Are these games good purchases?

[Moogs]

As for Genesis ports that were better than SNES ones, look no further than Earthworm Jim. Not only was the SNES version missing a level, but it also had less voice samples. Go figure.

In the end, the SNES was my console for platformers and RPGs, whereas the Genesis gave me my fix of shooters and action games. The SNES was not designed with high speed/action games in mind. If you ask me, it was the first example of Nintendo creating hardware based around the games THEY created, everyone else outside their walls was just going to have to work around it.

Good lord.

How's that for a first post?

Snes being the first console based on the games they created: hmm, no. Why, the Famicom was built with something else in mind? The Snes came years after the Megadrive. Of course it was more powerful, and it was built to do the best "Dragon Quest" possible with the best music possible... Because in Japan, a Dragon Quest / Final Fantasy OST sells more than any shmup.

Exactly. That's kind of what I was hinting at, but I was also saying that Nintendo themselves really aren't known for pumping out manic-style action games that would require a speedy processor, or at least they weren't known for it at the time.

I guess my claim more or less gravitates toward the N64, GC, and DS - more specifically the way they control. Nintendo designed the controllers for these consoles without really taking conventional gaming into consideration, i.e.: games that require immediate access to all available buttons if need be (how useless was the L button on the N64 controller? Seriously.). The GC controller wasn't designed with fighters in mind, and the DS sure as hell wasn't designed for developers who want to just make a straight up, normal game without being chastised for not using the DS to its full potential. Whatever that may be.

However, this thread has gotten way off topic. I don't intend to derail it any more than it already has been.

[Guest]

Heh...weak next to about everything except Mega Man X. What did you do, just copy weak to your clipboard and paste it a few dozen times. I'd really like to know your definition of weak if you think Contra 3 was weak compared to Hard Corps. Contra 3 was an innovative game that took full advantage of the SNES' playfield rotation ability. Contra Hard Corps is your average 2D side-scrolling shooter with nothing particularly special about it. Oh wait, there's those rear view modes, though I'm positive the SNES could have done those. SNES could have handled Hard Corps. Genesis could not have handled Contra 3.

Street Fighter 2, Turbo, Super, etc. - awesome, but super turbo on saturn is better easily. these are ported to genesis too.

By the time Super Turbo came out the whole Street Fighter series was starting to get really dumb. Comparing a Saturn port of a later sequel in an SNES vs. Genesis discussion doesn't have much relevance, does it?

Somebody mentioned the SNES "choking" on a few games. From my experience, the only games I've seen the SNES really CHOKE on are Gradius 3 and Doom. Neither game was ported to Genesis AT ALL. What does that tell you.

Genesis choked on many a game itself. Mortal Kombat 2 comes to mind.

Despite the fact that it makes your weak games list, as does every other top SNES title, Jurassic Park for SNES was an innovative game, that featured a combination of an overhead scrolling mode and a first-person shooter mode. Jurassic Park for Genesis was about the most average 2D sidescroller in history. There aren't any first-person shooters on the Genesis, are there? So much for that killer processor that runs circles around the SNES.

You say you've never played TMNT Tournament Fighters, another game that was ported to both the SNES and Genesis. If you had, you would know that it happens to be another prime example of a game that was top notch on the SNES and the Genesis version was a second rate piece of crap.

I remember when Genesis first came out, and Altered Beast was supposed to be the game that really showed how much more powerful the Genesis was than the NES, etc. Isn't it funny that the flagship game for the Genesis is a godawful piece of shit game.

Mega Man 7....good, but it's on the newer consoles now

I'm sorry, but that has nothing to do with anything.

Everything I say is my opinion, either love it or hate it, it makes no difference to me.

Donkey Kong Country(the first one only) If you like this, you are a 16-bit graphics whore.....sad

Do you think that maybe, just MAYBE it's possible that somebody could have a reason for liking the game other than its graphics. Some of you people keep quoting me on things I've never said. I haven't mentioned the fact that the SNES dominated the Genesis in terms of graphics, even once, so you can't quote me on something I never said. I like Donkey Kong Country because it is a solid game, all the way around. The gameplay, control, level design, soundtrack, and overall feel of the game are all top notch. That's why I like it.

