Neon Genesis Evangelion

[LoneSage]

After talking to a huge fan about it yesterday, I caved in and bought the whole Perfect set for $75.

And wow, this is easily the greatest science fiction series I've ever seen. So far I've watched the first 7 episodes.

The English voice acting is good, in fact I prefer it to the Japanese originals (though that VA for the kid who hot Shinji twice sounds stilted). The show itself is amazing; I've seen quite a few references to Christianity, what with all the crosses and allusions and stuff.

I have a theory that either Mr. Ikari implanted Shinji's mom's persona into either EVA 01 or Rei, but I'd rather believe it to be in EVA 01. That can explain why he loves Rei so much, or why the EVA 01 saved Shinji and is in such harmony with him. If I'm right, then don't tell me if I am or not.

Also, Mr. Ikari's a huge asshole. His character can be summed up in one quote of his from the first episode: "We have a spare arriving soon." -- in reference to his son being the next pilot.

Overall, yeah, holy crap...this is just f'n awesome. And Rei is teh sexay.

[roushimsx]

And wow, this is easily the greatest science fiction series I've ever seen. So far I've watched the first 7 episodes.

It takes an extremely sharp nosedive in writing quality after the 19th-20th episode (don't remember). Don't expect the entertainment value to hold up.

Do yourself a favor and check out Planetes whenever you get done with Eva. You'll need some quality sci fi to make up for the abortion that was Eva Really interesting and enjoyable show for a bit, sure... but my god did it burn out. End of Eva wasn't very entertaining, either.

[BulletMagnet]

Heh, be prepared to be very confused once you've watched it enough and are trying to figure out what's really going on...not to mention some rather disturbing moments if you watch the movie. A word of advice: if you try to discuss Eva with a group of fans who have been at it longer than you, listen VERY carefully to what's being said by others before you say anything. Chances are, what you currently think is probably wrong.

[Ghegs]

To echo BM's statement, I've watched through the series two times now (currently on my third run as it's *gasp* being aired over here ) and I still don't have a clear grasp on what's what. And after you think you know what's going on, someone points out something you overlooked and/or you happened to watch End Of Evangelion, you're even more messed up. Which is probably how Anno wanted it.

I'm still loving it.

[shiftace]

I saw the series from about ep. 13 onward in the span of 1 or 2 days. It was pretty, strange, and mostly incomprehensible. Consequently I went and read out of some plot summaries; it still seemed pretty cool even after I understood a good deal of it.

[username]

One, the series makes a drastic change in tone a little past halfway through. It's still good, but it's different.

Two, the ending is... not everyone likes it, and many people hate it. Regardless of how you personally will feel about it, you'll probably want to pick up End of Evangelion, the movie which replaces/overlaps/complements/whatever with the final two episodes of the series.

Three, enjoy. The series, while not flawless, is probably my favorite anime.

[sethsez]

Eva starts as a fun little giant robot show with some blatant (and somewhat trite) symbolism.

Then, about halfway through, it starts to change. By the end it's a faux-artsy mess, with an ambition that's clearly far beyond the actual talent involved. It ends like a bad student film, filled to the brim with "mysterious" symbolism and "shocking" twists. And, as happens all too often, it makes the fatal mistake of assuming that angst is deep (though this is true for the entire series, it really comes into sharp relief at the end).

I love a good mindfuck when it's pulled off properly and abhor it when it's botched. Anyone want to guess where I fell on this series?

[crithit5000]

I was just thinking of starting an Eva thread here the other day...I've watched lots of anime throughout the years, and Evangelion still stands as my favorite series ever, and the movies are probably my favorite too. Just wait til you hit later episodes, LoneSage (especially when you hit around epsidode 18 I think...)...it's a complete mind fuck and emotional overload. Just prepared to be confused for a good portion of it, as backstory and such are revealed more towards the end.

[MSZ]

Rahxephon is a better series IMO.

Similar storyline...but much better ending.

People who watched it know what I am talking about.

[U K Narayan]

Evangelion is fascinating the first time through, the second time you'll be picking it apart. When you watch it after that, the fascination effect wears off.

The English dubbing sucks, infact, it's one of the worst dubbings I've heard, it'll start making sense when you get to the later episodes; Shinji's monologues are devoid of true emotion in the dubbing.

After watching the series in Japanese, I'll never go back, it's 10x more emotional than that English crap.

Rahxephon is a better series IMO.

Similar storyline...but much better ending.

People who watched it know what I am talking about.

It's cool how RahXephon tries to rip Evangelion in so many ways.

[Stormowl]

Then, about halfway through, it starts to change. By the end it's a faux-artsy mess, with an ambition that's clearly far beyond the actual talent involved. It ends like a bad student film, filled to the brim with "mysterious" symbolism and "shocking" twists. And, as happens all too often, it makes the fatal mistake of assuming that angst is deep (though this is true for the entire series, it really comes into sharp relief at the end).

this pretty much sums up how i feel about anime in general these days. every time someone points out a "good" anime, it's just another botched mess. i've given up on the genre.

