Combining a Roguelike and Shmup?

Pixel_Outlaw · Post by **Pixel_Outlaw** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 5:28 pm

Recently I've been thinking about making a homebrew game that uses randomly generated dungeons. Well after some time I realized that shmups have random levels many times (in the homebrew world) why not create a shmup with randomly generated levels? Enemies would not have tile based movement nor would the player.

I think it would be cool to have a side view shmup with randomly generated levels. I've just finished a dungeon generator for roguelike games and it could be used for this. They would have to shoot down 4 door switches and then get to the exit within a generous amount of time.

A level may look like this where the exit is the orange door. (No switches shown here)

The player would have to milk the dungeon for bonus point items and other goodies while shooting down enemies and getting the door unlocked.

Items may include time extensions,lives,points, and effects like freezing all enemies.

Your thoughts? I think it would work really well and play as a solid shmup first then as a pseudo roguelike.

Kamakazie · Post by **Kamakazie** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 5:35 pm

Not really sure if I would call it shmup-like but I really like the concept. You're saying this is going to be something like a timed dungeon where you need to get through getting as many points as possible without running out of time? Because that sounds awesome.

Pixel_Outlaw · Post by **Pixel_Outlaw** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 5:41 pm

Yes each level has a reasonable timer to make sure the player gets through the level. This way they must progress.

I would give them plenty of time but they would need to shoot 4 door switches and watch their time to see if they really want to explore more.

Chi_Ryu · Post by **Chi_Ryu** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 5:52 pm

I love roguelikes (especially Nethack).
I love shmups.

I'm not too sure I understand the concept of a mix between the two... I'm sure I must be missing something, but iit sounds to me a bit like a side-view version of Gauntlet with randomly generated levels (wander around, kill stuff, do it quickly, get to the exit). Is this the case, or am I missing something...?

worstplayer · Post by **worstplayer** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 5:54 pm

It would work perfectly with Fraxy-like gameplay.

Ceph · Post by **Ceph** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 6:05 pm

A game like that exists. It will be my Game of the Week when it's my turn in three weeks. Sorry, I'm not telling before

http://2dgaming.bplaced.net/forum/viewt ... =1748#1748

P_HAT · Post by **P_HAT** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 6:05 pm

liek DoomRL in real time. Yes. Sexy.

Motorherp · Post by **Motorherp** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 6:53 pm

P_HAT wrote:liek DoomRL in real time. Yes. Sexy.

Sweet zombie Jesus ..... I just clicked on the link in your sig.

Are you thinking Alien Breed style gameplay with random dungeons P_O or have I completely missed the mark?

Mortificator · Post by **Mortificator** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 7:08 pm

I'm not quite clear on the concept. Do you mean that you walk around like a normal RL, but with battles that jump to the side-scrolling shooter style (à la Sigma Star Saga)? Or do you fly around a dungeon arena-shooter style completing tasks, like Sub-Terrania?

monkeyman · Post by **monkeyman** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 7:11 pm

I think top down could work well - with 360 degree firing - think Robotron meets Gauntlet.

glitch · Post by **glitch** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 7:29 pm

hi Ryan (?)
this sounds mostly awesome and also a little bit shit.
that time limit seems like a band aid. someone playing for score would necessarily have to milk every level until time runs out. milking bosses may have some charm to some, but roaming around a level you practically finished to score some more while waiting for a timer to run out sounds pretty boring (and horribly frustrating if you're ever a fraction of a second too late in entering the door), especially if the limit is indeed pretty lax. unless you have VERY bright ideas of how to prevent it, milking usually turns into some repetitive grind. so if you're using a timer, wouldn't it be wiser to award speed instead (like e.g. the time bonus on ikaruga bosses) so that milking isn't worth it, and that instead you're forced to choose your path carefully? or alternatively, no timer, but let killed enemies respawn as zero-valued zombie enemies. keeps the dungeon crowded AND stimulates exploration. [/ramble ramble] (i haven't played a single RL in my life so i have no idea what i'm even talking about really). -_-;;

gamingjustin · Post by **gamingjustin** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 7:53 pm

Your idea reminds me of Guardic for MSX... except randomly generated! In other words, it sounds awesome. Here's Guardic in action for anyone who's interested: http://youtube.com/watch?v=avxk2qH84fo

Post by **Shatterhand** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 9:20 pm

Guardic is the prequel to the NES semi-classic "The Guardian Legend" , which in the original jp version is called "Guardic Legend".

