Is the Wii mainly good for casual gamers/kids?

[kengou]

It's a bit hard for PC gamers to be considered "hardcore" when PC gaming itself is dying/stuck in a rut/irrelevant until VALVe makes the next big thing.

Proof please?

Both Steam and WoW have more users than Xbox Live or PSN does. Consoles are slowly turning into specialized gaming PCs anyway. I see a future where you have gaming PCs and whatever the hell Nintendo will be doing (virtual reality of some sort), and that'll be it.

[Elixir]

It's a bit hard for PC gamers to be considered "hardcore" when PC gaming itself is dying/stuck in a rut/irrelevant until VALVe makes the next big thing.

Proof please?

What's come out in the past 6 months for PC which has been notable? Of course Steam has more users; more people have a PC over a gaming console. And WoW, well, that's an MMORPG. Apart from FPS and MMORPGs, the poor PC doesn't have much variety. Those two genres are being catered to almost specifically these days.

[kengou]

It's a bit hard for PC gamers to be considered "hardcore" when PC gaming itself is dying/stuck in a rut/irrelevant until VALVe makes the next big thing.

Proof please?

What's come out in the past 6 months for PC which has been notable? Of course Steam has more users; more people have a PC over a gaming console. And WoW, well, that's an MMORPG. Apart from FPS and MMORPGs, the poor PC doesn't have much variety. Those two genres are being catered to almost specifically these days.

RTS?

Recently there hasn't been much on the PC. Sins of a Solar Empire was really good. Crysis last fall was really good. The Orange Box was amazing. Assassin's Creed last spring was really good. Mass Effect just came out a month or two ago, it's... ok (lots of people love it, I don't however. But it is a high-profile and well-reviewed release). Audiosurf was a major PC-exclusive release last year too.

More important are the upcoming releases. Valve will always make amazing games centered around the PC. Half-Life 2: Episode 3 will probably come some time next year. You know they'll make Portal 2. And there's also Blizzard's recent huge announcements of Starcraft 2 and Diablo 3 which are going to be huge and PC-exclusive. Then there's Fallout 3, Empire: Total War, Dawn of War 2, and CoD5.

Sure, PC is all about FPS and RTS generally, but it always has been the best platform for all those genres. And every console is inundated with FPS games nowadays too (a travesty as far as I'm concerned, they belong on PC). I see no evidence that the PC is "dying" and console gamers and press have been saying it since the 90's. Guess what, it's still around and going strong.

[Elixir]

So, there hasn't been anything worthwhile for the PC in the past 6 months that hasn't been ported and we're all waiting for upcoming titles from two companies catering to 2-3 genres.

Got it.

[professor ganson]

Yeah, but with the rising cost of production for major titles, we're going to see droughts on all platforms. That's where the flow of more independent titles on the Wii becomes a major strength. My guess is that the Wii will ultimately prove to be like the PS2 was last generation: the system with something to offer every type of gamer. Maybe even the drunken frat boys. Of course, we're going to need to see some better RPGs before the comparison can be at all plausible.

[MR_Soren]

It depends on what you mean by hardcore. Lately, hardcore seems to mean "big budget highly hyped online FPS games," and I don't see anything hardcore about that.

Being a niche gamer (which I think is pretty hardcore), I find the Wii has plenty of good stuff:
Williams Pinball
Shikigami III
Fire Emblem
Baroque
Chocobo Dungeon
Blast Works
Metal Slug Anthology
Guilty Gear XX Accent Core
Geometry Wars Galaxies

I consider that more interesting than the Wii's competition. With the Wii having the largest installed base, I'd expect the Wii to get more niche titles as time goes on because those tend to target the most popular console.

Beyond the niche stuff, a lot of the more popular mainstream stuff like Boom Blox, Zelda, Trauma Center, Mario Galaxy, Metroid Prime, No More Heroes, Resident Evil 4, Mario Kart, Okami, Guitar Hero, Smash Bros, and House of the Dead are also very good. The Wii's got plenty of worthwhile games and they all cost less than a typical PS3/360 game.

Regarding the controls, not all games use motion or pointing. The Classic Controller and Hori's stick are very nice.