[LoneSage]

Oh yeah, forgot to add in my original post.
On the box, I saw what appeared to be Latin writings since I saw the words 'son' and 'sheep' is all I could translate of it. Then I went to my old Latin teacher this morning with what I wrote down of the writings and asked him to see if he knew what they meant.

Elozh Spi Sane
Elahim (L)ibar tilius
Icho uz Joha oth
Elohim Sebaoth

Apparently they're in Hebrew.

He doesn't know much Hebrew (even though the old man can speak Greek fluently and whatnot), but he did know that Elohim means God and that Sebaoth is possibly Sabbath.

[MSZ]

t's cool how RahXephon tries to rip Evangelion in so many ways.

Oh yes, even Izubuchi himself admited it. I don't mind if people call it a rip-off. IMO the story, characters, mecha designs, animations and the soundtrack are all better than Evangelion. Except the movie which is a major blow.

My 2 cents.

[LoneSage]

I also felt satisfied with myself last night when I knew what the CGT readings were before Ritsuko explained what they were from the Angels, thank you 9th grade biology for teaching me what cyanine, guanine and thyamine were.

Watched episodes 8-14 tonight.

Never a dull moment in the series except for episode 14, which was for the first ten minutes a recap of all the Angels shown thus far. Asuka’s a funny character; expounds her jealousy of Rei and suppresses her love for Shinji.

The 02 unit ‘s first battle at sea was badass, my favorite yet. Big ole smile crossed my face when I saw the Eva land on that destroyer ship after the Angel exploded.

I’ve yet to see Shinji as a whiny character; however, I see much of myself in him…
Rei is so goddamn enigmatic.
And that opening theme song is getting to me, I’m starting to unravel a few of the lyrics meanings’.

Oh yeah, I also talked to a Korean girlfriend of mine at school today, turns out she has the Evangelion series and asked me if I wanted to see The End of Evangelion with her when I’m through with the series. Double score because she’s the postergirl of what every anime guy wants an anime fangirl to look like; actually beautiful and intelligent, one of the brightest at me school. I think I’ll take her up on that offer.

[sethsez]

I’ve yet to see Shinji as a whiny character

Wait

[Specineff]

Stay away from end of Eva. It will make you feel like your mind was raped, and you couldn't even at least climax while at it.

(Sorry. I'm missing at least 18 hours of sleep at this moment.)

[U K Narayan]

I’ve yet to see Shinji as a whiny character

Wait

Not only is he a whiny bitch, but he's a masochist as well.

[BulletMagnet]

The writing you saw on the cover might've been on the superimposed "Tree of Life" image, if it's the cover I think you're talking about...it's some kind of a symbol of Kabbalist Judaism, it's supposed to lay out the path to God or some such thing. Then again it could be one of the Psalms or something like that, I'd have to know which image you're referring to.

I also must put forth a warning or two for the movie, whenever you decide to see it...some confusing and disturbing stuff therein, so don't expect a "That was SO cool!!" kind of experience.

[sethsez]

If you're wondering what the movie's actually LIKE...

Imagine David Lynch decided to make a cartoon after reading the Bible, losing most of his talent, and watching Waking Life one too many times. Gotta respect the ambition, but the execution absolutely falls short of what the idea requires. There's a fine line between genius and pretentious, and End of Eva doesn't just cross it, it does a goddamned sprint past it.

Some nifty visuals, though.

[IlMrm]

The 02 unit ‘s first battle at sea was badass, my favorite yet. Big ole smile crossed my face when I saw the Eva land on that destroyer ship after the Angel exploded.

Oh hell yeah. It's a shame it wasn't that detailed in the comic.

That's the only time you'll see Russian planes on a US carrier.

[Pastel Maelstrom]

If you're wondering what the movie's actually LIKE...

Imagine David Lynch decided to make a cartoon after reading the Bible, losing most of his talent, and watching Waking Life one too many times. Gotta respect the ambition, but the execution absolutely falls short of what the idea requires. There's a fine line between genius and pretentious, and End of Eva doesn't just cross it, it does a goddamned sprint past it.

Some nifty visuals, though.

... So self-destruction and twisting fear damning a main character and the only one he could drag down with him has been done elsewhere, better? Fans of Spider Robinson's short fiction are forbidden from answering that, by the way.

[sethsez]

... So self-destruction and twisting fear damning a main character and the only one he could drag down with him has been done elsewhere, better?

...it's a pretty typical theme for a drama, yes. In fact, it's so common that we even have a term for it: "downward spiral"

[Pastel Maelstrom]

... So self-destruction and twisting fear damning a main character and the only one he could drag down with him has been done elsewhere, better?

