I don't like that the Baron was made a kind of pustulent degenerate and I feel some of the CGI suffers after close to 25 years, but the acting was generally excellent, music was great and the overall mood of the movie worked quite well. Surprisingly poetic... I know I might be going against the grain liking it, but there, I've said it.

It's not one of my favourites or anything, but I thought I'd share my views of the thing since I've heard the words horrible, shitty, appalling and others when people related to the movie...

Curious, what do you guys think of it?

[Never_Scurred]

Which cut did you see? The one with that long ass intro at the beginning or the one with the paintings explaining the story at the beginning?
Some of the things I remember was that sick looking floating fat man and that...thing...in the glass container. My favorite scenes were with Patrick Stewart and that other dude were battling while riding the sandworms. That shit was epic, man. Plus it had some cool ass weapons like that snot gun that you have to put up your nose to shoot. I need to cop that movie on dvd cause I haven't seen it since like sixth grade or something.

[KindGrind]

Saw the HD release, the International version that runs 2h15 or so. This is apparently Lynch's approved cut, not the longer Alan Smithee version.

[TLDragoon]

I actually just watched it last week for the first time in a looooong time. It's interesting to see how the Sci-Fi movie reproduced a few of the scenes.

Some of the characters are off, like the Boron who comes more insane than cold and calculating. It also fails to really draw any empathy with any of the characters, but trying to cram all that in to a small time frame really isn't possible.

For it's time, though, it is an admirable attempt to capture a science fiction classic.

[FRO]

I prefer the longer Alan Smithee cut w/ the prologue. I have the special edition DVD (in the awesome tin), and have watched that version several times. I've never once spun the theatrical release.

[kengou]

TERRIBLE MOVIE!

The only thing it handles well is the tone of the books. Everything beyond that was either dead wrong or even completely contradictory.

For instance, the fact that, in the movie, the Fremen won because of the superior technology of the "weirding modules" undermines the very message of their victory in the book, that of superior conditioning and human abilities winning out over a complacent Sardaukar force.

The weirding module is my biggest complaint about the movie since Lynch completely pulled it out of his ass to destroy the very soul of the book's story and message. The rest of it wasn't horrible (actually some of it was; heartplugs? wtf?

The best thing about that movie was Patrick Stewart as Gurney. The actor for Duncan looks spot-on, too, although he was done well in the two sci-fi miniseries as well.

[Joe T.]

Definitely enjoyed the Lynch version the most based on the visual aesthetic even though the Sci-Fi channel was truer to the books. You know Lynch had to be pumped about creating his own take on the Harkonnens. I wish they could have shown more of Geidi Prime as well.

The weirding modules or whatever they called those things were kind of lame but I guess they had to find a more interesting way to actualize the concept of the "weirding way".

What happened to Sean Young? She used to be so hot in the 80s but it didn't take long for her to become kind of just weird.

Also thought Virginia Madsen looked good back then too haha.

[Never_Scurred]

I learned an important lesson as a young man from Dune. Fear is indeed the mindkiller.

[Ed Oscuro]

I prefer the longer Alan Smithee cut

teehee

[Strider77]

to bad it didn't get to be properly completed.

[JoshF]

I don't know what people are talking about so I read this. Is it correct?

[CMoon]

I don't know what people are talking about so I read this. Is it correct?

Woah! Lynch was asked to direct Return of the Jedi? WTF??

[JoshF]

Goat fetus ewoks.

I'm more surprised that Lucas would want him.

[FRO]

I prefer the longer Alan Smithee cut

teehee

What's so funny?

Kengou - I know what you're saying, but from purely a "movie-goer" perspective, it's an interesting film. The thing I love, besides the design aesthetics & the liberties they took (which does destroy the soul of the books, I'll grant you), is how everything is so deliciously overwrought. EVERYONE overacts in the film, right down to the bit parts like Nefud or Linda Hunt as the Shadout Mapes. The acting is so over the top that it makes the film transcend the original source material in some ways. It's fun to watch (for me) just because of how involved everyone is in the script. You believe they are that character, even if it's completely wrong as opposed to the books.

Now, keep in mind, this is coming from the perspective of someone who saw the Alan Smithee cut 1st as a child, then read the books several years later for school, so I have what is probably quite a skewed perspective.

[antron]

In the book they specifically should not make it rain because this will kill the worms and the spice.

Lynch makes it rain, in his original cut.

Does the extended re-cut change this?




Shmuper mantra:
Fear is the Ship Killer.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

I don't know what people are talking about so I read this. Is it correct?

Woah! Lynch was asked to direct Return of the Jedi? WTF??

It would've been interesting to see Lynch's take on Lucas' Return of the Jedi film.

After reading the making of the 1984 film version of Dune pictorial book, a lot of time and effort went into making all the special EFX, movie props, and whatnot. At one point, the sandworms were regarded as big penises if they weren't shot in a certain way, the movie EFX team jokingly commented on that obvious fact. By using minature wire-controlled real-time puppetry, they did manage to pull off the giant monstrousities of the sandworms scenery.

The LJN Toys produced movie action figures of the 1984 film version of Dune are highly collectable -- I remember seeing them placed on the toy shelves at the local toy stores back in 1984. Even the Dune sandworm action figure could be bought as well -- it was bendable and posable. ^_~

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[kengou]

In the book they specifically should not make it rain because this will kill the worms and the spice.

Lynch makes it rain, in his original cut.

Does the extended re-cut change this?




Shmuper mantra:
Fear is the Ship Killer.