Not OMG IT HAS GOOD GRAFIX LOOOOL

[Moogs]

I'd really like to know your definition of weak if you think Contra 3 was weak compared to Hard Corps. Contra 3 was an innovative game that took full advantage of the SNES' playfield rotation ability.

Although one could argue, like I'm about to, that the search-and-destroy overhead levels in Contra III detracted from what would have been an otherwise stellar game. Had the GBA port of Contra III not been so shoddily squeezed in to fit the lower resolution of that little screen, I would've called that the definitive Contra for integrating levels from both Contra III and Hard Corps.

Somebody mentioned the SNES "choking" on a few games. From my experience, the only games I've seen the SNES really CHOKE on are Gradius 3 and Doom. Neither game was ported to Genesis AT ALL. What does that tell you.

By "choking" I meant excessive slowdown, which can be witnessed in practically every shooter on the SNES, with two of the biggest offenders being one you already mentioned, Gradius III, and Super R-Type. I'd wager my entire gaming collection that both games would have played on the Genesis with nary a hint of slowdown. I think you mentioned Super Double Dragon being one of the SNES' flagship games, and that one right there is a prime example of the SNES choking; the game is in a constant state of slow motion. And, for whatever reason, the only time the game speeds up is during the mosaic fade-outs.

From what I can tell, you keep pointing out the Mode 7 aspects of certain SNES games as innovative, and while that could be true in some cases, for the most part Mode 7 was employed in games just cos it was there. This may cause an even bigger debate, but I think the Genesis' processor was a lot more flexible than the hardwired routines of the SNES'. Mode 7 was limited to backgrounds, which is why whenever you fought a boss that zoomed and/or rotated all over the place, it took place on a solid coloured screen; the boss WAS the background.

Man, this is awesome. I haven't had a conversation about consoles like this in like 12 years or so.

[Dartagnan1083]

...I like Donkey Kong Country because it is a solid game, all the way around. The gameplay, control, level design...

Even if it's just your opinion this reason enough for me to stop nursing this thread. I found the gamplay to be blah, the controls slippery, and the level design to be bland and uninspired.
And since you didn't attack my stance on the Street Fighters, I think you understand my reasoning enough.


My point with MM7 was that it's presence on the aniversary collection makes it less of a reason to own the SNES now. I was under the impression that we were talking about retro-gaming in the present.

There ARE 1st person shooters on the Genesis (Zero Tollerance and CyberCop /Corporation come to mind), Cybercop/Corporation sucked, but ZT is said to be ok. Not much can be said for the glitch ridden ports of Doom, Noah's ark, and Wolfenstein.

[BrianC]

I thought the overhead levels in Contra III were a nice change of pace and quite a bit of fun. Rotating them is innovative and fun IMO. I also love Hard Corps. The different characters with different weapons and the level design rock. Contra Hard Corps also pulls off some amazing graphical effects for the Genesis. However, the GBA Contra III shoulds like it lazily mixes the hard corps levels into Contra III. The second level was replaced is a later Hard Corps level? That's just lame. From what I heard, the GB b/w Contra III does a better job of making Contra III portable, even if it is still toned down a bit.

Dartagnan1083, please stop nersing the thread with DKC arguments. I get the impression that you are trying to force people to dislike DKC. Just becuase you found the game to be uninspired, doesn't meant that everyone else has to. Also, it's a argument you won't win.

BTW, the MMAC version of Mega Man 7 is missing part of the ending. I think that may be reason enough to go with the SNES one instead.

oh yeah, there is a Europe only Duke Nukem 3D for the Genesis. I don't know much about it, though.

[Dartagnan1083]

I'm not really forcing anyone to dislike DKC. . .
Perhaps just overdriving my opinion, which fits in line with others elsewhere. I'll just leave it alone from now on.

