A serious note about Last Hope

Tigershark · Post by **Tigershark** » Wed May 14, 2008 12:42 am

RHE wrote:
Tigershark wrote:It is of course possible that since English is not your first language that something was lost in the translation but the first two sentences are way too preachy for my liking.
I don't think its too preachy. You have to understand that games are meant to be fun so you should do everything to make a game fun. When failing at this, you just can't blame the game. I would hardly enjoy any game with that attitude.

Sorry, I can't let that go without comment.

You seem to be saying two things here; the first is a personal comment about my attitude which I find alarming. I'll not respond to it but just want to note that it's been made.

The second appears to be saying that the game is good, period, and that if anyone thinks the game's bad then it's that person's fault/problem. I must say I find that view a little blinkered.

Zebra Airforce · Post by **Zebra Airforce** » Wed May 14, 2008 12:48 am

It's however rather some kind of philisophy then a statement. Nintendo agrees with me.

All games need controller config, period. What if a player wants to use an arcade stick? It was designed to be played on neogeo, so it should be played with arcade controls, right? Well what if the button config isn't working for the player? Is he supposed to crack his stick open and rewire it because you didn't put a key config in? What if a player's hand is uncomfortable with the setup you chose? Not every person is the same. BTW, nintendo is retarded for having such an idiotic, closeminded view on controller config.

Turrican · Post by **Turrican** » Wed May 14, 2008 12:54 am

Zebra Airforce wrote:BTW, nintendo is retarded for having such an idiotic, closeminded view on controller config.

But, you see, at least they don't do shmups.

nimitz · Post by **nimitz** » Wed May 14, 2008 12:57 am

arguing with RHE is like arguing with a 6 year old kid.

He HAS to be right, even if he knows he's wrong.

(waits for RHE's comeback

)

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Wed May 14, 2008 12:58 am

RHE wrote:
szycag wrote:=== FUN ===
That's completely subjective. I don't know how you think you can define what fun ist. You can only define it to yourself.

RHE wrote:You have to understand that games are meant to be fun so you should do everything to make a game fun. When failing at this, you just can't blame the game.

szycag · Post by **szycag** » Wed May 14, 2008 12:58 am

A serious note about YOUR FACE

Emperor Fossil · Post by **Emperor Fossil** » Wed May 14, 2008 1:43 am

szycag wrote:My definition of inertia is things moving your ship besides your own movement. The first boss, the water in the second level. I guess this is not what other folks regard it as.

Hello, I am a billionaire. My definition of billionaire is someone without very much money. I guess that is not what other folks regard it as.

freddiebamboo · Post by **freddiebamboo** » Wed May 14, 2008 1:49 am

Like cigs, I'd also like to hear about the distribution and selling aspect of Last hope.

Pretty much everything else in this thread is just shit we've been over before.

szycag · Post by **szycag** » Wed May 14, 2008 2:02 am

Emperor Fossil wrote:
szycag wrote:My definition of inertia is things moving your ship besides your own movement. The first boss, the water in the second level. I guess this is not what other folks regard it as.
Hello, I am a billionaire. My definition of billionaire is someone without very much money. I guess that is not what other folks regard it as.

Regarding it in terms outside of shmups, yeah I didn't make any sense. In Twinbee Yahho, for example, there's this part where you're in this sort of dogfight and you're being pushed around by the wind. Just an outside force I guess, non-voluntary movement? Similar parts in this game. I am an idiot though, thanks for pointing that out.

shoe-sama · Post by **shoe-sama** » Wed May 14, 2008 2:25 am

we call that gravity lol

Emperor Fossil · Post by **Emperor Fossil** » Wed May 14, 2008 2:58 am

@szycag: All smartassiness from me aside, I do agree that having external forces act on the player's ship/avatar in shooters is often a bad idea (unless the whole game is built around it, I suppose). I remember one particular bit in Disposable Hero on the Amiga that really stood out in this respect. You get locked in a chamber that has a huge fan at the bottom, forcing you upwards... which mightn't have been so bad if it weren't for the crazy swooping monster bat that's locked in there with you. Chokepoint? It was more like a garrottepoint.

doctorx0079 · Post by **doctorx0079** » Wed May 14, 2008 3:33 am

EDIT: I wrote some crap complaining about Mr. Blobby. It's just the board default. In that context it makes perfect sense.

