Rez, Ikaruga, Trigger Heart CONFIRMED for Xbox Live!

[Acid King]

I for one see this as the beginning of the end of material media. The days of buying games on CD/DVD/etc, in cases are numbered.

I seriously doubt we'll be downloading Blu Ray sized games to our consoles anytime soon.

[Necronom]

I for one see this as the beginning of the end of material media. The days of buying games on CD/DVD/etc, in cases are numbered.

I seriously doubt we'll be downloading Blu Ray sized games to our consoles anytime soon.

No need for that because the "Blu Ray sized" games will be split and you'll be downloading episodes, which will also eliminate the second hand market btw.

[spadgy]

I for one see this as the beginning of the end of material media. The days of buying games on CD/DVD/etc, in cases are numbered.

I seriously doubt we'll be downloading Blu Ray sized games to our consoles anytime soon.

No need for that because the "Blu Ray sized" games will be split and you'll be downloading episodes, which will also eliminate the second hand market btw.

I was at Eidos the other day (well, the other month), and they were hinting about real fallings out between retail stores and game publishers over downloadable content. That would seem to suggest plans in the game industry to actively move towards DLC and the end of retail.

And accidentally bringing things nicely back on topic, the Rez creator who's pretty wise about such things was recently speculating on the end of retail. In Edge I think.

[sideshow]

Rez HD is only about 110 MB and it contains both the original and HD versions of the game. Small download size.

[Koa Zo]

I've tried it with a second controller but you can use up to 3 extra pads. The vibration of the second controller is quite different to what the main pad does and it's quite an experience, I'm almost tempted to buy a couple more pads

Thanks for that good news. Mizuguchi and co sure didn't mess around.
I can't imagine how cool it'll be playing with 3 "TranceVibrators"; one in my sweatshirt hood, and one in each pocket.

[Necronopticous]

Thanks for that good news. Mizuguchi and co sure didn't mess around.
I can't imagine how cool it'll be playing with 3 "TranceVibrators"; one in my sweatshirt hood, and one in each pocket.

You're doing it wrong.

[jpj]

i always read shit like this in the mcv. along with industry commentators saying the mobile market is ready to really take off
eidos tested the waters with tomb raider, but their biggest problem (and same goes for the other big publishers) = they don't have the balls to do it

[Necronom]

i always read shit like this in the mcv. along with industry commentators saying the mobile market is ready to really take off
eidos tested the waters with tomb raider, but their biggest problem (and same goes for the other big publishers) = they don't have the balls to do it

Steam is already making a shitload of money with downloads and GTA IV on the 360 will be expanded significantly with downloadable episodes. Has nothing to do with "having balls" but with "taking a serious financial risk".
Also, there's lots of potential in the mobile market. Unfortunately, hardcore gamers ignore the good stuff and publishers don't do the proper marketing. Orcs and Elves was pretty good and stuff like SteamIron ( http://www.steamirongame.com/en_main.htm ) look very promising.

[Koa Zo]

You're doing it wrong.

I don't have a vagina.

[Skyline]

I don't have a vagina.

WHY NOT

[Enhasa]

If I was writing a review for Rez, I would be deathly sure to avoid saying 3 things:

1) trance vibrator omg vibrator get it
2) synesthesia and/or kadinsky
3) underneath it all it's just a rail shooter like PANZER DRAGOON but omg here it's so much more!

Every video game journalist or new games journalist or artfag or anyone I have ever heard talk about this game fails at all 3 of these, and it's just stupid to hear the same bullshit over and over again, devoid of meaning.

That being said, it is a great game though.

[moozooh]

I would be deathly sure to avoid saying 3 things:

1) trance vibrator omg vibrator get it
2) synesthesia and/or kadinsky
3) underneath it all it's just a rail shooter like PANZER DRAGOON but omg here it's so much more!

"This is a great game. I won't be saying any more because you know all this stuff anyway. Have fun."

[Enhasa]

I know you must realize that there's more than 3 things you can say about this game. Especially when none of those things are very useful...

"This is a great game. I won't be saying any more because you know all this stuff anyway. Have fun."

You're joking but still this is more concise, less annoying, and more informative than any real review.

[moozooh]

But how do you make a game review by completely ignoring most of the main [discerning] properties of a game? And what else would you say that wouldn't be as hackneyed as this, yet still true and primarily relevant?

[Necronom]

I know you must realize that there's more than 3 things you can say about this game. Especially when none of those things are very useful...

"This is a great game. I won't be saying any more because you know all this stuff anyway. Have fun."