I wasn't aware of the MM7 ending being fragmented. Which probably explains why there was next to nothing on the fate of Bass when I finished it.
Even then, the rest of the game is intact, and few more snippets won't quite convice me to pick up another version. There are plenty of good games with crappy endings anyway.

[CMoon]

Intellivision >> Atari

[Neon]

The processor in my Xbox is 730 mhz faster than the SNES. It is superior in every way.

[Neon]

The processor in my Xbox is 730 mhz faster than the SNES. It is superior in every way.

[Turrican]

You like to blow on the fire of these naive console wars, don't you Neon?

[Nemo]

Here's the bottom line, both the Snes and Genesis have great platformers, but where the Genesis excels in shooters, the Snes excels in Bemups and Rpgs. So if you can't acknowledge the quality of both systems you're a clown.

[Rob]

Genesis wins the bemups.

[Ganelon]

I agree. I find Bare Knuckle/Streets of Rage 2 & 3 better than Final Fight 1-3, Captain Commando, Sonic Blast Man 2, Sailor Moon, Alien vs. Predator, Knights of the Round, and countless more any day. I'm serious.

There's nothing to day about the systems other than what the specs tell us. Genesis wins clock speed, SNES wins everything else. All this arguing over pure opinion is just plain idiocy.

[Neon]

You like to blow on the fire of these naive console wars, don't you Neon?

I'm almost through with school for the year, intellectual thought is furthest from my mind at this point.

NES > Master System, btw.

[Dartagnan1083]

Stupid Neon
OdesseyII > all

I putting a limit onto this discussion.
Sorta similar to "never trust anything that bleeds for 5 days and doesn't die"

[ST Dragon]

Thunder Spirits is not a TF3 port. It's the TF AC port from the arcade.
It combines some levels from TFIII & TFII.

The graphics & music are similar but nothing special for SNES standards.
The SNES verison suffers from heavy slowdowns especially if you enable auto fire.

Darius Twin has some cool Animal-Mecha & lot of colours & the classic Darius gameplay.
If you like the Darius series you'll like this.

For 7$ I would say they're worth it especilly Darius Twin.
The Japanese Thunder Spirits for SNES also has a nice cover if that interests you.

[Guest]

I agree this conversation has gotten old. I believe I accomplished what I set out to do, which is to make a case for the SNES among all the SNES bashing and Genesis marking.

I also agree both systems have their advantages. I don't hate Genesis, I just prefer SNES. Sega gets props for genius marketting and innovative expansion features, like Sega CD, 32X, etc.

One last thing

PONG > ALL

PONG OWNZ J00

Okay...I'm done.

[Rob]

I believe I accomplished what I set out to do, which is to make a case for the SNES among all the SNES bashing and Genesis marking.

Or made SNES fans seem highly agitated.

[TVG]

dark saibot: you're an idiot.

[Nemo]

Genesis wins the bemups.

Lies! All the Genesis has is Streets 1 and 2, and TMNT. The Snes has Final fight 2 and 3, King of Dragons, Knights of the Round, Ninja Warriors Again, TMNT, and Super Double Dragon.

[Turrican]

Lies! All the Genesis has is Streets 1 and 2, and TMNT. The Snes has Final fight 2 and 3, King of Dragons, Knights of the Round, Ninja Warriors Again, TMNT, and Super Double Dragon.

Yes, but since SOR2 is the best of all those you mentioned...

[Dartagnan1083]

IMO

Super Double Dragon - not worth the plastic that encases it.

Turtles in Time - Great

Final Fight 3 - Not bad, but not remarkable

Knights of The Round - *thumbs up*

Sonic Blast Man - Don't really know...but I hear it's good.


Here's a feature written by Melf...take it for what you will.
It's actually quite thorough and fair. . .even if he's a bit harsh on GROWL.

http://www.sega-16.com/Feature-%20Beat- ... onanza.htm

[Turrican]

If you can forgive the fact that it's 1player only Snes' Batman Returns is a very good one.

[Dartagnan1083]

Both systems easily have their merits with Beat-em-ups.