I don't care for most virtual console stuff because I prefer to buy the original carts, but I think it's great that TG16 games are on there so I can play Devi's Crush and some of the shooters. My policy is to purchase instead of pirate when buying a game isn't terribly expensive or inconvenient.

IMO, the only thing holding the Wii back is that Western developers and media outlets refuse to take the Wii seriously.

[kozo]

In regards to PC decline, that may be the case in some areas, but Falcom is pumping more and more extremely solid, high quality PC titles now than ever before. Stuff like Xanadu Next, which is freaking amazing, and Ys: The Oath in Felghana, are both excellent action games. I know Legend of Heroes 6 and it's side stories are massive sellers and have been shortly thereafter ported to the PSP (not talking about the Bandai 3-5 stuff, this is Falcom themselves.) Zwei 2, Ys Seven and LOH7 are on the way this year...and that's just Falcom. This is in Japan, though, so I'm not sure if this applies to the discussion or not.

As for the Wii, I SORELY regret buying one. Every time I go to store and check out what's on the shelves, I am saddened and disappointed by the selection. I mostly bought it for my wife, but even she doesn't really play it. Aside from the obvious Shiki, Okami, NMH, Baroque, etc. etc. goodness, I have zero interest in the titles for it, but to each his own I suppose.

We probably turn it on once a month, if that. As excellent as the Prof's points are, I am in the 'VC is a joke' camp and find it incredibly insulting that Nintendo will sell these half-baked, uber-basic, totally un-touched (and probably DL'd off the internet) roms at $5-$10 a pop...and then proceed to pull in teh cash. And what's with the selection? They're really slow on the uptake. It simply can't be that hard for them to stick 100 ROMs up a week or so. Maybe at $1 I would buy an NES game or two, but I haven't spent a penny on VC at this point and probably won't change that. I want to sell it SO bad, but I'd probably hurt the girlies feelings in the process.

wee

[jpj]

i've never used the VC, but i'd like to point out that nintendo did translate Sin & Punishment (N64) and release it here in europe. i wouldn't say it's completely lazy. i also imagine there's a lot of legal shit to wrangle through with regards to classifications, etc

[Frederik]

Nintendo revealed an add-on that is supposed to make the Wiimote functional, err I mean EVEN BETTER THAN BEFORE!!!!

[MR_Soren]

They better start including these gizmos with Wiis and controllers by the end of the year if they expect this thing to ever catch on.

[Frederik]

Yeah. Another problem is that if they keep swamping the market with peripherals like this, you´ll have to spend as much money on these add-ons as on your regular games if you want to keep up with them.

Actually, I´m kind of interested in how this will improve the Wiimotes performance, someone said that there are two more motion sensors in it, but actual 1:1 control is what I really would have wanted from the start.

[Elixir]

Being a niche gamer (which I think is pretty hardcore), I find the Wii has plenty of good stuff:

Wallowing in mediocrity doesn't make you a hardcore gamer, it just means you have bad taste.

The Classic Controller and Hori's stick are very nice.

Classic controller? Good? I thought you just said you're a "hardcore" gamer? The classic controller is trash. At least there's an SNES controller for the Wii now. But prior to that, I regret buying one.

Once again the majority of your titles listed are either inferior ports, mediocre games or really "love or hate" titles like Baroque. The mainstream titles are good, if you remove House of the Dead (revamped port), Resident Evil 4 (revamped port), Okami (revamped port) and Guitar Hero (sewage).

Yeah, but with the rising cost of production for major titles, we're going to see droughts on all platforms. That's where the flow of more independent titles on the Wii becomes a major strength. My guess is that the Wii will ultimately prove to be like the PS2 was last generation: the system with something to offer every type of gamer. Maybe even the drunken frat boys. Of course, we're going to need to see some better RPGs before the comparison can be at all plausible.

I haven't really seen a dry spell with the 360 this year. Every month, or close to every month, there's been a game worth checking out. The DS has also had a great last 6 months, with FFTA2, MS7, EO2, Legend of Stafi 5, Daigasso Band Brothers DX, WEWY, AW2, Space Invaders, etc.