Seriously, why does it matter so much what a tiny forum like shmups.com says? Is every single sale that precious to you, RHE, or are you just bored and looking for something to do? You really are starting to remind me of Uwe Boll. Although I have to believe Last Hope and DUX are better than his crap.

christuserloeser · Post by **christuserloeser** » Wed May 14, 2008 3:38 am

Not that long ago I played some shmups (can't remember which) and let my brother play for a few minutes. He complained that he couldn't get far and that it would be way too hard, frustrating and no fun.

I asked him which shmups he liked, knowing he would name Thunder Force 4 and Darius 2. Then I could remind him on how many times he sat down and played these games and how hard we tried to get past the first stage in these games without dying... It took us days, weeks, even months to memorize them both in their entirety (and I am pretty sure we used cheats during that time) !

I think people tend to forget how these games work.

shoe-sama · Post by **shoe-sama** » Wed May 14, 2008 3:39 am

hey RHE you should join stgt08 if it ever gets going lol

doctorx0079 · Post by **doctorx0079** » Wed May 14, 2008 3:47 am

I'm starting to think Last Hope is the De Lorean of shmups. Looks cool, but everyone hates to drive it.

I know I'm beating up on a dead game I only played for 5 minutes, but just can't help it thinking RHE could be reading this.

The Coop · Post by **The Coop** » Wed May 14, 2008 5:00 am

I liked Last Hope. Simple, tough, and only a spot or two where you're not sure what in the surroundings killed you. I've 1CCed it, gave a tip or two for it's strategy guide, and still break it out from time to time. Seems I'm in a rather drastic minority though.

Specineff · Post by **Specineff** » Wed May 14, 2008 6:16 am

The reason I can't spend 10 minutes or more on LH is because the game gives you plenty of reasons to throw your controller, TV, system and disc out the window during the first 9 minutes and 59 seconds.

doctorx0079 · Post by **doctorx0079** » Wed May 14, 2008 6:40 am

Well some people do like to drive the De Lorean.

Post by **undamned** » Wed May 14, 2008 6:52 am

doctorx0079 wrote:Looks cool, but everyone hates to drive it.

You just don't understand it.
-ud

Specineff · Post by **Specineff** » Wed May 14, 2008 7:00 am

No, it's just... NO! Bad Spec! Bad! No more memes, no! Bad Spec, bad!

320x240 · Post by **320x240** » Wed May 14, 2008 7:24 am

Most people wrote:It's not my kind of game and I haven't really tried grasping the underlying idea, so naturally I'm entitled to my opinion.

NAVVARR · Post by **NAVVARR** » Wed May 14, 2008 7:25 am

I watched the videos on youtube -the demos of Last Hope and thought- that looks amazing, just the sort of game i've been waiting for for ages.
I even went out and bought a NeoGeo AES so i could play the game.
Then it was released on the Dreamcast, so I bought the LE copy (still sealed) -and a mainstream copy.
I played the dreamcast game for a couple of days and got as far as level 3- where I encountered a couple of wall like enemies- and no real way of getting past them apart from blind luck- or having incredible reflexes - THIS FRUSTATED ME GREATLY.

Anyway, I didn't give up -i watched more youtube videos and to be honest i really liked what I saw and really wanted to get through this game to the end.
Then, i heard about the NeoGeo CD 'improved' version -so I bought a copy of that and set about playing it.
Sure enough, it seems better, more playable- the game though, still seems frustatingly hard -there are still WTF instances when I honestly never knew what killed me.
-But in general, the NeoGeo CD version was better- but still lacking

I feel i've given Last Hope every chance to be the shooter I wanted it to be- unfortunately, it DOES suffer from lack of playtesting, it does suffer from lack of firepower- and it does suffer from having areas that are virtually impossible to navigate past.

Visually its very nice- i love the R-Type like graphics- I love the retro soundtrack and I love the fact it supports the Neo Geo and Dreamcast.

I don't regret buying last hope- i enjoy watching the videos of people beating the game- but unfortunately, there are a lot of shooters out there that are better designed and basically more fun.

shoe-sama · Post by **shoe-sama** » Wed May 14, 2008 7:34 am

lol how much lack of firepower are we talking about btw?

is it like playing gradius with speedups only?

just wondering

NAVVARR · Post by **NAVVARR** » Wed May 14, 2008 7:38 am

I just found the firing rate to be too slow. And the lack of any realy different types of effective weopons meant that there was no real chance for experimentation with different weopons in different situations.