You're joking but still this is more concise, less annoying, and more informative than any real review.

Well, the game did support a vibrator device. Synesthesia is a concept that plays an important role in Rez and yes, the game is dedicated to/ inspired by the expressionist works of W. Kandinsky (see credits at the end). It also is a solid rail shooter underneath though a pretty unique one due to the beautifully realized concept of synesthesia. Mood and style are equally important here as the mechanics (aka gameplay).
What exactly was your problem again?

[CMoon]

which will also eliminate the second hand market btw.

I'm very sure that is precisely what they are thinking which is pretty unfortunate. Video games and music are the only areas that still retain a semi-barter system (I purge my collections occasionally). But you can't re-sell a download. Can't even sell it on ebay unless you want to sell the whole system.

[bullet_happy]

Im really insterested now to buy X360.Can anyone post a detailed shmup XBOX LIVE European PAL list please?So far I know:

REZ HD
Karous
Omega Five
Ikaruga
Trigger Heart

[Enhasa]

Sorry to derail, you can move this if you're a mod. I didn't even intend for anyone to respond at all to my first post. Also if you are not moozooh or Necronom, you would probably do better to skip reading this post.

Ok, I can't believe I'm going to sound like I'm channeling icycalm here (his article about reviews of sequels), but here goes. Keep in mind we are talking about Rez HD here, not Rez. It would be fine to say things like that in a Rez review, when it is actually new information that people might not know about. Also, I am talking about the review paradigm where the goal is to actually inform the reader on a potential purchase, not the new games journalism approach of discussion disguised as reviews.

The biggest problem with statements like those is that they aren't very useful, and replace or dilute the more informative things you could say. Who is going to be reading a Rez HD review? People who just play Halo won't know or care about Rez in the first place, or Rez HD. Someone who is a total Mizuguchi fanboy would buy Rez HD without a second thought. Anyone who had any interest in playing Rez in the first place (and thus knows what the game is about), probably would have already, since with the PS2 reprint it isn't hard to find. And someone who has never heard of Rez, but checks Live Arcade regularly, would just try out the demo to see what this is, if they were remotely interested.

So who would be reading a Rez HD review? How about: someone who has played the first game, who is wondering if they should get this new version. I tried clicking and going through review after review, and got the same recycled, useless crap. All it proves is that all the reviews just indulge in groupthink and copy ad nauseum from other sources. At least these 3 factoids are all true, but I've seen games where everyone parrots the same completely inaccurate facts (usually from the first review published).

The trance vibrator isn't even available for this version. So talking about it (omg female stimulation snicker) is just an indulgence that proves you are "in the know" at the expense of a more useful review. This all originated from that one gamer girl (or whatever) article. If that article was never written, nobody would say this.

Yes, this game is about synesthesia (although yes, I know this word is being somewhat abused compared to its actual definition). But so is Lumines, Every Extend Extra, and well, just about every rhythm game actually. Why doesn't anyone talk about synesthesia in Lumines? Zillion Beatz? Whatever? It's because one day Andrew Vestahl wrote an article and now everyone just parrots it without inserting original thought. It isn't useful to namedrop "synesthesia" and "Kandinsky." It's useful (to the very rare Rez HD review reader who doesn't know anything about the game) to describe how the audio and visual and haptic senses combine, and to be fair, most reviews did this. There's just no real reason to say "synesthesia" unless you want to look cool or prove to your boss that you did your homework.

I cheated on the last one. The first part about being a rail shooter is actually very relevant. The second part about being "somehow more" is like the old "it has a certain je ne sais quoi" that nobody says anymore because it is ridiculous and meaningless. If the reader has already been told Rez is a rail shooter, and has already been told about the audio-visual mindtrip, that's it! It's a rail shooter with a different presentation. Expanding on this for even more paragraphs is just art wankery. Is this game art? Why is this for the reviewer to say? It doesn't do a potential buyer much good. Art is for the individual to decide, what is beautiful to them.

All I wanted to know was how Rez HD differed from Rez, without having to download the demo. If I knew it would take more than 2 minutes, I would have just gone the demo route. Every review talked about how the graphics were updated and how you can play in 5.1 surround now. That was it. Nothing about any gameplay changes, how faithful the port plays (not looks and sounds), etc.

Eventually I just gave up and went to gamefaqs (a very inefficient source of information) to actually find out some of this info. Things like: the pitch is slightly altered, so it is disconcerting to people with absolute pitch. Some new effects were added. All the old modes are still there. There are some minor differences in the levels, such as the shading and visibility of the asteroid in area 5.