Though I don't think Guardic has much to do with this, there's no time limit on Guardic, you just have lots of room connected by corridors, and on each room you have a shmup challenge that plays most like a speeded-up version of galaga with more agressive enemies and free vertical movement.

Pixel_Outlaw · Post by **Pixel_Outlaw** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 10:53 pm

I've not played many of these games but let me rough out the current concept.

*The game will have real time shooting/dodging.
*The switches will be placed in 4 random places.
*The player has a resonable time to explore the dungeon hit 4 switches and get out. Time extensions would be available as random pick up items.
*The game would probably play a bit like Fantasy Zone only would have verticle movement too. Also bosses in some rooms and a set amount of enemy ships.
*I would not like to break rooms into levels I want the game to play smooth.

This is a rough design yet.

lgb · Post by **lgb** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 11:06 pm

Ceph wrote:A game like that exists. It will be my Game of the Week when it's my turn in three weeks. Sorry, I'm not telling before

http://2dgaming.bplaced.net/forum/viewt ... =1748#1748

I bet I know what it is.

nimitz · Post by **nimitz** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 11:12 pm

or what about a game like Loaded (PSX), but fun.

-Bridget- · Post by **-Bridget-** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 6:20 am

I do wonder how well an idea like this would work.

I love shmups, and recently I've gotten into Roguelikes almost as much.

But a merging of the two? Hmmm......

For example, one thing that tends to keep Roguelikes very interesting is items; most of these games have a very interesting item list indeed. Part of the reason to explore any given level in one, as opposed to just finding and then instantly entering the door, is to find as many items as you can, which in turn help you survive the game's incredible challenge. And the items tend to be interesting and unique, have multiple uses, and even have possible dangers if used wrong.

Makes the "random" aspect, and the exploring, seem less like a chore when you can find all these cool things, and then have to think up uses for them to keep from dying.

And lets not forget traps and things.

But how well would usual Roguelike elements such as those work in a shmup setting?

Sounds difficult to do, to me.

But if you can think of a way to make it all work, then by all means, have at it

Pixel_Outlaw · Post by **Pixel_Outlaw** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 3:41 pm

I'm sort of rolling this idea around in my head yet. I'm working full time and between my job and sleep schedule I have about 4 hours. Which is barely enough time to get the compiler up and going. The funny thing is when I don't have time to program I want to and when I have time to sit down to program I'm too tired from work to motivate myself.

This idea might work but I would need some people on a team.

Andi · Post by **Andi** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:20 am

I've stated this before: my perfect game would be Robotron the Rogue-like. Imagine this. It's like Rogue (with all of the survival and RPG components completely in tact), except every room would be filled Grunts and homing laser-shooting Brains and you would have shoot and strafe the shit out of them in real-time.

I would pay for this game.

Ceph · Post by **Ceph** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 9:41 pm

@Pixel_Outlaw

There, as promised, our current 2D Game of the Week:

http://2dgaming.bplaced.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=297

lgb · Post by **lgb** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 10:37 pm

Ceph wrote:@Pixel_Outlaw

There, as promised, our current 2D Game of the Week:

http://2dgaming.bplaced.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=297

I knew it was either this or Jabberwock. (I actually thought Jabberwock.)

MR_Soren · Post by **MR_Soren** » Fri Jun 27, 2008 12:48 pm

I think it would be cool to have a side view shmup with randomly generated levels.

Sol Divide's alternate mode did the roguelike shmup thing and it was terrible. Of course, if you make the player sprite smaller than 1/8 of the screen and... um, make everything else not suck, you might end up with a good game.

RotateMe · Post by **RotateMe** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 7:47 pm

I'm both a roguelike fan (and developer) and shmup fan and just wanted to say I love your idea!

Somewhere on this forum I asked before for something like this and indeed found more than one game that is a bit of both. Will try to find that and post links here.[/url]