Live music recordings.

Pixel_Outlaw · Post by **Pixel_Outlaw** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 5:55 am

So what is the big deal with live recordings?

You have the singers usually singing at the wrong tempo lacking the original feeling of the song with muffled instruments and idiotic crowds blurring out the tunes.

What makes live recordings so popular?

I'd rather have the band recording in ideal conditions so I can hear every note and beat perfectly.

Damocles · Post by **Damocles** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 6:37 am

Some live recordings capture, quite well, the "energy" of the band...whatever that vague notion means to you. Bad Religion produces wonderful live recordings, the Distillers sound great live...of course, it's punk and it's loud, so that helps. Rammstein does some decent live albums...Live Aus Berlin and Volkerball. Acoustic sets also seem prone to being done well live. That being said, if you take a crappy band with studio-produced talent you'll have a sub-par sound on your hands.

In contrast, I find that many albums today seem...overproduced...they're too clean.

moozooh · Post by **moozooh** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 7:41 am

Pixel_Outlaw wrote:So what is the big deal with live recordings?

The solo at 4:55. Note that it sounds alright and no crowd is heard.

But it's not uncommon to have live versions of songs that are better than their studio counterparts. Sinister Minister comes to mind first, of all things.

The question is how to perform and how to record.

indstr · Post by **indstr** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 12:31 pm

Right, obviously if the band or the production staff did the recording themselves, the sound is going to be a lot cleaner because it's coming straight out of the mixing board. It can sound as good as a studio album.

Bootlegs are terrible and I avoid them at all costs.

Turrican · Post by **Turrican** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 1:12 pm

What are your favorite live albums / live recordings ever?

indstr · Post by **indstr** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 2:21 pm

The MTV unplugged series has always been good -- gives an acoustic take on a band which usually sounds pretty fresh and different.

EOJ · Post by **EOJ** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 4:01 pm

I tape bands I like (mostly indie/shoegaze stuff) whenever I can on a portable DAT recorder w/ Core Sound binaural stealth microphones. This setup produces fantastic sounding tapes. I also trade with other tapers, and have amassed a collection of over 600 privately recorded shows over 8-9 years in the hobby. They vary widely in quality (soundboards are the best, but I have some digital audience recordings that rival the best soundboards), but I love the hobby, and it's very enjoyable to hear lots of different live versions of songs, as well as the band/artist in different venues around the world. Each show really does sound unique.

It's also impossible for me to go to a show and not tape it now.

jpj · Post by **jpj** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 5:33 pm

Turrican wrote:What are your favorite live albums / live recordings ever?

led zeppelin - bbc sessions
red hot chili peppers - live at hyde park

Jon · Post by **Jon** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 5:41 pm

Unless they really dish out some interesting covers or some radically different takes on their songs I generally don't bother with live recordings. I have a couple bootleg Animal Collective recordings that are worth keeping just for the handfull of great unreleased songs they have (and the fact that they actually sound pretty decent.)

Never understood the hippies with their metric buttloads of Dead and Phish bootlegs.

moozooh · Post by **moozooh** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 6:42 pm

EOJ wrote:I tape bands I like (mostly indie/shoegaze stuff) whenever I can […] It's also impossible for me to go to a show and not tape it now.

I'm afraid I'm catching this disease as well. How much did you get your binaural mics for? I may look into that in the future.

For the last ~two years or so, I've been using a recording-enabled DAP (iriver H320) with a great custom firmware allowing it to pre-record, monitor and adjust levels for separate channels on the fly, and, most importantly, capture the sound through line-in at 16/44.1/stereo PCM until either the disk space or battery runs out (which means it can go on for like half a day at least). I'm using a self-powered electret stereo mic (Philips SBC ME570) which is apparently good at picking up highs (holds up to ~18 KHz, which was a surprise for me) but gives a comparatively poor bass response. The specs suggest it picks from 50 Hz up, but I'd say the rapid decline starts from around 100-120 Hz already. How do your mics behave on low frequencies? What is also nice about it is that it's pretty hard to overload even at a very bass-heavy performance. At worst, it just won't pick the bass up.

indstr · Post by **indstr** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 6:57 pm

Jon wrote:Never understood the hippies with their metric buttloads of Dead and Phish bootlegs.

Me neither.

I like to watch the occasional live performance from some of my favourite artists so I get their concert DVD's sometimes

Tempest · Post by **Tempest** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 6:58 pm

Turrican wrote:What are your favorite live albums / live recordings ever?

Barenaked Ladies - Rock Spectacle.

The only band I can think of that actually songs better live than in studio. Even though I haven't bought an album of theirs in years I'd still just at the chance to see them live.

RoninBuddha · Post by **RoninBuddha** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 7:10 pm

Number Girl's live albums/dvds are way better than thier studio albums (which are quite good in their own right still)

inb4weeaboo

EOJ · Post by **EOJ** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 9:32 pm

moozooh wrote: I'm afraid I'm catching this disease as well. How much did you get your binaural mics for? I may look into that in the future.

