Einhander

[Moleculoman]

This is a continuation of the Einhander score thread originally started by Icarus. I'll now be handling updates for scores. Thanks!

In addition to scores, if you'd like to provide your Evaluation scores (S-E)
those are welcome as well. Just take a snapshot/screenshot, and upload it. Then post the url for inclusion.

Please post up scores in the format.

**Fighter Legend**

EN2(Endymion FRS Mk.II),
EN3(Endymion FRS Mk.III),
AS1(Astraea FGA Mk.I),
AS2(Astraea FGA Mk.II)
SCB(Schabe)

DIFFICULTY*
Score - Name - Stage - Ship Type - GUNPOD** - [JPN or US]

An Example score post would look like this:

NORMAL DIFFICULTY
9,079,190 - Icarus - 4 - EN2 - FLASH - [JPN]

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

JAPANESE VERSION


NORMAL DIFFICULTY
NO STARTING GUNPOD (DEFAULT)

TOP 40,058,120 - Kiken - 7 - EN2

2. 33,154,140 - Moleculoman - 7 - AS1
3....



NORMAL DIFFICULTY
STARTING GUNPOD = CUSTOM SELECTION

TOP 50,901,500 - Moleculoman - 7 - AS1 - RIOT/FLASH

2. 29,996,240 - Carmen - 7 - AS1 - JUNO/RIOT
3. 10,046,070 - AOTD3025 - 5 - EN2 - FLASH
4. 2,703,660- zoydo - 3 - EN


HARD DIFFICULTY
NO STARTING GUNPOD (DEFAULT)

TOP 34,965,310 - Maucast - 7 - EN2

2. 10,789,760 - Moleculoman - 5 - AS1
3. ...



HARD DIFFICULTY
STARTING GUNPOD = CUSTOM SELECTION

TOP 78,151,620 - Moleculoman - 7 - AS2 - CANNON/FLASH

2. 12,673,820 - AOTD3025 - 4 - EN2 - FLASH
3. 10,051,310 - Carmen - 4 - AS1 - JUNO/RIOT
4. ...



- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

AMERICAN VERSION


NORMAL DIFFICULTY
NO STARTING GUNPOD (DEFAULT)

TOP 25,751,030 - Moleculoman- 7 - AS1

2. 22,809,920 - Kollision - 7 - EN2
3. 8,359,120 - BUHA - 4 - EN3
4. 2,553,190 - EIHoppe - 2 - AS1



NORMAL DIFFICULTY
STARTING GUNPOD = CUSTOM SELECTION

TOP 47,019,690 - Moleculoman - 7 - AS1 - RIOT/FLASH

2. 23,719,740 - J5983 - 6 - EN2 - GRENADE
3. 12,988,940 - Rob - ? - EN2 - GRENADE
4. 12,329,870 - EIHoppe - 4 - AS1 - FLASH/JUNO
5. 11,708,590 - Carmen - 4 - Astraea - JUNO/FLASH
6. 9,446,740 - Pseudo - 7 - EN2 - FLASH
7. 5,904,970 - Zweihander - 4 - EN2 - [unknown]
8. 5,001,820 - AOTD3025 - 4 - EN2 - FLASH



HARD DIFFICULTY
NO STARTING GUNPOD (DEFAULT)

1. ...
2. ...
3. ...



HARD DIFFICULTY
STARTING GUNPOD = CUSTOM SELECTION

TOP 11,356,150 - J5983 - 5 - EN2 - GRENADE

2. 11,193,010 - EIHoppe - 4 - AS1 - FLASH/JUNO
3. 10,332,070 - Carmen - 4 - AS1 - FLASH/FLASH
4. 3,714,040 - AOTD3025 - 3 - EN2 - FLASH
5. ...
6. ...

[Moleculoman]

Carmen wrote:
I think it is also possible to get CLOSE to 4m in stage one, though I don't know if its possible to get higher.


Moleculoman wrote:
It's possible to get over 4 million with the Astraea Mk. II (Selene), and the Astraea Mk. I. I'd tentatively say you maybe able to get 5 mil. Probably have to break your neck to top 4 mil with the Endymion's, but definitely looks doable on paper.

Just wanted to update/continue the discussion on this. Through a lot of do diligence I've finally broken 5 million points for Stg 1. Nothing like getting two extra fighters at the same time.

[Carmen]

Its ironic that you just took over the thread, as I've just started playing the game again. I think I'll devote myself to it for this season... though its daunting... for me there just isn't a shooter that requires as much mental ability as Einhaender (juggling ammo consumption, gunpod placement, maintaining a good multiplier, triggering events for better gunpods, ALL while flying your large as hell craft! Eat your heart out DDP!).

Right now on Stage one the best I did was 3m. I did ~3.4 on the US version several years ago (when I was last 'really into' the game.) I have a hard time managing to get a x16 on the Polizei sub-boss, though I manage it sometimes. But I really haven't found anything concrete to get a x16 on the stage boss. I usually have just settled into blasting him point blank with grenades to finish the fight fast (I usually get a x10/x11.) I'm assuming getting a x16 on him would require destroying his arm individually?

[Moleculoman]

Yeah...you really need a lot of focus if you're aiming for a good game. Einhander is and will probably be the only space shooter I ever play regularly, so it's not as nerve racking as it used to be. Although recently I've broken my 2-3 year hiatus of using the Endymion Mk. II....that was mentally daunting. The Astraea just feels more natural.