Hah, I totally forgot about that. Glaring issue. The instant that happened the entire universe would have been doomed because of the destruction of the worms and spice (the very destruction that Paul threatened unless he they made him Emperor).

I can almost appreciate the movie's cinematography, acting, and other things, if it weren't just such a disservice to the book. And as someone who re-reads the entire series about once a year, and considers it the finest piece of fiction to ever be devised, in any medium, I just can't forgive Lynch for what he did.

Maybe I'm coming off as an elitist book snob but I think anyone who really appreciates the books can understand my point of view.

[FRO]

In the book they specifically should not make it rain because this will kill the worms and the spice.

Lynch makes it rain, in his original cut.

Does the extended re-cut change this?




Shmuper mantra:
Fear is the Ship Killer.

No, the extended re-cut ends w/ the rain on Arakis like the original theatrical release. I believe it doesn't actually rain on Arakis according to the books until book 2 or 3 (if memory serves). Anyway, despite the liberties, I enjoyed it.

[Never_Scurred]

I downloaded the audiobook versions of the series. What am I in for?

[kengou]

In the book they specifically should not make it rain because this will kill the worms and the spice.

Lynch makes it rain, in his original cut.

Does the extended re-cut change this?




Shmuper mantra:
Fear is the Ship Killer.

No, the extended re-cut ends w/ the rain on Arakis like the original theatrical release. I believe it doesn't actually rain on Arakis according to the books until book 2 or 3 (if memory serves). Anyway, despite the liberties, I enjoyed it.

It only MIGHT rain in book 4, God Emperor of Dune, but even then I'm not sure if the book ever specifically mentions rain. It never rains on Arrakis in any other book for sure.

I downloaded the audiobook versions of the series. What am I in for?

Awesomeness.

Although it's possible the introspection and constant thoughts by every character might make anything other than a print version feel slow or boring, I can't say.

[Joe T.]

I know the argument against Fremen using technology to defeat the Harkonnens and Shaddam IV in the movie is totally valid and I have to agree, but just to put it out there... did Paul not use universally banned technology (atomics) to blast through the shields surrounding Arrakeen in the book? It's been a while since I read it but that's how it went down right?

[kengou]

I know the argument against Fremen using technology to defeat the Harkonnens and Shaddam IV in the movie is totally valid and I have to agree, but just to put it out there... did Paul not use universally banned technology (atomics) to blast through the shields surrounding Arrakeen in the book? It's been a while since I read it but that's how it went down right?

It's against the Great Convention to use Atomics against people. He used it on the Shield Wall, a mountain range protecting the city of Arrakeen from the desert beyond. Thus, since he was only using atomics against a natural feature of the land, it was legal. And he did that in order to allow a great storm into the city to disrupt the emperor's shields (environment conquering technology), as well as let in the Wormriders.

He used technology as a surprise tool to open up the use of his real weapon: the desert. This theme is used a lot in the series, the role of technology versus the role of human abilities and the role of nature as a conditioner and as a weapon. Again, this is something the movie missed, and in many cases contradicted, completely.

[Ed Oscuro]

He used technology as a surprise tool to open up the use of his real weapon: the desert. This theme is used a lot in the series, the role of technology versus the role of human abilities and the role of nature as a conditioner and as a weapon. Again, this is something the movie missed, and in many cases contradicted, completely.

Interesting. Guess I'd better get dat book already

[Joe T.]

It's against the Great Convention to use Atomics against people. He used it on the Shield Wall, a mountain range protecting the city of Arrakeen from the desert beyond. Thus, since he was only using atomics against a natural feature of the land, it was legal. And he did that in order to allow a great storm into the city to disrupt the emperor's shields (environment conquering technology), as well as let in the Wormriders.

Ok, I do remember the part where this is debated now.

To Ed Oscuro,

I would suggest getting all of the books really.

For anyone who has read the House Atreides, House Harkonnen, and House Corrino books:

How are these?

Would you rate Brian Herbert as highly as his father?


I bought the three a year or so ago but they've been out-prioritized by other books since and I haven't read any of them yet.

[szycag]

I tried to sit down and watch this just because I was a Lynch fan and wanted to see what it was like. I was torn before putting it on though since I hadn't read the book. I think I only watched about 30 minutes before I stopped it. Just seemed like I would be doing the book a big injustice to continue.

Or would I? Maybe I had it backwards and seeing the film first would make the book seem way better. In any case I've put off reading Dune for a long time now :/

[KindGrind]

For anyone who has read the House Atreides, House Harkonnen, and House Corrino books:

How are these?

Would you rate Brian Herbert as highly as his father?

They're interesting, in a sense that they they provide a lot of back story. That's it. The House books are more pop culture than anything else. They have little to no literary value in terms of quality of writing. Brian is nowhere as good as his father - he works work great material but ultimately the books feel like cheap writing.

[kengou]

Ok, I do remember the part where this is debated now.

To Ed Oscuro,

I would suggest getting all of the books really.

For anyone who has read the House Atreides, House Harkonnen, and House Corrino books:

How are these?

Would you rate Brian Herbert as highly as his father?


I bought the three a year or so ago but they've been out-prioritized by other books since and I haven't read any of them yet.

I read House Atreides and gave up after that. I just hate Brian Herbert as an author (Kevin J. Anderson isn't great either). His writing style is terrible, his plots are just childish compared to the masterpieces of Frank's work, and I consider none of his crap to be canon. In my opinion, don't bother.