The problem with these reviews are systemic, so I'm not really blaming the individual writers. They are on a deadline, and they are obviously low on the totem pole if they are assigned to review downloadable content. So copying everyone else is like using Cliff Notes on your English homework, only nobody will catch you for cheating since the norm is to copy. Also, I'm positive that the vast majority of these reviewers never played Rez (and if they have, not very deeply), so of course they won't be able to make meaningful comparisons. The problem is in who gets assigned to each game.

And the target audience is always skewed towards the general audience who knows nothing. How many people who read a review of Rez HD know absolutely nothing about Rez? How many people who read a review of Virtua Fighter 5 know nothing about VF? An ideal VF5 review would focus on the changes from VF4 and how they make the game better or worse. Instead, you get this "it's just like any other fighting game, you have your punches and your kicks, you have a story mode, a vs mode" and so forth.



Short version: I don't have a problem at all with these ideas themselves, just the cultural norm of copy-pasting reviews that are more indulgent, less useful, and slower than simply trudging through gamefaqs.

But how do you make a game review by completely ignoring most of the main [discerning] properties of a game? And what else would you say that wouldn't be as hackneyed as this, yet still true and primarily relevant?

Do you mean "a" game or "this" game? If you really mean "a" game, you are attacking a straw man since that is not what I'm saying. If you mean "this" game, I said above why I don't think those factoids are highly relevant. In fact, the problem is that the main properties of the game are given disproportionally little focus compared to the trivia. Anything else that could be said would be less hackneyed, and many things would be more relevant, like discussing the differences between Rez and Rez HD, and omitting the trivia.

Well, the game did support a vibrator device. Synesthesia is a concept that plays an important role in Rez and yes, the game is dedicated to/ inspired by the expressionist works of W. Kandinsky (see credits at the end). It also is a solid rail shooter underneath though a pretty unique one due to the beautifully realized concept of synesthesia. Mood and style are equally important here as the mechanics (aka gameplay).
What exactly was your problem again?

I think a review of Rez HD should inform potential buyers on whether or not to buy the game, not be a discussion of the first Rez and its trance vibrator. There are places for that, but I'd rather not see them in reviews.

[Necronom]

@Enhasa

The 1up review, at least the video review, clearly stated that there are no new levels, modes BUT that the visuals have been improved. Yes, you're right they don't go into much details...but quite honestly, why should they? The price is fair and for that you get visual and audio updates that definitely enrich the experience, even if you've played the game to death (like me).
And who said that a review has to be purely a buyers guide type of article? There are different approaches to reviewing, not only in other media. This whole talk about "new games journalism" is a bunch of crap used by some poor bastards who can't stomach the fact that their favourite media is growing and evolving into something that can and will be approached/reviewed ín a way that is not necessarilly interested in treating it like a car or a washing machine (means going through the same old routine of checking performance, reliability and design on a purely mechanical level).
If I would review REZ (or REZ HD) I'd mention the term "synesthesia" too because that is exactly what Mizuguchi went after and where the game becomes more than just a pretty rail shooter - if a reader already knows that he can surely skip the introduction. Sure, the original term and its actual definition is much more complex than that but why not using the term when it fits? If it's art wankery to you, well then fine...who cares? Imo it's definitely NOT just a rail shooter with a different presentation but more a rail shooter that truely (especially in the 5th level) does blend music and visuals to an experience that simply hasn't been done before. Sure, you could come up with a different term but describing it as "synesthesia" does come very close to what is going on there.
Claiming that everybody who drops the name of Kandinsky (again: Mizuguchi himself stated his works as a big inspiration, not some reviewer!) is an art faggot trying to sound smart is another thing that shows how some gamers fail to understand that the medium, even in the form of a rail shooter, can be a little bit deeper today than it was in the good old 80s. Even if it's purely on an aesthetical level.
Believe it or not, there are people out there, even 360 owners, who actually know who Kandinsky was and to those people this sort of name droping has basically the same effect as telling them that a cameraman shooting a movie has been inspired by paintings of a certain artist. Sure, might not mean much to you, but then...why should an ambitious reviewer go for the lowest common denominator because you're fine with nothing but a simple "should I buy it or not" review?

[Enhasa]

Well I think from what you are saying that you don't really understand my position correctly. Who knows, maybe I should have only said the one-line short version and left it at that.

who can't stomach the fact that their favourite media is growing and evolving into something that can and will be approached/reviewed ín a way that is not necessarilly interested in treating it like a car or a washing machine

This is pretty much the opposite of what I think, actually. In fact what I don't like is formulaic reviews that go down the checklist of graphics, music, controls, replay value, rent or buy, etc for the sake of convention and at the expense of usefulness. "Humorous" trivia in the intro is just one step in the checklist, which is why I don't like it.