While the Astraea is a bit on the bulky side with two gunpods, I've come to notice again how odd the Endymion Mk.II looks to boot. I dislike how certain gunpods are orientated at a 45 degree angle or so when on top (Riot, Cannon etc). The Flash for example, sticks out/up quite a bit from the Endymion II when on top.

There are a couple of ways to go about x16 Greif, the stg1 sub-boss. I can consistently do it, but sometimes I'm dissatisfied with the score I get off of him. I usually would like a minimum of 1.5 million on him. One method that's already been discussed around these parts is using the Flash, my preferred method. Using it really only factors in for making it easier to destroy his bottom section, thereby triggering the x16 and getting the S. bonus (+ 100k!) if done right.

A slightly more risky and less consistent method (in my view) involves using the Riot. It's well suited for the purpose of hitting multiple points on Grief simultaneously. The more you can destroy in one hit the better. You'll probably want to weaken his guns with 7-8 shots of Cannon before using the Riot.

Generally speaking, the more things you can chain, the better. But there are many other variables you'll have to consider, the chief being time. How fast you destroy Greif's various parts, without inadvertently destroying his head or not triggering the x16 is what you want to avoid. You want to balance keeping your multiplier bar high with controlled shots on Greif.

[Moleculoman]

Divided my posts...it was getting lengthy lol.


Up until recently I sort of did what you alluded too, getting up close and pummeling him with shots, or destroying one of his guns and then finishing him off. It won't always get you the x16 , but its a good method. My current and perhaps most risky strategy is destroying all of his guns, head armor, and his lower section using Cannon/Flash.

You'll have a little of what I call the dance of death with Greif. If you haven't noticed, on HARD he will circle around you, covering both sides of the screen. You can let him do that, or preempt this behavior by moving up and down quickly in one spot. Works most of the time. >_> While "dancing" with him, you'll want to put in around 8-10 Cannon shots into his machine gun. Slightly more for his shotgun (I know intuitively when to stop). Lure him to the bottom part of the screen. You want him to fire his shotgun (right arm). Destroy it and the machine gun. Your Flash should be already angled to fire and destroy the machine gun as he recoils from losing his other gun. Multiplier should be ~10-11.

He will now pull out his own Rail Cannon, same as your Flash, but his is 155mm compared to your 80mm. How he fits that thing in his weapons bay is baffling. Now you really have to be careful. He'd like nothing more than to bring his Rail Cannon crashing down on your head.

Stay in the bottom portion of the screen. Move up or down slightly, and I mean slightly...to preempt him from rushing forward to poke you with that R. Cannon. You'll want to fire around 5-6 bursts of Cannon into the R. Cannon. Most importantly, pump enough Cannon to destroy his head armor, while at the same time have your Flash angled at his R. Cannon. This allows for you to shoot it, and hit his lower section together. You want to destroy the R. Cannon and get his lower section (triggering the S. bonus).

It's a really delicate balance, and you will have to constantly adjust your rate and angle of fire as you're doing this as Greif bobs up and down. In some instances you will accidentally destroy his core (his head) or his R. Cannon. You can still get the x16, but you will have scored less most of the time.

This strategy is meant for playing him on HARD. Also, you'll want the Cannon in the top position in this battle. It fires considerably faster this way.

Probably more info than you bargained for...my apologies. @_@

[Carmen]

Hi, no, its no problem... I love to read about this game as its really quite deep!

Actually, what I do on the sub-boss (Greif) is what you wrote earlier, using the Riot after peeling away at the base with Cannon shots. But it doesn't seem to be a very consistant thing, as he moves around a lot and the armour on the base is very strong! I usually get a x16 by destroying the second of the two platings + one his guns... and then taking out the core of the base (aroof?) as fast I can within the multiplier time frame. Needless to say its not a great strategy as theres a lot of room for error (until I get the strength of each part down.)

"Also, you'll want the Cannon in the top position in this battle. It fires considerably faster this way"

I didn't realise that the Cannon's rate of fire depends on which position its on.. oh man this game is crazy! I thought I just wasn't pressing the X button fast enough, which is why the top position seems faster. (on a side note, I'm really considering changing the controls from the default setup.)

When I wrote to taking down the boss with Grenades point-blank, I meant the end of stage boss (on the 9234 site it says his name is Dorabbe? Damn German names in kana!)... though I imagine Grenades would be good on Greif as well (its just theres no Grenade pickups before the fight with him, are they?) I really can't figure out anything better on the end of stage boss so far. I managed a x16 once this weekend, in which I used Vulcan/Riot. After expending several hundred rounds of vulcan fire, he went into that "large laser mode" (10300tpレーザー?), at which point I got in several Riot shots, which somehow comboed and killed him. But this all hinges on him doing the right moves at the right time, and really felt more like luck then anything. I'm guessing, then, a x16 has something to do with destroying his large arm? But yea, so far its Grenade the hell out of him!

Yea, I too don't like the Endy. Its so very confusing for me to switch between this weapons while fighting... though I guess the prospect of always having a stockpile of Grenades/Cannon/etc... in reserve is very good. Also, I don't know if you know this, but in the original version of the game to switch positioning of the gunpod on the Endy is not instantaneous like in the Astraea, making me think that one would probably find an 'ideal' position for every gunpod and keep it in place (whereas it feels mandatory with the Astraea to constantly keep switching the arms as situation changes!)

[Moleculoman]

I'm sure you'll work out some strategy for getting a big score on Greif. I'd say you'd need to chain both his guns and his lower portion. In some cases, you'll have taken out both his guns and his base, but not completely defeated him. If your multiplier has hit x16, and you finish his base off, it will give you a huge boost.

I was chatting with the guy who runs the Code 9234 site, and he actually chains Greif engines. Might be something you can work into your strategy.