My CSBs cost $250, they have a dynamic range of 20hz-20,000hz. It comes with a battery box with selectable bass roll off. I usually just run them line-in without the bass roll off, as my Sony TCD-D8 DAT recorder's line input can take just about anything without distorting. The bass is really rich. They are super tiny, and I clip them under the collar of my shirt, with the wires running down the inside of my shirt. It's impossible to tell I'm recording.

Check out http://www.core-sound.com/mics/1.php for more info on their mics (they also sell higher end DPA stealth mics, and cardiod mics).

szycag · Post by **szycag** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 9:38 pm

One of my favorite live recordings

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdGwo6cyrzI

They went nuts on their live stuff around then.

moozooh · Post by **moozooh** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 9:41 pm

EOJ wrote:Check out http://www.core-sound.com/mics/1.php for more info on their mics (they also sell higher end DPA stealth mics, and cardiod mics).

Whoa, those are really small! Although as much as I love the idea of binaural recording, $264 for the shipped set is a bit too much for me at the moment. But still, many thanks for the link, this will definitely come handy in the future!

Davey · Post by **Davey** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 10:26 pm

Damocles wrote:In contrast, I find that many albums today seem...overproduced...they're too clean.

Yeah, sometimes when I hear a band play something live that I've never heard before (something new or a song from a CD I don't have) and then hear the studio version later, it sounds kind of hollow and lifeless.

Having said that, I still prefer studio versions most of the time.

dave4shmups · Post by **dave4shmups** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 11:06 pm

Pixel_Outlaw wrote:So what is the big deal with live recordings?

You have the singers usually singing at the wrong tempo lacking the original feeling of the song with muffled instruments and idiotic crowds blurring out the tunes.

What makes live recordings so popular?

I'd rather have the band recording in ideal conditions so I can hear every note and beat perfectly.

To each his own, but I would definitely agree with you; I probably own like one CD that's a live recording. They just don't sound clean enough to me-not the singing, or even the instruments.

That's also why I have no desire to go to concerts; they're waaaay too loud, and the crowd noise does get in the way.

My Mom told me that, back in the early '70's when she was teaching, she got to see Elvis, live here in Denver! I asked her what songs he sung, and she literally didn't know because of the crowd! Of course, that's Elvis, but still, as much as I love '80's music I do not regret missing out on any concerts by groups from that era.

moozooh · Post by **moozooh** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 11:13 pm

You know, that's the beauty of listening to unpopular stuff: you never get these big crowds with a bunch of girls around you screeching right in your ears. :)

During pretty much every single Current 93 gig I attended, there were perhaps a couple idiots shouting random crap from time to time, but otherwise the audience was carefully listening while David Tibet was singing, and every instrument could be heard perfectly. That's my idea of a good live performance. Listening to live stuff on CD is… not quite the same thing. Not even close, to be exact.

Pixel_Outlaw · Post by **Pixel_Outlaw** » Sat Jul 12, 2008 3:39 am

Mos tof my favorite songs are from the 60's to 80's so live recordings are really off many times.

dpful · Post by **dpful** » Sun Jul 13, 2008 8:16 pm

I love live recordings. If it's a rock group, and they're good- really good I mean, than a live recording will rule at ANY fidelity. That's the attitude I'd like to have, but I'm into a lot of 60's garage rock and rough soul music and stuff so It's just my tastes I suppose.
Here's my group, it's all recorded live or at least at once (no multitracking or overdubs).

http://www.myspace.com/redbennies

I guess I think rock should be this way. Other stuff probably shouldn't.

dpful · Post by **dpful** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 6:26 am

You know, I think that every time I've ever linked here to a band I'm in, (which has happened a few times), the thread ends

I just want to share, guys
is that so wrong?

MX7 · Post by **MX7** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 8:08 am

everyone's just jealous.

Damocles · Post by **Damocles** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 8:37 am

dpful wrote:You know, I think that every time I've ever linked here to a band I'm in, (which has happened a few times), the thread ends

I just want to share, guys
is that so wrong?

You guys make good stuff. Hell, I used to pop you chaps into the theatre sound system during tech week at work (live theatre) for the crew to rock out to.

D · Post by D » Tue Jul 15, 2008 12:35 pm

I like mtv unplugged, but I don't get the live performance thing.
Sure, it's fun to have your favorite performer perform, but I can't see any live performance ever being better than a controlled, mixed, edited studio process. Some of my friends say that then you can see how good they really are, but I'm more like: who cares?

jpj · Post by **jpj** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 12:45 pm

it depends on what sort of music you like. for some styles it's better live because the rough visceral feel gets wiped out by procrastinating producers. if like me, you listen to some improvisational music, you'll end up with tons of bootlegs

dazed & confused, 6 minutes in the studio, 27 minutes on stage

i can see it appealing more to people who play an instrument though

the exception to the rule would be dream theatre for me

live: no point

shmups.system11.org

Live music recordings.

Live music recordings.

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Re: Live music recordings.