Also, if you think the current trend is towards "intelligent" criticism, I would argue that strict copy pasting of buzzwords is in fact the opposite of intelligent criticism. The fact is simply that if one Andrew Vestahl was never born, the number of Rez HD reviews with the word "synesthesia" would be the same as the number of Lumines reviews with it. Again, I have no problem with attaching this concept to Rez, I just don't like reviewers who parrot this information instead of discovering it themselves. Not having a real understanding of the material leads to shoddy work.

Buzzwords don't help describe concepts because unless everyone already knows what they mean, they have to be explained anyway. Were Lumines reviews hurt at all by not mentioning synesthesia? No, because the idea behind the graphics and music and gameplay tying together can be explained just fine without it. You seem to have the idea that I am against describing this for some reason. I wouldn't change anything about how Lumines reviews were approached. I think that the "arthouse" status of Rez only hurts in this case.

Mizuguchi himself stated his works as a big inspiration, not some reviewer!

Yes, I already knew this, K-Project, etc etc It doesn't mean that everyone needs to be told this to enjoy the game. It's like when you are at a museum that offers headphones and listening tours. I would rather examine the art on my own terms and come up with my own interpretations rather than be told all of this in a review (i.e., before playing). If someone wants to play Rez on a basic level, they don't need to know about Kandinsky, so no reason to put in a review. If they don't like the game, or don't get it, that is that. But if they feel something more, they will probably go online later and find out more about Rez and IMHO that is when would be a good time to hear about Kandinsky.

fail to understand that the medium, even in the form of a rail shooter, can be a little bit deeper today than it was in the good old 80s. Even if it's purely on an aesthetical level.

I'm not sure what you are implying, but I probably like Rez at least as much as you do. So I don't know if you're talking about me.

Sure, might not mean much to you, but then...why should an ambitious reviewer go for the lowest common denominator because you're fine with nothing but a simple "should I buy it or not" review?

Um, it is precisely because I do know who Kandinsky is that the name dropping annoys me. Mizuguchi was inspired by Kandinsky, yes. But someone who doesn't know better, reading a review, would probably get the idea that Rez has more to do with Kandinsky than it really does. (Just like how people tend to buy more into "based on a true story" than they should.)

I am really not a fan of appealing to the LCD, but I don't think that omitting synesthesia talk is LCD. Copy pasting vapid reviews and joking about trance vibrators is more LCD to me.



I am going to say this one last time, and if you don't get it this time, I will give up.

You think that there are lots of differences in how we think about the things you brought up in your post. No there isn't. There is just the one main difference. It is my preference that reviews be utilitarian, and it is your preference that reviews be a forum for discussion and "intelligent" criticism. I respect that you have your preference, now I would appreciate if you would understand that I have my own preference, and that it is a preference, not a sign of weakness by "poor bastards" and "gamers who fail to understand that the medium can be deeper."

Maybe I can express what I think about this. I think that a review ("buyer's guide" as you said) and discussion should be separated. After all, for someone who hasn't played the game yet, a buyer's guide is useful and critical discussion about the game itself is not. How is it meaningful when the person hasn't even played the game yet? They won't really understand what is being talked about. Now on the other hand, for someone who has already played the game and wants to read about more it, a buyer's guide is useless, and discussion is useful.

By mixing all of this into one review, you are forcing everyone to read a lot of useless stuff that just wastes everyone's time. My ideal review would be one paragraph long and give the reader info on whether or not to make a purchase. If I won the lottery and didn't care about money, I would just buy everything without a second thought and I would never read any reviews.

Now there would be specialized sites (such as fansites) for people who played the game and were engaged enough to try to find a community online. I think this is where the critical discussion should go. There is no reason for anyone who played a game and didn't feel anything special in it, to have to wade through arthouse stuff they don't care about in a review. This separation is better because it is self-selecting. (BTW, are you one of those people who likes to read reviews for games they have already played? I get this impression.)

What about the people who wouldn't appeciate a game unless they were told in a review of its artistic properties? Well, your opinion may differ, but I don't have any sympathy for those types of people anyway. If anything, they just crowd the pool for people who really appreciate the game with people who trick themselves into liking something because they were told to. If you care so much about people taking videogames "seriously," you wouldn't be a fan of this dilution because it makes it harder for outsiders to take say, Shadow of the Colossus seriously when some bandwagon fan says that it's art but can't explain why.