The katakana for Drache's name reads Doraahe. I can only assume that the kana representation is as close to the German sound as is possible to make. Greif (Griffon in German) would sound like Goraifu.

The closer you are to any object and/or the further up you are on the screen, the faster your gunpod will fire, provided you rapidly press Square or X. This effect is only really evidenced with the Astraea Mk. I and Mk. II (Selene). One significant difference is that in the American version with you can rapid fire the Cannon like crazy, irrespective of how far up you are on the screen etc. But in the JPN version, if you have the Cannon on top, you can still achieve the same effect, albeit you need to get closer to enemies. For the meantime I exclusively play the JPN version as my U.S. ps2 has stopped reading ps1 games.

If you start with the Flash, you should have enough for Greif and Drache. Don't use any Flash until Greif. As insurance you should definitely get the third S. bonus that will take you via the alternative path under the Autobahn (highway). You can nab yourself some Grenade. In any case, you'll want to use no more than 15-20 shots of Flash on Greif and in the next areas. You'll need at least 23-25 shots of Flash as a cushion for Drache.

At the start of the battle, put two shots of Flash into Drache's head. Then put in 9 shots of Flash into his armor. Be sure to avoid the under armor that's partially exposed towards the back near his tail portion. The two to the head and nine to the body can be done in which ever order you want, although doing the head second can sometimes expose you to his machine cannon. After doing the above, destroy his tail thing, then zip down to his head. Shoot it once or twice as needed to destroy only the armor. This next step is crucial. Immediately after you hear that head armor crumble, pummel his body armor. This should trigger the x16. Now just aim that Flash at his weak spot to finish him off.

This will net you approximately 1.8 million points. There is another approach, but it only hinges on whether Drache flips over to shoot his laser. You follow the same procedures as outlined above, two shots into the head and nine into the armor. Stay down there by his head. If the camera pans over to show his entire body from the side, he won't flip over. Then you just have to go for the 1.8 million take out. If however the camera doesn't pan over, be prepared for him to flip over. I say "be prepared" because Drache doesn't always flip over in that circumstance. Whatever the case, you'll want to move out of the way as he will be raising his head.

If he does flip over (you'll recognize the body cue), start shooting his head. You will damage it as its being swung backwards. Destroy the tail thing and the 10,300 laser thing, triggering the x16. He will flip back over once that is destroyed. Move out as far back out as you can while continuing to fire your Flash. Once he's flipped back over get in close for the kill. This will net you 2 million points.

If you think you won't have enough Flash to finish him off, you'll have the Grenade handy. The Riot also works well for this if you run out in the midst of finishing him off.

[Carmen]

Yea, I'm getting close to something. It is definetly a matter of practice to get the feeling down right, but its becoming a bit less random. Your advice about chaining the guns and the base are the best, I think. The 9234 guy's (heh, I just remembered the reference during my last play through) strategy about hitting the engines... mean the ones on Greif's back? I didn't realise that those could be taken out. Or is it the base...?

I just noticed the difference between putting the Cannon in the top arm as opposed to the bottom... its huge! I like that, it actually makes a difference between putting the Cannon in one arm as opposed to another (I was convinced it was the only gun that was nearly similar in both position.) And the Cannon had this rate of fire no matter what in the US version? I can't even remember!

Thanks for your very incisive strat.! I just got access to the Flash again today, and I remember that my best scores were using Juno/Flash and Flash/Flash. That said, I thought I was on the verge of figuring out a consistant strat to nail a x16 on Drache (do you happen, by the way, to know if these names are actually words in German or just names?) using Grenade. I managed, twice in a row, to get a x16, and once getting a x15, by Grenading point black in his body until the first sheet of armour (so strong!!) was out, and then taking the Grenades on the claw until that was destroyed, and then finishing off (and expending the remaining ammo) on his body. But it doesn't seem to work if he decides his first move is to mount the Gunpod

And needless to say, of course I always try to go for the bottom route

I also managed a once in a chance x16 on the 2st. mid-boss (the boat,) by Grenading his back and then his face... I'm sure it was luck, though.

By the way, I really remember that just before the 3st. mid-boss there is a Grenade pick-up... but I only managed to get it once today? Is it totally randomised, or does it depend on how fast you destroy the previous ships?

And so this is just more then a ST thread... here a score update from me!

10,416,470 - Carmen - 4 - AS1 - VULCAN/RIOT (Normal... I won't touch Hard again for a while, I'm afraid!)

[Moleculoman]

The 9234 guy's (heh, I just remembered the reference during my last play through) strategy about hitting the engines... mean the ones on Greif's back? I didn't realise that those could be taken out. Or is it the base...?

Now that I think about it, he and I may have been talking about the same thing. What I call the lower or bottom section of Greif is technically it's engines.

By the way, I really remember that just before the 3st. mid-boss there is a Grenade pick-up... but I only managed to get it once today? Is it totally randomized, or does it depend on how fast you destroy the previous ships?

I believe it is random. Most of the time that weapon carrier has a Wasp or Vulcan perhaps. Every so often it will carry a Grenade though so if you need it, be ready to nab it. You can also usually get a Grenade right before that area from a Muschel, that machine that has a rotating cyclinder on it's back and fires a hail of bullets at you. The blade also works superbly against the Gecko (3 stg midboss).

Do you happen, by the way, to know if these names are actually words in German or just names?

Most of the regular enemies in Einhander have names that are words in German. Many of them are animals, Viper, Owl, Spider, Dragonfly, Beetle. Our very own Zack Keene has an excellent faq that details the names alongside their translation.