But with The Streets of Rage series, Golden-Axe series, and Splatterhouse 3 exclusive to the Genny. . .it gets my favor quite easily.

[captain ahar]

someone mentioned Killer Instinct. that came out when i wasn't really playing games, more watching my brother play them. he loved Killer Instinct and i did too, but its funny looking back and realizing it's lack of balance verged on hyperbole. same with Clayfighter.

[zinger]

Genesis wins clock speed, SNES wins everything else. All this arguing over pure opinion is just plain idiocy.

You're forgetting the best part about MD (hardware-wise), the YM2612! Hell, the SFC sounchip pales in comparison.

[Guest]

dark saibot: you're an idiot.

o_O

What prompts this random insult? If you're going to insult me, at least provide a reason to back it up, rather than just posting a message that consists of a single line with poor punctuation where all you do is insult somebody, you just make yourself look like a n00b.

One last thing I wanted to add about Super Double Dragon, I know the pace is a bit slow at times, but of course the pace in the previous Double Dragon games was not exactly demon speed, either. I would say the pace in Double Dragon 1-3 varies from slow to moderate, as the gameplay is really more slow and methodical and requires a bit more strategy than button mashing. Whether or not you prefer this gameplay style is entirely up to you.

I also have Batman Returns. For some reason, that game reminds me of Final Fight alot...the whole feel of the game is reminiscent of Final Fight. Though, I usually only play the game for a good laugh, as the baddies in the game just run right up to you and stand in front of your face and wait fore you to punch them.

[ST Dragon]

I say the SNES is the better console:

SNES
=====
Had the best graphics of the 3 as it could produce the most colours on screen (256) & the best scaling & rotation effects.
Also had best music produced by the cool sony spc700 sound chip set.
But had the slowest CPU (only 3.6MHZ) of the 3 consoles resulting in heavy slowdowns in some games, especially in Thunder Spirits, where as Thunder Force III on the Genesis was perfect. Rocket Night Adventures 2 on the SNES was as fast if not faster than the Genesis version though.
Some games on the SNES looked absolutely stunning compared to the Genesis & PCE.
(Mortal Kombat, Donkey Kong Country, Axelay, etc...)

PCE
====
Not a true 16bit console as it had two 8-Bit CPUs at 3.6MHZ each & a 16-Bit GPU.
Technically had the 2nd best graphics as it could produce 256 colours on screen, but had a lower colour palette (512 colours) compared to the SNES 32000 colour palette, thus games didn't look as "Live" & "crisp" as they did on the SNES.
Not many games on the PCE utilized all 256 colours though. Few that I think they did were: Street Fighter II, Strip Fighter II, Parodius, After Burner & maybe even Magical Chase & Twin Bee, but not counting SuperGrafX games. Probably the two 8-bit CPUs & the 8K Main RAM was bottle necking the system.
Also Because of it's low Main RAM only 8K! Games were not as detailed as on the Genesis & SNES, sprites had less frames & less background layers.
The music was the worse of the 3 consoles as it could only produce 6 stereo channels.

Genesis
======
Was the fastest of the 3 as it had a 68000 CPU at 7.6MHZ
Had the worse graphics of the 3 consoles. Being able to produce only 64 colours on screen out of 512 colour palette, this was the systems “Achilles’ Heel”
Games were fairly detailed though with quite a few frames of animation for the sprites & backgrounds.
Music was better than PCE but could not touch the SNES music.

Most games that were released on all 3 consoles generally looked quite worse on the Genesis compared to the PCE & SNES. (example Street Fighter II)


Also how many games on the PCE (Not SuperGrafX & DUO) actually utilized all 256 colours on screen?
The only ones I think they did are:

Street Fighter II
Strip Fighter II
Parodius
After Burner
& maybe even Magical Chase & Detana Twin Bee.

But I'm not sure...?