[MR_Soren]

Ideally, they should replace the original Wii-mote with a controller that has the new functionality built-in. Thus making this new device a temporarily available upgrade for people with the original controllers.

If not, I think people will get fed up with all the shit you gotta buy for players two, three, and four.

Wallowing in mediocrity doesn't make you a hardcore gamer, it just means you have bad taste.

I'd rather have bad taste in your opinion than be an as... Oh! Metal Slug 7 is out now! Awesome!

[lgb]

Wallowing in mediocrity doesn't make you a hardcore gamer, it just means you have bad taste.

No, it means you have different taste. "Of course, that's just an opinion."
Yes, I think video games, period, are beginning to cater to "casual gamers". There also happens to be hardcore games slipping through the medium-sized cracks. Not that I mind much. Final Fantasy XII was great.

[MR_Soren]

Yes, I think video games, period, are beginning to cater to "casual gamers". There also happens to be hardcore games slipping through the medium-sized cracks. Not that I mind much. Final Fantasy XII was great.

You've hit on the point I failed to state. Video games in general are turning pretty casual and easily accessible. The only hardcore experiences left are little known games in niche genres that most reviewers and players fail to see the point of.

[Frederik]

I'd rather have bad taste in your opinion than be an as... Oh! Metal Slug 7 is out now! Awesome!

Yeah, it´s "out"

[professor ganson]

Yeah, but with the rising cost of production for major titles, we're going to see droughts on all platforms. That's where the flow of more independent titles on the Wii becomes a major strength. My guess is that the Wii will ultimately prove to be like the PS2 was last generation: the system with something to offer every type of gamer. Maybe even the drunken frat boys. Of course, we're going to need to see some better RPGs before the comparison can be at all plausible.

I haven't really seen a dry spell with the 360 this year. Every month, or close to every month, there's been a game worth checking out. The DS has also had a great last 6 months, with FFTA2, MS7, EO2, Legend of Stafi 5, Daigasso Band Brothers DX, WEWY, AW2, Space Invaders, etc.

When Ikaruga is the top 360 game for a long stretch, there isn't much going on.

I didn't say that there were rising costs for the DS! How did the DS enter the discussion?

[Elixir]

I suppose you missed Lost Odyssey, Raiden Fighters Aces, Triggerheart Excelica, DMC4, Ninja Gaiden 2, Condemned 2 and GTA IV which all came out before/after Ikaruga.

[professor ganson]

I suppose you missed Lost Odyssey, Raiden Fighters Aces, Triggerheart Excelica, DMC4, Ninja Gaiden 2, Condemned 2 and GTA IV which all came out before/after Ikaruga.

Yeah, you're right, now that I think about it. The 360 has been putting out quality titles at a steady rate, so I guess it's not quite true that the high costs of production have created droughts everywhere. I still think that the 360 could stand to get more niche titles. More puzzle games, RPGs, arcade ports... the sorts of things that made the PS2 so much fun. There's room for niche titles beyond XBLA.

[dave4shmups]

I don't even think it's great for kids and casual gamers. I have no problems with casual games, as long as they're well-made-but 99% of the time, on the Wii, they aren't. Unless you just have to play Super Mario Galaxy or Metroid Prime 3, the Wii just isn't worth it.

Honestly, I cannot think of another video game system with a library of more poorly rated games other then the CD-i. The cruel irony in this, is that it was Nintendo that saved console gaming from a glut of poor games.

[professor ganson]

Yeah, Dave, but the poor ratings overall are largely a product of deregulation-- Sony and MS have much more strict quality control currently. In the long run I think Nintendo's strategy will serve them well. Yes, you will get some crap titles, but you will also get the unforeseen gems. The situation is not even close to the crisis situation you had in the 80s with crap games like E.T. Stricter quality control may have helped a bit there. But Nintendo's situation is very different. They are looking to increase 3rd party support, and this is the smartest way to go, imo.

[MR_Soren]

I'd rather see Nintendo allow crap games on their system (I don't have to buy them) than see something like when SONY was rejecting PS2 games I would have bought.