The various groups of enemies in each stage have designations based off of German WWI and WW II tank, aircraft, and troop divisions. Its evident that the remainder of Earth's nations have joined together to form a German empire, so it makes sense.

Earth Forces

Stg 1 - Uberfall Kommando [Assault Commando?]
Stg 2 - Panzer Schwebezug [Panzer meaning tank as in an armored vehicle, Schwebezug is "hovertrain"]

Stg 3 - Stutzpunkt-Garnison (???)
Stg 4 - Marine Infantarie [Marine Infantry??]
Stg 5 - Luftstutzpunkt Garnison [Airbase/Military airfield]
Stg 6 - Luftwaffe [general term for an Airforce]

Selene

Stg 7 - Selene Reconquesteres [SRF - Selene Reconquesteres Force]

You can definitely get a x16 on Drache, Garnelle (2nd stg midboss) with the Grenade. For Drache, as long you rapidly chain his body parts.

Good score. However I think you can make it past stg 4 without dying. You are using the Astraea after all! Grab two Cannons and duel wield it!!

The Hyperion satellite commands you too!

"Code 9234: Order the following operation. Find the nuclear reactor in the enemy base and destroy it." [End Transmission].

[Carmen]

Sorry for the delay, I have been so busy recently - and a little game called Advance Wars cut into the free time I had remaining!! But I hope to get into and improve this weekend! Haha, you have too much faith in me when it comes to Stage 4. I don't know about now, but back when I used to play the US version I dreaded the hellstorm that erupts at the beginning of that stage - its very manic!

Thanks for the tip about the Blade on the 3st. sub-boss. I never thought about using it honestly! The Grenades would be best but they never seem to show up, but at least two Blades always seem to show up. I'm curious to try and see if Blades are more effective then what I've resorted to doing, dual-wielding Cannons! (I usually stock up a LOT of Cannon ammo in 2st., since its so helpful in taking out the Boss there w. a good multiplier.)

I'll def. check out that FAQ of Zack Keene's. I'm pretty curious to see the origin of the names, though I'll try to be careful, I don't want the rest of the game spoiled yet. I've never got past 5st., honestly (though I might be able to beat the whole game if I went crazy with those ten credits!) I already know about the hidden ships (one just being a infinite ammo Astraea? Lame...) and the final stage being called "Hyperion," thanks to an overt mention on the soundtrack album - which I had bought long before the game!

[Moleculoman]

Two gunpods worth of Blade should suffice for Gecko, and you probably DO NOT want a dual setup as well. Grab some Cannon for the top position, and carefully nab two gunpods of Blade from the Muschels and one of the three Daschels.


Hmm...not sure how much time you've spent with the game. There are some great titles up on the horizon for the PS3, Wii, and handheld systems, so I can understand being preoccupied with it all!

If Stage 5 is really giving you a lot of trouble, maybe you should try using the Endymion Mk. III? It plays lot more like the Astraea, you have twin machine guns, and only one gunpod to worry about. It was the first ship I used to beat the game. That...or try the Mk. II. You always have a powerful gunpod when you need it. Play on Easy if you have too!

Also, I noticed you had the Vulcan in your setup for the score you submitted. You are seriously better off with another gunpod, or having none equipped there at all. Your own fighters machine gun is leaps and bounds above the Vulcan.


The Astraea FGA Mk. II carries 9,999 rounds of any gunpod equipped (Square and their preoccupation with this number lol...). For practical purposes its more or less going to boil down to one having enough ammo for the entire game, needing to grab no more than those you equip at startup...almost. This wouldn't apply with the Juno, Blade, and maybe the Vulcan. Their high rate of ammo usage precludes that. The Astraea Mk. II is far from lame I think.


Lastly, the final stage (stg7) is not called Hyperion. However,that name has a connection to the stage.

[Carmen]

Yes, the Blade is simple devestating on Gecko! Crazy, I really had no idea it would be this effective... its easy to take him down with only ~300 ... ammos (I'm not sure what Blade would use. Charges? Electric power?) Thanks again for the tip, its the only x16 on a boss which manages to come out fairly consistantly

Well, my history with the game is that I first played it many years ago on my old US PS2. It was among my first shooties and I loved it, and played it a lot for a few months (you can see from my US scores.) I didn't play it for a long, long time afterwards. I have played many shooters since then though, so I'm sure my skill is much higher then before. Now I'm coming back to it... and, well, like I've said, to me, I feel this game demands much more then most, just in terms of what you have to do. So I'm coming to grips with it, but its good, I like it. I wish I got more time to play it lately, since if theres any game which demands consistant playing, I imagine this would be it!

Yes, I'm sure the Endy III is not bad to use? Its probably similar to playing the Astraea after finishing the ammo in one Gunpod. Still though, I can't abandon Astraea, I would feel bad! I think I will stick with it and try to see it through, though perhaps soon I'll try 'not playing for score,' since I open up way too many riskier situations this way. One of the reasons I'm bad at 4st. is because I never really get to it, get shot down in an instant, and don't see it again for many plays.

Yea, the Vulcan is just there for jokes, I've had access to much better Gunpods all along. I just switched it to Juno/Riot, soon I will probably transitition to Juno/Flash. But, is it really worse then having nothing equipped??

I just played a few games on Hard this week. I used to play on Hard exclusivly almost back with the US game, but wow, I didn't rememeber it making such a difference! For example, I knew Greif tried to get behind you during the fight, but I only thought he did rarely. He seems to go for it everytime if you leave him open, though! I can see now why you wrote such a long description for trying to make him avoid doing that... it really messes up the fight!