And these are the best games for the 3 consoles imo:

SNES
=======

Alien 3
Arabian Knights
Area 88 - U.N. Squadron
Axelay
Bahamut Lagoon
Batman Returns
Batman Revenge of the Joker
Battletoads & Double Dragon - The Ultimate Team
Black Thorne
CastleVania - Vampire's Kiss
Contra III - The Alien Wars
Cho Jikuu Yosai Macross
Choplifter 3
Chrono Trigger
Cutthroat Island
Cybernator
Darius Twin
Darius Force
Demon's Crest
Death & Return of Superman
Doom
Doom Troopers
Donkey Kong Country
Donkey Kong Country 2
Donkey Kong Country 3
Donald Duck - Maui Mallard in Cold Shadow
Firemen, The
Gokujyou Parodius (J)
Gourmet Sentai Bara Yarou
Gradius III
Hagane
Iron Commando - Kotetsu no Senshi
Jim Powers - The Lost Dimension 3D
Jikkyou Oshaberi Parodius (J)
Joe and Mac - Caveman Ninja
Joe and Mac - Caveman Ninja 3
Final Fight
Final Fight 2
Final Fight 3
First Samurai
Flintstones, The
Flintstones, The - The Treasure of Sierra Madrock
F-Zero
Front Mission
Front Mission 2 - Gun Hazard (J)
King of Dragons, The
Legend of The Mystical Ninja
Lost Vikings 2
Mortal Kombat 1
Mortal Kombat 2
Mortal Kombat 3
Mega Man 7
Mega Man X
Mega Man X2
Mega Man X3
Metal Warriors
Mr. Nutz
Musya
Ninja Warriors Again
Parodius Da! Shinwa kara Owarai he (J)
Pirates of Dark Water
Pocky & Rocky
Pocky & Rocky 2
Pop 'N' Twinbee
Realm
Rendering Ranger R2 (J)
Rockman & Forte
R-Type 3
Run Saber
Secret of Evermore
Secret of Mana
Shin Kidoesenki Gundam Wing - Endless Duel
Shin Nekketsu Kouha Kunio tachi no Bannka
Sparkster
Spriggan Powered
Street Fighter II
Street Fighter Alpha II
Super Adventure Island
Super Adventure Island II
Super Bonk
Super Castlevania IV
Super Ghouls 'N Ghosts
Super Genjin 2 (J)
Super Mario All-Stars & World
Super Metroid
Super R-Type
Super Shadow of the Beast
Super Star Wars Series
Super Street Fighter 2 - The New Challengers
Super SWIV
Super Turrican
Super Turrican 2
Super Valis IV
Tales of Phantasia
Teenage Mutant Hero Turtles IV - Turtles in Time
Terranigma
Tiny Toons Adventures - Buster Busts Loose!
Universal Soldier
Wild Guns (U)
Wolf Child
X-Men Mutant Apocalypse
Yoshi's Island
Zelda 3
Zool





GENESIS
=========


Aero Blasters
After Burner II
After Burner 32X
Arrow Flash
Alien Soldier
Alisia Dragoon
Altered Beast
Battletoads
Batman - Adventures of Batman & Robin
Batman - Revenge of the Joker
Battletoads & Double Dragon - The Ultimate Team
Blackthorne 32X
Blades of Vengence
Bubsy
Bubsy 2
Castlevania - Bloodlines
Comix Zone
Contra 4 - Hard Corps
Cutthroat Island
Doom Troopers
Death & Return of Superman
Ecco 1
Ecco 2
ESWAT Cyber Police - City Under Siege
Eliminate Down
Fire Shark
G-Loc Air Battle
Galaxy Force II
Gaiares
Generations Lost
Golden Axe
Golden Axe 2
Golden Axe 3
Ghouls & Ghosts
Gley Lancer
Gunstar Heroes (U)
Gynoug - wings of Wor
Heavy Unit
Hokuto no Ken 2
Insector X
Jewel Master
Jim Power - The Arcade Game
Kolibri 32X
Kyuukyou Tiger
Lost Vikings
Kujaku-Oh 2 - Peacock King |
Mystic Defender |---> Same
Mega SWIV
Mega Turrican
Mick & Mack as the Global Gladiators
Mickey Mouse - Fantasia
Mickey Mouse - Castle of Illusion
Mortal Kombat 1
Mortla Kombat 2
Mortal Kombat 3
Mr. Nutz
M.U.S.H.A
Ninja Gaiden
Phantasy Star Series
Pirates of Dark Waters
Puggsy
Raiden Trad
Red Zone
Revenge of Shinobi
Risky Woods
Ristar the Shooting Star
Rocket Knight Adventures
Rocket Knight Adventures 2
Shinobi 3 - Return of the Ninja Master
Soleil
Sonic 1
Sonic 2
Sonic 3
Sonic and Knuckles & Sonic 3
Space Harrier II
Splatter House 2
Splatter House 3
Streets of Rage
Streets of Rage 2
Streets of Rage 3
Story of Thor
Strider
Super Shinobi 2
Super Street Fighter 2 - The New Challengers
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles - The Hyperstone Heist
Thunder Blade
Thunder Force Series
Tiny Toons - Buster's Hidden Treasure
Toki - Going Ape Spit
Truxton
Turrican
Twin Cobra
Two Crude Dudes
Valis Series
Vectorman
Vectorman 2
Wonder Boy IV (U)
Wolf Child
Zero Wing

