US Customs/Duty Fees?

[honorless]

So I'm considering a purchase from Play-Asia that'd come to just over $200. According to the tiny text at the bottom of their invoice, that's the maximum amount you can import to the US without getting slapped by duty fees/import tax/whatever the hell it's called.

There's gotta be at least one person who's had something worth approximately this much shipped from P-A to the US. How much am I looking at, if anything?

[Ganelon]

$0

[Skykid]

Nice for you, if you lived under the oppressive tax loving government of the UK, you get absolutely raped for importing anything over £25. By raped I mean adding 12% V.A.T (based entirely on their assumption of the item's actual value) then an astronomical fee from royal mail for shipping your item from the customs depot.

All in all, if you're unlucky (or end up buying from Mad Gear on ebay, who's a cock - that's another story) you can end up paying nearly double.

[honorless]

$0

Seriously? I'm a little reluctant to believe they'd just shrug and let it go...but then again given how overworked/incompetent U.S customs is, maybe the borderline shit ends up falling through the cracks.

You'll have to forgive me for hoping somebody else corroborates this—I imagine any customs-related fees I might incur would be more than the sales tax I'd pay buying from NCSX.

Skykid—yeah, I've heard many a story about UK customs rape. You've got my sympathies. At least your country isn't circling the drain?

[Lordstar]

or end up buying from Mad Gear on ebay, who's a cock - that's another story

You have my attention, go on!

[Grinning Cat]

or end up buying from Mad Gear on ebay, who's a cock - that's another story

You have my attention, go on!

He refuses to falsify Customs forms, so every international buyer gets screwed. That said, I do have some time for the guy - he's one of the few sellers on eBay where mint actually means mint. So if there's something I really want/care about, I can 'live' with the customs rape. Just.

[MX7]

Nice for you, if you lived under the oppressive tax loving government of the UK, you get absolutely raped for importing anything over £25. By raped I mean adding 12% V.A.T (based entirely on their assumption of the item's actual value) then an astronomical fee from royal mail for shipping your item from the customs depot.

All in all, if you're unlucky (or end up buying from Mad Gear on ebay, who's a cock - that's another story) you can end up paying nearly double.

Yeah, living in the UK sucks for importing. I've only been stung with surprise import fines once, but it was enough. Fuck UPS

[Michaelm]

He refuses to falsify Customs forms, so every international buyer gets screwed.

Hmm, and how does that make him a bad person ?!?
This custom thingy is a favour a seller can do for you. It's not mandatory by any means. Hell, I'm not doing anyone any favour that could bite ME in the future.

[Lordstar]

Yeah i can see why he would do that. If its payed via ebay you could just have some one go over your head and claim that the value was put down and they would get there money back from the seller that way. Forced!

Ive been on the other end of it when i bought a Cave board and it was cheap then it had another load of shit added to it becuase UPS decided to fucking reem me ended up being double the original price.

[GaijinPunch]

You can quite easily say that the value of the item is almost nothing, but locating, packing, and shipping is. People do this shit on Ebay left and fucking right day in and day out.

[jpj]

i got fucked out of £30 last week, by parcelforce.

item took 3 days to travel atlantic, and SEVEN days from arriving in britain, to get to me. i was supposed to wait for them to send me out a letter with my VAT payment code thing, but i talked the guy round over the phone still, it stung.

on the otherhand, i've bought so many "used toy - $10" from japan, it's unbelievable

[jonny5]

we get raped on international customs in canada

i once had a $25 package come from playasia......and i had $9 in customs fees

ouch

not so bad from the states....and not consistent either.....i ve had stuff come that was a few hundred dollars and no customs fees....then something under 100 comes and wham.......$20 in fees....

i dunno.....cost of doing business i guess

[Zach Keene]

$0

Seriously? I'm a little reluctant to believe they'd just shrug and let it go...but then again given how overworked/incompetent U.S customs is, maybe the borderline shit ends up falling through the cracks.

You'll have to forgive me for hoping somebody else corroborates this—I imagine any customs-related fees I might incur would be more than the sales tax I'd pay buying from NCSX.

I had a $230 order from PA once, and I too was forced to pay a whopping $0 in customs fees.

[iatneH]

we get raped on international customs in canada

i once had a $25 package come from playasia......and i had $9 in customs fees

ouch

not so bad from the states....and not consistent either.....i ve had stuff come that was a few hundred dollars and no customs fees....then something under 100 comes and wham.......$20 in fees....

i dunno.....cost of doing business i guess

Only if the package is marked as "Merchandise", which play-asia does and refuses to mark as anything else.

My first nasty one was an order of Mushi LE and some other things, total package was around $200 and I ended getting nailed around $70 in duties.

I started ordering more from yesasia and less from play-asia starting then.

[Lordstar]

on the otherhand, i've bought so many "used toy - $10" from japan, it's unbelievable

Used toys rock!