As a result, heres a Hard score. I don't think I'll go back on Hard for a while, honestly!

6,470,040 - 3 - AS1 - JUNO/RIOT

[Moleculoman]

Yes, the Blade is simply devastating on Gecko! Crazy, I really had no idea it would be this effective... its easy to take him down with only ~300 ... ammos (I'm not sure what Blade would use. Charges? Electric power?) Thanks again for the tip, its the only x16 on a boss which manages to come out fairly consistently

It comes out to something like 400-430 Blade rounds to destroy Gecko. Always good to have a little more though. He'll not go quietly sometimes and surprise you with a quick turret shot from his head.

Not sure what the Blade uses. It's a laser blade so. Generally I tend to say "rounds" or "shots" of something. It does have the same destroying effect on enemies as the Riot (that opal blue aftercharge).

Well, my history with the game is that I first played it many years ago on my old US PS2. It was among my first shooties and I loved it, and played it a lot for a few months (you can see from my US scores.) I didn't play it for a long, long time afterwards. I have played many shooters since then though, so I'm sure my skill is much higher then before...

I can definitely relate. In my case, I was renting the game from Blockbuster. I had managed to beat the game and was working toward unlocking the Astraea Mk. II (Selene) when it suddenly disappeared from their shelves. Not sure why...I'm guessing they sold it as a used game on a whim.

It seemed like the game was not in great circulation around that time, although it was perhaps slightly more abundant. I didn't have money of my own at the time as I was just starting high school (circa 1998). I would not play it again until mid 2005 when I bought the N.A. version. It didn't feel like that long of a gap as the numbers suggest. I had a lot of ground to make up, what with re-learning my skills and strategies. I dear say I've made up for lost time, and still have some room to improve.

As you said, Einhander requires a lot of time devotion in order to improve your play. Up until recently, I've been playing in 3 month spurts. Play like crazy for a week then go cold turkey for months. I'm happy to say that I've just finally 1cc'd the game on HARD with every Einhander ship (minus the Schabe @_@). I'll have to recount to you my 1cc Endymion Mk. II game...it was maniacal!

Perhaps when Einhander hits its 20th year anniversary I'll have worked up the courage and initiative to do it with the Schabe(tiny police ship)...not looking forward to it though.

Yes, I'm sure the Endy III is not bad to use? Its probably similar to playing the Astraea after finishing the ammo in one gunpod. Still though, I can't abandon Astraea, I would feel bad! I think I will stick with it and try to see it through, though perhaps soon I'll try 'not playing for score,' since I open up way too many riskier situations this way...

It's been an even longer stretch of time since I've seriously played with the Endymion Mk. III. I just 1cc'd the game with it a few days ago. It actually played much better than I expected. Maybe the combination of the long drought from play coupled with my inexperience in years past have dulled my senses. As I see it, the EN3 is the love child of AS1 and EN2. It has the weapons positions of the EN2 with the ammo count of the AS1. Sadly, unlike its two parents, the EN3 does not have its manipulator free for use when a gunpod is equipped. It's dual machine guns are like half a gundpod I think.

As for Stg 4....I think a dual Cannon config is your best bet. Cannon/Spreader is not to bad either. In preparation for stg 4, you probably want to have some Grenade left over from Gustav (st3 boss), or stock up and beat Gustav with the Cannon with some left over for stg 4.

You'll need to replenish your Cannon stock from RABE, the Cannon turret that appears in front of you in this stage. It's interesting to note, and none of the faqs mention this, that in the JPN version, RABE only slides across above you on rails. In the N.A. version, they appear in front of you, floating miraculously. God knows what they were thinking with that change.

You need to have more confidence with the Astraea. Its a bonifide POWERHOUSE in terms of firepower. Once you are better able to anticipate enemy patterns, you can take them out with ease. As for scoring...once you've mastered it, you're going to score a heck of a lot more with the Astraea. Only tidbit I'll mention, as I've learned the hard way, is to not limit yourself to much to one fighter. You can learn a lot from having to pass stages with only 1 gunpod (ala EN3) or juggle 3 at the same time. It builds the mental fortitude you'll need later on.

That time will come when you will be gunning for the Selene, 0 fighters left, 3 continues down and Ausf D Durer (stg 5 boss) will be standing in your way. If you pass him you will get an extend and a better chance at success. All you have is the Vulcan and an indescribable determination to win. Durer is a tough s.o.b.


Greif only cirlces you on HARD. And yes....you are better off with your Dafoe 20mm machine gun over a Vulcan. Shy away from the Vulcan unless you're without any gunpod at all with the AS1.

The heavens await your triumphant arrival in Stg 6, notwithstanding something black and sinister. God speed to you Carmen!!

[Carmen]

Thanks! Your wishes aided me, its not quite 6st. yet, but it is an improvement...

NORMAL:
14,499,100 - 5 - AS1 - JUNO/RIOT

A lot of this score came from the x16 on Gusutafu/Gustaf (spelling?). I was very fortunate to receive the Godly Flash from the 3rd Secret. Now I can see why you recommended stocking so much Blade ammo! Not only is it absolutly unbeatable for Gekko, but it makes getting the 3rd Secret very possible (and, in addition, if I manage to miss the Flash, it seems to be an OK choice for trying to do a combo on Gustaf.) Very cool weapon, when I start playing with the Endys as per your suggestion (not looking forward to Mk II, haha... I wonder how you managed to do it with all that juggling of three weapons), I will def. consider stocking it up. Being able to swing it seems like it'd be an awesome addition.