...it's a pretty typical theme for a drama, yes. In fact, it's so common that we even have a term for it: "downward spiral"

Shinji started the story the way he is at the end. He tries to pretend that he's something he's not for a while, is all. Okay, yeah, Cassady from Preacher is kinda like him, so is one of the protagonists from No One Wants To Be Lonely (the Spider Robinson story I alluded to)... I think about it more and it's not so original. But it's not a downward spiral, really. And I didn't find anything in Evangellion to be as arbitrary or nonsensical as you make it out to be. Well, the TV ending was completely artificial, but outside of that...
And none of this has anything to do with the big Pastel Maelstrom thumbs up I give End of Evangellion just for not being nice.

[sethsez]

Well, for one thing I find most of Evangelion's Christian allusions to be just as shallow and pointless as allusions to "eastern religions" are in western films. I don't take offense to it (I'm an atheist) but it certainly doesn't ring true for me, and seems to be windowdressing more than anything.

Now, outside of that, the series has two endings. There's the TV series ending, which as you said is artificial (though I actually think it's the better of the two). Then there's End of Eva, which is an artistic blunder on the level of David Lynch's Twin Peaks: Fire Walk With Me. Aside from having no real reason to exist, the sole reason it seems to have been made is to piss all over everything that had been established by the series up to that point (and I've heard that was actually the director's intent). Yes, it's audacious, but if you want a movie that's audacious and avoids a cliched happy ending, just pick up a random Criterion DVD and there's a good chance it will meet your needs.

It takes balls to pull the rug out from under the audience in the final act. It takes talent to still make it feel like a real, valid ending. EoE, unfortunately, is only halfway there.

[crithit5000]

Well, for one thing I find most of Evangelion's Christian allusions to be just as shallow and pointless as allusions to "eastern religions" are in western films. I don't take offense to it (I'm an atheist) but it certainly doesn't ring true for me, and seems to be windowdressing more than anything.

Gainax has stated many times that the Christian/Jewish elements of Evangelion were used to 'look cool' and set the series apart from most anime series. It feels like windowdressing because it is.

Now, outside of that, the series has two endings.

I really can't go into this as much as I'd like (don't feel like spoiling it for those who haven't seen everything plus there's way too much to type if I did), but both endings do go along with each other (there's even short glimpses of scenes from EoE in episodes 25 and 26).

[BulletMagnet]

Well, for one thing I find most of Evangelion's Christian allusions to be just as shallow and pointless as allusions to "eastern religions" are in western films.

That's actually been confirmed by the creators: I don't have a link or anything, but I know that someone or other from Gainax has said straight out that the Christian symbols and such are only there to "look cool," and make the series seem more "mystical" to a Japanese audience, in the same manner as Eastern religious allusions in "local" stuff. He also said that they might have reconsidered that if they'd known Eva was going to make it West.

Now, outside of that, the series has two endings.

Actually, when you analyze them, the evidence seems to say that the two endings represent the same events, and are just different "interpretations." As to why this was even done, read on...

Aside from having no real reason to exist, the sole reason it seems to have been made is to piss all over everything that had been established by the series up to that point (and I've heard that was actually the director's intent).

This is untrue. The script for EoE was actually how Anno originally intended to end the series, and it was written far in advance of the movie's release (the two halves of EoE are even titled as "Episodes 25' and 26'"). However, while the TV series was being made, near the end the budget had been just about used up and deadlines were looming, so Anno ditched the EoE script and tossed up the cost-saving "TV Ending" instead; you can see evidence of the budget troubles earlier in the series too, such as the lengthy still shots where nothing happens for a long time. However, after Eva's marketing blitz brought in a truckload of new cash, Anno decided to go back and release the "original" final 2 episodes as a movie and finish the series "proper." Whether you prefer the TV or movie ending is your own preference, but Anno didn't intend the latter to serve simply as a way to mess with the fans; it was his original vision for the end of the series, from the beginning.

[sethsez]

Well, if Anno intended the Christian elements as windowdressing, that doesn't make me like that fact any less.

And yes, I know both endings represent the same events. However, they are told very differently.

Finally, if he did intend that to be the ending from the very beginning, then I won't accuse him of fucking wih the fans. I'll still accuse him of having a bad sense of pacing and lacking the talent to pull off an ending like that convincingly, however.

[judesalmon]

Aren't the TV ending and EoE ending different? In each Shinji makes a different choice.

It years since I watched the series, so don't quote me.

[Specineff]

Whether you prefer the TV or movie ending is your own preference, but Anno didn't intend the latter to serve simply as a way to mess with the fans; it was his original vision for the end of the series, from the beginning.

And for that he should be lynched by a mob of angry fursuiters armed with plushes and Laserdiscs of All Dogs Go to Heaven and Watership Down.

Jerk. (Anno, that is. Not you.)

[BulletMagnet]

Aren't the TV ending and EoE ending different? In each Shinji makes a different choice.

You've got to listen carefully to what's said in the TV ending, but Shinji still ends up deciding that he prefers real pain to false pleasure...I believe that ADV's half-witted translations of some of the dialogue have contributed to the confusion on this one.