[GaijinPunch]

I'll be putting Japan to the test. I ordered a very expensive electronic gadget this past week. In my history, I've only gotten fucked on clothes, and it's like 1500 yen on top of a 20,000 or so, so it's not too bad, all things considered. Still way cheaper than buying in Japan in most cases.

[KindGrind]

Bought a 15$ LCD for my PSone from the States off Ebay, had to pay 56$ extra to the guy that delivered it to my door. No more UPS crossing borders for me. Fucking retarded.

EDIT:Typo.

[Grinning Cat]

He refuses to falsify Customs forms, so every international buyer gets screwed.

Hmm, and how does that make him a bad person ?!?
This custom thingy is a favour a seller can do for you. It's not mandatory by any means. Hell, I'm not doing anyone any favour that could bite ME in the future.

A bad person? No. But fairly inflexible. I think there's a happy-balance between covering your ass and keeping your buyers happy. I mean, as long it's made clear from the outset that the marking down of an item may result in less cover, I don't see what the problem is Especially given the fact that if you've been paid by Paypal, you've already opened yourself up to a myriad of chargebacks, anyway

[Ed Oscuro]

Once I said Mad Gear's stuff was expensive (on Digitpress) and he showed up in person to go BRAAAWR

Even so, I like his stuff, and I'm thinking of getting a game from him soon.

[Grinning Cat]

Yeah, don't get me wrong, I've ordered stuff from him recently-ish, too. The customs issue is annoying, but knowing exactly what you're getting helps justify the premium for me. Especially given that 'mint ' is probably the most over-used (and yet most misunderstood) term on eBay

He also does get some pretty cool stuff now and again. Still kicking myself for missing that MSX Undeadline he had some months back

[KindGrind]

It's funny everyone should mention this particular seller, because everytime I look for a particular game he always seems to have it. I think it's quite honest from him to mention in every listing that he won't mark down stuff, yet the result for me is that I'll never buy from him, ever.

I don't even click on his auctions anymore when I recognize the style/background on the gallery pictures next to the listing. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

[honorless]

I had a $230 order from PA once, and I too was forced to pay a whopping $0 in customs fees.

How awful.

Well, thanks for the input; I'm sold. (Now to sit and wait until my recreational funds regenerate from the 25% off sale...)

[Skykid]

Absolutely rubbish, I refuse to hear anything about a seller who refuses to aid his customers by saving them a shedload of unnecessary fees.

Mad Gear is an ass, and Gaijinpunch is 100% spot on in his assessment of the situation.

There is no way, I repeat, NO WAY, that a thirteen year old Saturn game has any real current market value, therefore can be marked quite safely at any value. I requested, considering I was spending over $150 with the guy, if he would mind marking the value down to something reasonable considering the age of the game.

No reply, two weeks later and $120 worth of fines, refusal for return, arguing with customs about the item only having a 'percieved value', and many heated emails, I paid up.

He is a cock, as stated previously, and no UK buyer should ever risk buying from him. I've bought plenty of games on Ebay that are mint as stated with no trouble.

Even Shopping Mall Japan will mark down values on packages at the customers request, and I won't hear any of that guff about 'being arrested'.

[Ed Oscuro]

Mad Gear is an ass, and Gaijinpunch is 100% spot on in his assessment of the situation.

Not to be offensive/dense, but I don't actually understand what GP was saying (in the first post).

There is no way, I repeat, NO WAY, that a thirteen year old Saturn game has any real current market value,

You sell me Saturn game for $1 yes?

Just to play Devil's Advocate - I don't think that Mad Gear is worried about legal stuff, but imagine all the lost revenue the UK Government wouldn't take in if everybody marked down customs fees for private stuff. This revenue would have to be made up somehow.

This isn't just shipping back and forth your own stuff, like US military people getting discount shipping rates when sending their own stuff (the X68000 I took apart had a return address of U.S.S. Kitty Hawk; the damaged label in a "whoops" envelope I'm keeping because you don't see that return address every day). From the standpoint of the government, it is indeed a form of tax dodge. In fact, I know that quite a few game collectors are using games as a new sort of commodity to diversify and trade in.

No reply, two weeks later and $120 worth of fines, refusal for return, arguing with customs about the item only having a 'percieved value', and many heated emails, I paid up.

Sounds epic...what the heck happened that you were arguing about the "'percieved value'" with customs?

Can't say I'm especially infatuated with the UK postal service myself though - when I bought my Amiga/Atari ST games (which I need to do something with, i.e. play or sell), it took me so long to get them that the feedback period timed out, which was bad as the seller deserved a positive on that one.

Anyway, even though this may all be true I am still pretty interested in buying something from 16-bit. I am in America, which helps.

[charlie chong]

ack i've got to pay £43.50 to get my battle gregor board from parcelforce ..still thats what happens when you plump to insure for the full value.. either take the risk of losing your board or it arriving damaged or get ready to be raped by customs.

[Skykid]

Ouch, Charlie I feel that mate!


