Where did they go wrong: Namco edition.

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lgb
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Post by lgb »

1. Ninja Gaiden and every thing to do with Team NINJA is Tecmo/Tehkan; think Star Force. Namco is a different company altogether.

Now, one last OT:
Bill wrote:If anything NGI-III took Castlevania's basic action-platfoming structure, dispensed of everything that made it "Castlevania" (stairs, ridigly strict controls, methodical pacing) and added its own unique traits to create a distinct game. It's as much a Castlevania clone as Silent Hill is a Resident Evil one.
Hmm... I'd have to disagree. Silent Hill is too much of a Resident Evil clone to start comparing Ninja Gaiden to Castlevania. To be honest, I always considered Castlevania a clone of Mario to an extent. Ninja Gaiden is a good deal different; when you find a boomerang ninja star, a fire wall, or a aerial counter weapon in a NES CV without hacking, call me.
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BIL
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Post by BIL »

LGB wrote:Hmm... I'd have to disagree. Silent Hill is too much of a Resident Evil clone to start comparing Ninja Gaiden to Castlevania. To be honest, I always considered Castlevania a clone of Mario to an extent. Ninja Gaiden is a good deal different; when you find a boomerang ninja star, a fire wall, or a aerial counter weapon in a NES CV without hacking, call me.
Ninja Gaiden's three basic subweapons are obviously based around Castlevania's, but altered to require less precision and be less punishing if they whiff. Shuriken / Dagger = weak horizontal projectile. Boomerang Star / Cross = stronger returning horizontal projectile, expanded to return both ways. Firewall / Axe = diagonal upward attack, faster and more covering at the expense of no downard arc. Holy Water has no counterpart, but a game as fast as NG has little use for a "roadblock" weapon like that. The stopwatch is relegated to an instant-use item, and invincibility is present too. The Up + B use of the subweapons is another obvious connection. NG's jumping slash is obviously unique, but so are phantom clones and the diagonally-downward / vertically firing subweapons.

And the basic sword swipe is a much quicker and less whiff-punishing take on the whip. There are a lot of connections between the two if you consider NG plays like a much faster, less calculating Castlevania. It's much the same with SH and RE. SH may use RE's basic structure, but it's a far more storyline and ambience-intensive game where RE was always about horror action and jump scares.

I really don't know what to make of the Mario / Castlevania connection, at all. Why do you say that?
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Dremark
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Post by Dremark »

Mortificator wrote:The NES Gaidens are just Castlevania with the ninja from the arcade game swapped in anyway.
I remember the first time I played the NES version of Ninja Gaiden being extremely disappointed that it was different than the Arcade one. In retrospect it's funny seeing how much I still love the NES one and how poorly the arcade one aged IMO.

Also I suppose you have a point also.
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Dremark
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Post by Dremark »

Bill wrote:
Mortificator wrote:The NES Gaidens are just Castlevania with the ninja from the arcade game swapped in anyway.
There are obvious similarities, particularly with the two series' subweapons. But you can't say Ninja Gaiden II is just Castlevania III with a sprite swap. The pacing is far faster where Castlevania is relatively plodding and calculating, for one. If anything NGI-III took Castlevania's basic action-platfoming structure, dispensed of everything that made it "Castlevania" (stairs, ridigly strict controls, methodical pacing) and added its own unique traits to create a distinct game. It's as much a Castlevania clone as Silent Hill is a Resident Evil one.
I think his point was that my complaint with the new Ninja Gaidens didn't hold any water. That was how I took it at least.
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The n00b
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Post by The n00b »

Everything after Tekken 3
Almost every one of the "Tales" games

Oh yeah and I'll throw in soul calibur 4 in there too. I haven't played it yet but I love a good bandwagon.
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nimitz
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Post by nimitz »

Time Crisis 3 maybe.
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Nei First
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Post by Nei First »

Releasing crap like Tales of the Tempest/Tales of the world: RM/Tales of Legendia (Good story, terrible gameplay). Milking Tales of Symphonia. Pointless multiple releases of Tales of Phantasia with little significant improvements (this one seriously could do with a true remake).

All the while, sadly, not localising titles like Tales of Destiny Remake and Tales of Rebirth, prime examples of the tales series with unique battle systems that are among the best in the action-rpg genre.
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Vincere
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Post by Vincere »

The Sonics are just Super Mario Bros with the Hedgehog from the arcade game swapped in anyway.
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ForceDevice
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Post by ForceDevice »

Nei First wrote:Releasing crap like Tales of the Tempest/Tales of the world: RM/Tales of Legendia (Good story, terrible gameplay). Milking Tales of Symphonia. Pointless multiple releases of Tales of Phantasia with little significant improvements (this one seriously could do with a true remake).

All the while, sadly, not localising titles like Tales of Destiny Remake and Tales of Rebirth, prime examples of the tales series with unique battle systems that are among the best in the action-rpg genre.
QFT.

Except I don't think Legendia's gameplay is THAT bad. At least not the battle system, cause dungeon/world map design does suck.
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worstplayer
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Post by worstplayer »

Lordstar wrote:
Battlesmurf wrote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kill.switch

This is where Namco went wrong. This game was more or less awesome. I loved it! Why in the shit did Gears get the credit- when this game was years prior? I love Gears- but Namco REALLY should have taken this game further.
that would be advertisement campaign and the lack of. Not that ive played that game. is it any good?
It's not bad as much as it's incredibly buggy. In rare instances when it works as it should, shootouts are fun. As Battlesmurf said, it's more realistic predecessor to Gears Of War.
Oh, and it's ugly as shit, even for 2004, that's probably why it didn't sell well.
"A game isn't bad because you resent it. A game is bad because it's shitty."
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Ed Oscuro
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Post by Ed Oscuro »

Legendary Axe / Ankoko Densetsu is a hybride Mario/Castlevania clone, but Castlevania as a Mario clone...ehh, if anything CV shares more similarity to Dragon Buster (or some other obscure crap platformer)...which is incidentally a Namco game, now that I think of it.

Edit: Dear God, Winback is horrible. At least on the N64 it is. Well, it's horrible and yet I played it for hours in emulation recently. Need to boot it up again and finish the job james
lgb
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Post by lgb »

Bill wrote:
LGB wrote:Hmm... I'd have to disagree. Silent Hill is too much of a Resident Evil clone to start comparing Ninja Gaiden to Castlevania. To be honest, I always considered Castlevania a clone of Mario to an extent. Ninja Gaiden is a good deal different; when you find a boomerang ninja star, a fire wall, or a aerial counter weapon in a NES CV without hacking, call me.
Ninja Gaiden's three basic subweapons are obviously based around Castlevania's, but altered to require less precision and be less punishing if they whiff. Shuriken / Dagger = weak horizontal projectile. Boomerang Star / Cross = stronger returning horizontal projectile, expanded to return both ways. Firewall / Axe = diagonal upward attack, faster and more covering at the expense of no downard arc. Holy Water has no counterpart, but a game as fast as NG has little use for a "roadblock" weapon like that. The stopwatch is relegated to an instant-use item, and invincibility is present too. The Up + B use of the subweapons is another obvious connection. NG's jumping slash is obviously unique, but so are phantom clones and the diagonally-downward / vertically firing subweapons.
I can understand that just fine; heck, Ninja Gaiden even has a life bar similar to CV, but it's just the style used makes it different. It's just as you (or someone) said; Castlevania is more strategic and calculated, whereas Ninja Gaiden is more frantic.

To me, SH is a bit more of a clone to RE than this situation though. But then again, that's a biased opinion.
I really don't know what to make of the Mario / Castlevania connection, at all. Why do you say that?
Jumping.
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