PS - For the last time, I am not disagreeing with anything you are saying when it comes to game discussion. I do think that is misplaced in a review. If you respect my opinion on this, then there is nothing more you need to debate with me, even if you disagree.

[spadgy]

@Enhasa

Consider that some reviewers might be writing for an audience new to Rez, and some gamer's might not even have been at age to remember it the first time around.

There's no excuse for bad vibrator puns, but in most cases a a good solid review of a sequel that follows the rules of journalism should at least both having meaning for the reader familiar to the game, and have enough info early on to get the unfamiliar reader up to speed. For that reason you have to at least mention it's a rails shooter and ties in with the synaethesia thing.

But what would I know?

[evil_ash_xero]

I am sorta interested in downloading Rez, but it looks sorta..gimmicky. I mean, besides the music and visuals, is there strong gameplay underneath? It looks a bit like Panzer, which I love, but I dunno...can I get some yay or nays here? I mean, is it a good game, and not just a good experience?

s/m

[spadgy]

I am sorta interested in downloading Rez, but it looks sorta..gimmicky. I mean, besides the music and visuals, is there strong gameplay underneath? It looks a bit like Panzer, which I love, but I dunno...can I get some yay or nays here? I mean, is it a good game, and not just a good experience?

s/m

Purely as a playable game and forgetting all the 'games are art' stuff and fashionable popularity? Yes - it's a bloody good game.

[JJG]

Im really insterested now to buy X360.Can anyone post a detailed shmup XBOX LIVE European PAL list please?So far I know:

REZ HD
Karous
Omega Five
Ikaruga
Trigger Heart

I didn't hear anything about Karous but it sucks anyway.

[jpj]

Who is going to be reading a Rez HD review?

that one's easy - people with too much time on their hands

[bcass]

Rez HD is only about 110 MB and it contains both the original and HD versions of the game.

That isn't strictly true. The Standard mode that you can play (as opposed to the HD mode) is just the HD mode at a lower resolution. It doesn't have the old soundtrack, or the old sound effects. It's just the new version in lower res. Even worse (IMO) is that the screen ratio is forced into 4:3, even if you have your TV set to widescreen. Yes, I know the original was in 4:3 but the original came out at a time when practically everyone had widescreen TVs, so most of use will be used to playing it stretched into 16:9. The Standard mode is a complete waste of time IMO.

[Enhasa]

It looks a bit like Panzer, which I love, but I dunno...can I get some yay or nays here? I mean, is it a good game, and not just a good experience?

Well, I think if you love PD, you should try Rez, and vice versa. Orta is my favorite but Rez is up there.

Who is going to be reading a Rez HD review?

that one's easy - people with too much time on their hands

Yeah, I really regret reading any reviews. Not only were they a waste of time, I compounded the error by making a short post here which people responded to, and then it ballooned into a damn essay.

On the other hand, I bought E4 without a second thought (edit: a similar situation to Rez HD in being a remake... I thought "how could you mess up Every Extend?") and regretted it heavily. Not so much the loss of $10 or whatever, as much as the fact that I thought the game was so bad, they didn't deserve my monetary support. In fact, I wish I could have stolen $10 instead of spending it.

Those bastards at Q? weren't going to trick me twice!

[Koa Zo]

The trance vibrator isn't even available for this version. "

I thought we had established that TranceVibration is supported by up to 3 additional controllers.

[Enhasa]

The vibrating 360 controller is a facsimile. The Trance Vibrator and how it relates to this article are PS2 Japan specific.

[evil_ash_xero]

I downloaded both Omega Five and Rez HD last night, and got to check out the first stages of both.

The thing about Rez that got me is that it's such a normal on rails shooter, in the vein of Panzer Dragoon(but stripped down), but that presentation is...nuts! But in a good way. I'll know more about it as time goes on, but it's certainly got my attention.

Omega Five is a "good" shooter. Certainly worth 10 bucks! One thing though...those are the worst character designs I have seen in ages. Are there other characters that you an unlock besides the chick and the dude with the arms? They look terrible! I remember the old days when all you needed was pants(no shirt required), and possibly shades to take on the forces of evil. These guys look like they were out of a Midway fighter from the mid-nineties.

But it's almost all forgiven when I heard "The Gracial fortwess". I read about that on here, but actually burst out laughing when I heard it. Priceless!

I'm of course very interested in a HD Ikaruga with enhanced visuals(even if it's just a bit).

All these Dreamcast games coming to XBLA is pretty exciting, really. I wonder if G. Rev's games will ever make it over?



s/m