To clarify Ed, 'current' market value would be something you could consider is available to buy in a store today, that the manufacturer profits from directly.

A thirteen year old Saturn CD has a value, but only to collectors, and only on a second hand market. Essentially, the governing of import duties should be to balance the value of goods against goods which exist for sale in the UK. Because we're overpriced to start with, the government likes to make sure we can't get goods cheaper elsewhere and spend our money on products in-land.

However, a Japanese Saturn CD is firstly Japanese, secondly defunct and no longer in production, and thirdly, has no impact on our economy. I should have the right to purchase the item on a non-commercial market at a 'perceived value' (which is that value second hand traders have given it rather than the original manufacturer) without fear of import duties.

All of this was lost on customs and of course Mad Gear who spewed all this patriotic sickening bullshit at me and refused to hear a word.

If there weren't so many ignorant people on both sides of the border (they being customs and the US seller), it wouldn't have been so sour. Anyone can see that a Saturn CD marked on the package at $150 is totally unnecessary.

Thankfully, the vast majority of traders I deal with fully understand this. To date, I've never been customed charged for an international deal on shmups.

[Ed Oscuro]

To clarify Ed, 'current' market value would be something you could consider is available to buy in a store today, that the manufacturer profits from directly.

I'm saying that's an irrelevant distinction by any official (or meaningful) measure.

In the UK you have tax exemptions for classic cars, but deciding what the cutoff year should be is a political issue that will have to balance the desires of enthusiasts, investors, and the Government's tax collection purposes.

Governments don't care if your coin collection or classic car is available at banks or at dealerships when they assess taxes after your sale of it. Second-hand sales don't benefit the manufacturer, and tracking overstock and sold inventory is not really that straightforward for manufacturers, so that's another criteria that doesn't really stack up.

The bottom line for Government will be that if you can sell an item for a certain amount you should pay taxes in proportion. Anything else is a tax dodge. The market for classic games is here to stay, just as the classic coin market. I wouldn't be surprised if a depression or rampant inflation only increased demand for classic games as people attempted to maximize the value of falling currency or sidestep the loss of traditional investing opportunities.

[Skykid]

To clarify Ed, 'current' market value would be something you could consider is available to buy in a store today, that the manufacturer profits from directly.

I'm saying that's an irrelevant distinction by any official (or meaningful) measure.

In the UK you have tax exemptions for classic cars, but deciding what the cutoff year should be is a political issue that will have to balance the desires of enthusiasts, investors, and the Government's tax collection purposes.

Governments don't care if your coin collection or classic car is available at banks or at dealerships when they assess taxes after your sale of it. Second-hand sales don't benefit the manufacturer, and tracking overstock and sold inventory is not really that straightforward for manufacturers, so that's another criteria that doesn't really stack up.

The bottom line for Government will be that if you can sell an item for a certain amount you should pay taxes in proportion. Anything else is a tax dodge. The market for classic games is here to stay, just as the classic coin market. I wouldn't be surprised if a depression or rampant inflation only increased demand for classic games as people attempted to maximize the value of falling currency or sidestep the loss of traditional investing opportunities.

You're right Ed, but the point of this topic should really come back to one thing:

Considering the item is a Saturn CD, is it really that difficult to save the customer an extortionate amount of money by putting it's value at a perfectly reasonable figure that would have no trouble convincing anyone in the customs department?

What's reasonable and unreasonable is the real issue here. I'm convinced if it were you selling to someone in the UK, you would, at their request or of your own volition, be happy to adjust the value on the package to save them some pain.

[Ed Oscuro]

I'm not arguing with that ;)

If the British Government was about to fall apart from loss of revenue then they probably start enforcing this more strenuously. If a lot of people dodge the customs tax on small items, there's no reason that somebody importing a much larger item that obviously will be assessed a larger tax will get any break (if anything the fee probably represents a higher burden on them).

Of course, the customs fee is probably in part designed to convince British to buy domestically. Ignoring that, I think it'd probably be a better solution to find taxes elsewhere since the system is so easy to cheat on smaller items.

But yeah, Mad-Gear isn't really shoring up the system by himself.

[Skykid]

I'm not arguing with that

If the British Government was about to fall apart from loss of revenue then they probably start enforcing this more strenuously. If a lot of people dodge the customs tax on small items, there's no reason that somebody importing a much larger item that obviously will be assessed a larger tax will get any break (if anything the fee probably represents a higher burden on them).

Of course, the customs fee is probably in part designed to convince British to buy domestically. Ignoring that, I think it'd probably be a better solution to find taxes elsewhere since the system is so easy to cheat on smaller items.

But yeah, Mad-Gear isn't really shoring up the system by himself.

Well he can trade in whichever way he chooses. Giving me the patriotic spiel about not lying to his country made me want to stick my fingers down my throat.

I wouldn't encourage anyone in the UK spending over £15 with him though, hence me hi-jacking this thread as a warning.