Damn, it seems like getting a x16 on Gustaf is vital to a good run, too. I had another run where I got fantastic (well, for me) scores on 1st. and 2st. (x16s on both end-bosses, to say the least), but having botched up the Gustaf fight I was 2m short by the end of 3st. The Flash/Grenade combo seems invaluable for taking him down well.

Yes, dual-wielding Cannons are a very good bet for 4st. (or at least the first part.) Damn though, the stage can be quite hectic! Very exciting though. Its the only x16s I get in the stage too, as I haven't really started figuring out more comprehensive strats. for the mini-bosses and the stage boss, the Bein (is that his name? It doesn't seem very menacing).

Speaking of the stage boss, damn, he is scary! I mean, not just difficult, but I shook a bit when he first jumped out of nowhere like that. Though I guess thats a common thread to all of the bosses in this game. 5st. looks awesome, by the way!

Shouldn't the 20th anniversery have passed? According to VGrebirth the game was released in November of '97 http://www.vgrebirth.com/games/game.asp ... D0%26y%3D0

[Moleculoman]

Was in the process of moving to a new residence, didn't have internet access for a few days.

Good to see you've gotten passed Stg 4. Yeah..the Blade has that special property of stopping/slowing down Gustav's (stg 4 boss) spinning discs. As long as you stay near him whilst extending the Blade, avoiding or chaining his rocket arms, you can chain his body parts for a x16 and a huge score boost. The Hedgehog also has the same stopping property, although its a bit more of a risky proposition. I may experiment with substituting the Blade more in the future battles with Gustav.

Unless I'm using the AS2, I usually won't go for the Flash in Stg 3. Depends on how I feel at the time. I like to use Wasps to hit all of the falling pieces, and much less so the Blade if I have enough ammo for the job.

Using the Flash can make short work of Gustav, although if you're too hasty you can end up destroying his core without having chained anything and not getting a x16. A Grenade/Cannon Astraea set up is sufficient for him. Grenades alone would do the job as well, although you'll want the benefit of two gunpods to simultaneously use for chaining purposes.

Not looking forward to the Mk II, haha... I wonder how you managed to do it with all that juggling of three weapons.

I didn't start out as an Astraea player, although I doubt very many seriously play with the fighter when they first play the game. You sort of see it on the screen, and think "oh wow two gunpods at the same time sweet! " Then reality sinks in when the steep learning curve for the game coupled with your inexperience brings you crashing down. So long story short, I had played with the EN2 much earlier in my time with the game while renting it (the faqs said it was the best fighter) but I had a drastic change of heart with I got to Stg 5 without losing a fighter with the AS1 after getting my hands on a copy again.

I abandoned the EN2, having not mastered my weapons (L1 & R1) switching skill sufficiently. I didn't need them for the Astraea anyhow ahahahha. Suffice it to say when I finally had the motivation use the EN2 years later for a 1cc game, I was good enough at switching weapons (with a few days of practice), combined with the more experience to accomplish it.

In addition to using a Cannon/Cannon setup for Stg 4, or Wasp/Cannon, use the water below to duck under if you have too. Also, you need to be really aggressive here, especially with the Astraea. When that last wave of enemies appear (the huge wave), you want to be up close and personal and take them out. You want your fighter a little past the center of the screen. Maybe I'll make a recording of stg 4 so you get an idea of what I mean.

For Salamander (stg 4 midboss), Riot, Grenade, Hedgehog, they all all work well. For Sturmvogel (stg 4 boss), Grenade, Riot, or Cannon will do. For Sturmvogel, be ready to pounce on Vampir when he comes out with weapons. If memory serves me, he will appear with a Riot in front, Wasp in back. Or he'll appear with Cannon in front and Grenade on his back.

To make a good run, you not only have to score well on Gustav, but on every boss you can manage. Lastly the game was released in 1997 so 2007 will have marked its 10th anniversary. It's 20th will be in 2017.

[Carmen]

Ha, nice to hear you again! I thought you had vanished! (shot down in action, haha)

I've really gotten into the game this past week. Its seems to be clicking for me much more now, as I'm getting more and more x16s and quickly developing strategies that I hadn't thought of before. Managed a x16 on the Sturmvogal (now THAT's a menacing name) by freaking out and spamming Cannon and Grenade point blank. Very cool!

I see what you mean about the Flash. Not only is it a little hard to get, but other then that one time, I destroyed him without any good multiplier. Actually, I'm trying to stock up and spam Cannon now on him. It worked once so far, so its one for one... I'll see what I can do with it. Its so important to get a x16 on that guy (Yea, I know the ideal is to do well on every boss, but I'm taking it one step at a time!)

And referring to your initial question about 1 st. scores. Well, I've managed to get within a hair of 4m. I feel I can get reach it but... how you got an additional 1m is totally beyond me. Is there something about the x16 mechanic I'm missing? I know that if you chain Greif's parts and push the multiplier into the red, and then hit him, you'll get more points then simply finishing him with x16 combo... but other then that, I'm at a loss. For the record I can manage a maximum of eight x16s during the stage, two before Grief, one at him, two right after him and before the descent into the destroyed city, two in the run-up before Drache, and finally one at Drache. So, yea....

So, you started out as an Endy player? Crazy. I guess you're right, the AS1 has a huge learning curve, its probably why I used to be so rubbish at the game while grappling with it. Still though, I can't imagine things are that much easier with the Endy II.

BY THE WAY, my scores are all going to be for the Japanese version. Sorry for not making it clear, but yea, you should probably revert the US table score, so as to be fair. I don't think I could mimic the scores I'm making on this version with the lower Cannon ammo you get in the US version, anyway.