SEGA MEGA CD
--------------

After Burner 3
Android Assault - The Revenge of Bari-Arm
Earnest Evans (U)
Lunar Series
Lords of Thunder
Robo Aleste
Sonic CD (U)(920)
Sol Feace


PC-Engine / TurboGrafX-16
==========================


1941 Counter Attack (SGX)
Aero Blasters
After Burner II
Air Zonk
Aldynes (SGX)
Bonk's Adventure
Bonk's Revenge
Bonk 3 - Bonk's Big Adventure
Blazing Lazers - Gunhed
Coryoon Child of Dragon
Dai Makai Mura (SGX)
Detana!! Twinbee
Gradius
Heavy Unit
Hyperdyne Sidearms (J)
Jackie Chan's Action Kung Fu (U)
Kyuukyoku Tiger
Legendary Axe, The (U)
Liquid Kids (J)
Magical Chase
Neutopia II (U)
New Adventure Island (U)
Ninja Gaiden (J)
Ninja Spirit (U)
Operation Wolf (J)
Parodius (J)
Parasol Stars (U)
Raiden
R-Type Complete
Rabio Lepus Special (J)
Salamander
Shinobi
Soldier Blade (U)
Splatterhouse
Street Fighter II
Strip Fighter II
Super Star Soldier
Tatsujin - Truxton
Tenseiryu Saint Dragon (J)
Tiger Road
Tiger Shark (J) - Daisenpuu (J)
Turrican
Valkyrie no Densetsu
Wonderboy in Monsterland (J)

PCE DUO
=========
Ai Chou aniki
Akumajyou Dracula X - chi no rondo (j)
Bonk 3 - Bonk's Big Adventure CD (u)
Chou Aniki (j)
Cotton - Fantastic Night Dreams (u)
Gate of Thunder (j)
Gradius II - Gofer No Yabou (j)
Kaze Kiri - Ninja Action (J)
Lords of Thunder (u)
Macross 2036 (j)
R-Type Complete CD (J)
Sapphire - Ginga Fukei Densetsu (j)
Shadow of the Beast (u)
Spriggan Serei Senshi - Summer Carnival '91 (J)
Super Darius 2 (j)
Super Raiden (J)
The Legend of Xanadu
The Legend of Xanadu II
Valis Series
Zero Wing

[Dartagnan1083]

Sparkster on the SNES was a completely different game than Sparkster on the Genesis.

and you're missing a few titles for the systems.
You're also forgeting that there are some people that prefer the Genesis version of Ys III over the others (has to do with the quality of the port)
here's a site with an explaination
So there are more elements involved with ports than just the amount of colors and clock-speed.

Nothing wrong with prefering the SNES, just bringing to light other possible factors.

[zinger]

@ ST Dragon;
Make that 128 colors from a 512 color palette (MD/GEN).