You had the choice to rotate your pod 360 degrees -thats about it really!!

nimitz · Post by **nimitz** » Wed May 14, 2008 7:41 am

is it like playing gradius with speedups only?

I guess not, people complain about how slow the ship is.

maybe playing gradius with no power up, maxed rank and a rotating pod.

shoe-sama · Post by **shoe-sama** » Wed May 14, 2008 7:50 am

lol Prehistoric Isle in 1930

impossible to recover after death

Stormwatch · Post by **Stormwatch** » Wed May 14, 2008 8:34 am

Yeah, I mentioned that before too... is there a name for that? The "pea shooter syndrome"? A challenge is fine; impossible odds are not.

RHE · Post by **RHE** » Wed May 14, 2008 4:31 pm

To the Intertia, which I call gravitiy.

Everytime there's gravitiy in Last Hope you can use it tacticly. The waterfalls in Last Hope will press you down, you can slide down the waterfall to be move more fast to hit a line of enemies. Take a look in the stratagy guide.

Also, R-Type 2 uses gravitiy too.

All games need controller config, period. What if a player wants to use an arcade stick?

It's not about controller config, it's just about button mapping. You have an extremely one-sided opinion about controller config, as it's depending on the game if a game needs it. I don't udnerstand why're playing console games aynway. Console gaming is about plug & play, simple control shemes and simple gaming concepts.

I also like to know why do you feel offended about my opinion?

The second appears to be saying that the game is good, period, and that if anyone thinks the game's bad then it's that person's fault/problem. I must say I find that view a little blinkered.

Didn't I state the opposit of your statement earlier in this thread? It's not about that Last hope is a good game. I'ts just about, that some people here having no approache in understanding and hating the game for the wrong reasons. If they would understand LH better, then they wouldn't hate it so much. Some people just must hate something and LH is the nearest choice.

arguing with RHE is like arguing with a 6 year old kid.

He HAS to be right, even if he knows he's wrong.

(waits for RHE's comeback Rolling Eyes )

Yout comment shows how you have no idea what this topic is about. It's about understanding. Why don't you try to understand me a I'm trying to understand you?

Now about === FUN ===: I play shmups for fun and not for === FUN ===. When I want to have === FUN === I will play Bomberman with some friends. Do you see the difference? Shmups are not === FUN === but they're fun. So nobody can expect === FUN === from Last Hope as not even a Cave game is === FUN ===.

Good old plain Clearly enough?

A serious note about YOUR FACE

This comment shows how you can't deal with other people oppions and suggestions. Very childish.

To Mr. Blobby. Take a look here: http://shmups.system11.org/faq.php?mode=bbcode under quotes. I were just acciedantly forgetting to pout in your name. My bad.

Update, correction of some grammar issues.

Turrican · Post by **Turrican** » Wed May 14, 2008 4:37 pm

RHE wrote:Also, R-Type 2 uses gravitiy too.

With the possible exception of Final (which I love), that must be the most hated R-Type of the whole bunch around these parts.

Not because of inertia, mind you.

RHE · Post by **RHE** » Wed May 14, 2008 4:46 pm

He HAS to be right, even if he knows he's wrong.

Where am I wrong? Explain it to me.

And now to the non-childish stuff in this thread.

RHE, I'd be interested to know a bit about the development of Last Hope. Mainly on the business side.

(also, I'm referring the DC version regarding sales, packaging, pressing discs etc.)

How many copies of the game did you have pressed?

2500 copies. 200 regular and 500 LE.

How much did this cost, and was it an up front investment or paid based on sales?

You will have to ask the publisher this question but the spiencard was very cost-effective and complicated

How many copies have you sold so far?

About 2000 including LE.

What were the various ways you marketed the game (in addition to forum posts), and how much did you spend on marketing, if any?

Again you're better asking the publisher this. Play-Asia is an important factor here.

I'll read as much as you'd like to write about this aspect of releasing the game. Please send me a pm if the forum is too public for you.

Just drop me a message with an some additional questions.