Improvements will be forthcoming this weekend...

(PS, sorry, it seems I'm pretty bad at basic math. Lets just say all time is cyclical, anyway!)

[Moleculoman]

So...you want me to remove your 14 mil score from the table? I wasn't exactly sure what version you were playing, as you didn't indicate it. I just made my best judgment based on our conversing.


If you want to break the 4 million mark for Stg 1, you're going need a large score on Greif. He's 70% of the key to breaking 4 or 5 mil. You will need between 1.6-1.8 mil. 1.8 before fighting Drache (stg 1 boss). 1.6 mil if you score the max on Drache or 1.8 mil if you score less. Add the stg score total of enemies shot down, boss bonus etc and you will hit 4 mil.

There are to my knowledge 10 x16 possibilities for stg 1. While you don't need all 10 to break 4 or 5 million, they help in case you score less on Greif.
There really isn't any catch to the multiplier bar. As far as I can tell, it works pretty much like any other shooters multiplier bar.

[Carmen]

Yes, sorry about that, it was my mistake. You could move it to the Jpn column, wheras my old US score was "11,708,590 - Carmen - 4 - Astraea - JUNO/FLASH" I no longer have the US game, so if it slips my mind again, my score won't be for that version.

Ahh, I was wondering if there wa somthing like trying to kill as many enemies after the multiplier is pushed up (that is, in the red zone) for a bigger bonus of something, you know? Glad, I didn't miss something like that!

I've reached around ~1.7m before Drache, leading to ~3.9m scores. Does thos mean though, that when you were aiming for 5m (and two extends!), you were going for 2.8m before Drache?

Is it just me, or it seems that its quite easy to get a x16 on the Sturmvogal, what with all the destructable missiles and other spam he's shooting at you, eh?

Expect imporiovements soon, I just have to link all of the individual improvements into one good run!

Oh, and I just found this site... its bit short ont the information then Code 9234, but lots of nice pictures... http://www.einhander.org/

[Moleculoman]

Okay. I just moved your 14 mil score to the JPN table.

Assuming you can navigate and read Sturmvogel's attack well enough, with the right weapons you can x16 him whenever you want. Practically all of his attacks can be shot to rack up your multiplier bar. The Cannon and especially the Riot are perfect for this.

You're just about right. Although you don't need as high as 2.8 to break 5 mil. My best score getting to Drache is approx. 2.7 mil, which is more than enough. In order to score 5 million points, I'll need a minimum of 2,585,000 before fighting Drache. As long as I x16 Drache, which I can do 97% of the time, I can hit 5 mil. My current best is slightly over 5,119,000.

To tie it all back in, I could not attain that minimum 2, 585,000 score unless I got a high 1.9 but more likely 2 million score on Greif.

Forget about scoring lol. Beat the game! :p

[Carmen]

Haha, working on it! But damn, things do get tough, esp. with the hellish blaze in the second part of the fifth stage. I just got past it for the first time today (it seems a lot of it has to do with neutralising the targets near the bottom of the screen before they fill the screen with bullets.) Only to get shot down at the boss in about five seconds. Ah well, it looks like he'll be a good fight!

So, slight score improvements will have to do for just now

16,930,400 - 5 - AS1 - JUNO/RIOT

Remember, Japanese version, my friend! By the way, could you re-enter my old US score (I put in my previous post)? I don't want to lose a record of how much I've improved in the game.

[Moleculoman]

Ahh, I was wondering if there was something like trying to kill as many enemies after the multiplier is pushed up (that is, in the red zone) for a bigger bonus of something, you know? Glad, I didn't miss something like that!

I alluded to this in my strats on Greif, I apologize for not being more clear. You get HUGE score increases for destroying enemy cores or enemy body parts (hands, legs, armor) especially while your multiplier bar is in the Red zone. How big a score increase depends on the enemy core or body part destroyed.

That difference in how much you can score on Drache (1.8 mill vs 2 mil), the 1st stg boss, derives from that. You get that extra 200,000 from starting your multiplyer chain sooner, meaning everything you destroy while the bar is red is multiplied by what I presume to be 16. It's probably 16, as it says x16 but that really doesn't matter. It's obvious as day that you get a huge score boost.

So when Drache flips his head back, you're chaining his head as it rises, his tail thing, his laser cannon, and his top armor, followed lastly by his enemy core. That's only if he flips.

[Carmen]

Happy to hear from you again! Been a while, haha. I haven't had any time to play Einhaender since two weeks now! I need to continue it soon, haha..

Yes, you mentioned it before. I was merely wondering if there are any other special things to be aware of a x16. Its so hard to use the x16 most effectively on bosses though! As you mention, it sometimes rely on luck (like hoping Drache will flip over.) But then again, as you also say, I should beat the game first... haha!

I look forward to any video you'll post, maybe it'll be just what it takes to make me get back into it again

[Moleculoman]

I wouldn't call it luck. However, unlike some shooters which never deviate from set patterns and enemy behavior, you never know what a boss is going to do. Some of it is dictated by your own actions, as when bosses use certain attacks against you based on your fighter location, while in other situations you hold your breath and pray they don't open up with simultaneous attacks right from the get go.

Asuf D Gestell, that jumping monkey 5th stg sub-boss is a prime example...I hate that bastard sooo much. That's what makes him so dangerous. Beware his opening attacks...sometimes he plays nice...and sometimes launches a torrent of death at you.

It is within this maelstrom of randomness that you have be prepared to act. You might score big or you might not, and you have less than a second to make that decision. Einhander is a constant struggle of staying alive...and living only in the moment. No boss or enemy can be taken lightly...

I tired using my crappy web cam to record a stg 4 run. The frame rate was atrocious. The quality would have been terrible so I stopped. I really need to buy a capture device. I have a basic gist of what's out there, but it would be swell to have a DVR thingy similar to Tivo. You could hook up your console to it and record playthroughs, then transfer them to your hard drive. There might be something like that, but I haven't read or come across it.

[Carmen]

Bah, such a late reply on my part! Studies have eaten up a good deal of my time, and the rest of it has been devoted to fighting games, sadly leaving precious little time for Einhaender (something I want to rectify after two weeks.)

But, I did get to put it in once and at least I was able to jump right back to where I was. So much so that I have a small update

Japanese Normal:

18 148 910 - 5 - AS1 - JUNO/RIOT

Japanese Hard:

10 051 310 - 4 - AS1 - JUNO/RIOT

Maybe this weekend will be give me ample time for a second try... if not there is always two weeks from now but the sooner the better, playing this game again reminded me how much I loved it

MM, I bought my capture card off Newegg.com I don't have the exact link but it was the cheapest one (~20 dollars), I've found it to be very good. Maybe you should give that shot? I use that along with a distribution amp to split the signal of the system between the computer and the television, so I can play off the TV while recording. However, you can play off the computer as well, it overrides the need for an emulator.

The problem with DVRs is that there is input lag which in this sort of game especially would not work out. But that was over five years ago when I researched it and the tech. may have come miles by then.

And you're right about Gestell... he can just come out of nowhere and start the fight by leaping at you, giving you a total scare! I wonder what he's like on Hard. Very poetic speech by the way

[Moleculoman]

That's a solid Normal score you have there.


Heh....I Einhander'd myself out. I was playing incessantly a couple of months ago, as in night and day, for hours on end. I've never played so much before in my life. One could say it was almost unhealthy to put that much time into one game. Well... I only have a handful of games that I play on a regular basis, seeing as I haven't gone next gen yet (no PS3 or Wii etc).

I guess that's what happens when I play in 3-5 month spurts. I think the lastest spurt was motivated by trying to perfect my Selene play and beat the highest ranking Japanese player score I know of, which I did. Don't know how long that will last though.

Part of picking up and playing again was to accomplish 1cc'ing the game with every Einhander fighter. Now that that's done, I have to move on to tougher challenges.

I know how you feel though. If I had a PS3 or Wii etc, I probably wouldn't devote as much time to Einhander. I need more games....

As for capturing runs....I kind of find it very tedious, in terms of setting it up and making a good run. I'm to much of a perfectionist, it would take me months of painstaking play to record a run to my liking. But never say never...

[Carmen]

Thanx. I hope to improve it next time... I keep saying next week but it is true! with classes over my free time should multiply.

I think, from my experience to play a single game for a long time is not bad, but its good to have something on the side to 'relax' in. I played Gradius V for 200+ hours for the whole of January to May last year, but I never got too tired as I always had something calm to put in now and then. Just a matter of moderation... though then again my PLAN was to have 1cc'd this game several months ago !

Speaking of PS3s, hopefully this game will make it on the PSN so a new generation of players can discover it!

[Moleculoman]

I should try to play some other shooters. I don't have the luxury of spending much money on them though. Right now the PS3 and MGS4/MGO are calling me....@_@


Not sure if you use Facebook, but there is an Einhander facebook group. I joined but I get the feeling that most of the members are more casual fans. It's always a treat to see female fans ahahaha. Of course I have Einhander listed as my religion.

One day I going to start a Church of Einhander. This is not the first time it has been mentioned... Glory with the MOOOON!! (You'll need to finish the game to join the Church!!) :p

[Carmen]

I actually played a game last weekend that REALLY reminded me of Einhaender with the attention to detail and style called R-Type Delta (also PS1). I mean the games are quite different, but the attention to lighting and colouring felt more like Einhaender then anything else. If I'm to give any recommendations

Anyway, about Einhaender.... did I say "next week" in my earlier post? I meant to say two weeks . But I have started playing it again and wow, its still... awesome, haha. I'm still seeing things in the earlier stages that I haven't seen before (like when the Cannon guys from the ceiling for the stage 4 act I *fly after you*) Expect more improvements soon.

Ahh, that is surprising to hear that there is a Facebook community for the game! I'll remember to join next time I go on to that thing. You should inform some of the guys/gals on it about shmups.com and this thread! It might help fill up all those blank spaces in the table.

EDIT: I'm getting closer and closer to that 1CC, so I'll submit my petition for membership in the Church soon

[Moleculoman]

You should inform some of the guys/gals on it about shmups.com and this thread! It might help fill up all those blank spaces in the table.

Hahah...perhaps. As I said earlier, I get the feeling that most of them are just casual fans. Scoring is the farthest thing from their minds I'd reckon.

Speaking of filling in blank spaces, I busted out my ps2 this weekend to play Einhander and fill in some spaces, only to find my controller is slightly dysfunctional. The directional UP input on the D-pad doesn't respond all the time. The fighter was jerky and didn't go up every time I pushed up...ah well.

Guess I'll have to buy a new controller. Seeing as this was the white controller that came with my JPN ceramic ps2, I'll have to order it online. I'm kinda picky on such things. Controller must match lol...so Einhander has to wait.

[Carmen]

Japanese Normal
26,558,700 - 7 (ALL CLEAR) - AS1 - JUNO/RIOT

Only one thing to say... can I join the Church now? [/img]