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 Post subject: asking for suggestions on tate setup (what kind of monitor?)
PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2005 9:21 pm 


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Joined: 09 Feb 2005
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Location: Berkeley, CA
I am trying to decide if I want to go with a VGA monitor plus XRGB upscan convertor, or one of them Sony PVM monitors w/ RGB imput(ideally around 25").

Right now I am kind off leaning towards the sony professional grade monitors. It's seems that I can get a bigger pictrure, like 25", for way cheaper than a computer monitor. Also it seems that the RGB will be ideal if I ever end up getting a supergun. (eventually)

i've seen some cool hospital sony monitors with metal frames, great for tate
javascript:emoticon(':twisted:')
just curious about your guys' experiances w/ tate setups. Any advice would be great.

c-


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2005 9:51 pm 


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Commodore 1084S all the way.

RGB is SO damn beautiful. You'll love it.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2005 10:22 pm 


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If you're planning to tate, try the PVM-1910 instead of the PVM-2530. It's 19 viewable inches instead of 25, but it will rotate nicely. Both Matt and undamned had problems getting the 2530 to display properly when rotated.

I don't know of anyone who has used the PVM-2030 (generally used in hospitals). It might work, might not. The PVM-1910 is a safer bet.


If you don't mind a smaller monitor, try a Commodore 1084/1084S or possibly Sony GVM-1310.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:17 pm 


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Using an X-RGB 2 (+) with a VGA monitor gives an extremely sharp picture, much sharper than the games ever where in the arcade. Some people like that, some don´t.
An advantage of the X-RGB setup is that VGA monitors are easier to get hold of and cheaper if you´re living in the US. If your expensive RGB monitor should break some day, you´ll have to buy another one, which will probably be even harder to come by in a few years. A disadvantage of X-RGB is limited compatibility with uncommon frequencies. Not all arcade games run with 60fps, Seibu games for example run at 54fps, other games are even more extreme with frequencies below 50fps. The old X-RGB 2 could handle Seibu games, but it´s not produced anymore and hard to obtain, the new X-RGB 2 plus can´t handle Seibu games any longer.
Frequency range is a very complex issue in more aspect than one, actually. Let´s take a look at horizontal frequency: there are basically 3 types: 15, 24 and 31 kHz. 15 is the most common by far, at least 95% of all arcade games run in nothing but 15kHz. It´s also what TV sets use, but computer monitors can´t handle it except with an X-RGB2 or another kind of upscan converter.
Then there´s 24kHz which is pretty rare. Sega Model 2 and 3 use it, and to display it you can use either the Commodore monitors (which are small), or multiscan arcade monitors (which are very expensive), or a FEW old VGA monitors with a frequency range reaching down far enough. No TFT, no TV, and X-RGB2 doesn´t help either.
31kHz is getting more and more common with modern systems like Naomi, Atomiswave, Type X or the new Namco hardware. With Naomi, it´s optional, so you can play Naomi either in 15kHz or 31kHz, but I´m not sure about newer hardware like Type X, which might require 31kHz. All VGA monitors can handle 31kHz, arcade multiscan monitors can handle it as well, while Commodore monitors and TV sets can´t handle it.
Just for shmups, you can forget about 24kHz easily, I think there´s only one shmup (Zero Gunner 1) running in that mode. But if you happen to like Virtua Fighter 2/3, Sega Rally 1/2, Daytona 1/2 or the unported Sega racing games, you might consider preparing for it.
31kHz isn´t essential right now, but it might become so, and all games supporting it look much better in 31 than in 15kHz.
Most important by far, however, is 15kHz, and will probably always be if you don´t want to limit yourself to just a few very new shmups.


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 Post subject: Re: asking for suggestions on tate setup (what kind of monit
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2005 2:45 pm 


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Posts: 171
Location: UK
scrilla4rella wrote:
I am trying to decide if I want to go with a VGA monitor plus XRGB upscan convertor, or one of them Sony PVM monitors w/ RGB imput(ideally around 25").

Right now I am kind off leaning towards the sony professional grade monitors. It's seems that I can get a bigger pictrure, like 25", for way cheaper than a computer monitor. Also it seems that the RGB will be ideal if I ever end up getting a supergun. (eventually)

i've seen some cool hospital sony monitors with metal frames, great for tate
javascript:emoticon(':twisted:')
just curious about your guys' experiances w/ tate setups. Any advice would be great.

c-


I had a 28" Hantarex which was just too big for me - I couldn;t see enough of the screen without having to dart my eyes around, lead to more deaths. I now have two Sony Wega 21" RGB TV's (UK Model) and they work a dream.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2005 4:08 pm 


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Can anyone explain the difference between a playing on a monitor compard to a conventional TV set?

:oops:


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 Post subject: Re: asking for suggestions on tate setup (what kind of monit
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2005 4:19 pm 


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Location: SF Bay Area
JigsawMan wrote:
I had a 28" Hantarex which was just too big for me - I couldn;t see enough of the screen without having to dart my eyes around, lead to more deaths.


You do know that regular shmup cabs in japan use 29" (27" viewable) monitors right? And you are sitting 2 feet away from it. This is the intended medium.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2005 1:31 am 


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Location: Berkeley, CA
thanks Raiden, for the thourough rundown on XRGB. I have been a little hesitant about getting a monitor because of all the tinkering and hookups that are needed. now I think i'm gonna go with one of them pvm 1910 for cost and simplicity.

but 19' is not really and upgrade in size...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2005 2:05 am 


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scrilla4rella wrote:

but 19' is not really and upgrade in size...


Quality over quantity, and prevent the hernia at the same time. It's good. :)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2005 2:30 am 


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SheSaidDutch wrote:
Can anyone explain the difference between a playing on a monitor compard to a conventional TV set?

I'm not an expert, but supposedly the main advantages are 1) Some monitors give you more varied input options than TVs, so you can use an RGB or other such connection instead of the regular A/V cable, which apparently gets you a better picture, and 2) Monitors can be flipped into tate mode without having to worry about damaging them, unlike TVs. There are probably other things I don't know about which someone else ought to elaborate on.
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2005 3:27 am 



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The question does not say what you intend to tate. If its a console game that outputs svideo/Component video I would just use a TV instead. RGB is really nice there is no doubt about that, but the difference in picture quality is not worth the hassle of searching the globe and buying busted up 15 year old monitors for the privelege.


Plan 1


I am opening up more Supergun options as time passes. My first option is to build a home made cabinet using a standard 15khz TV with component input. Then I intend to use it with an external RGB > Component encoder. This is quite expensive in itself, since the encoder cannot be obtained for less than $150 and you need a Euro scart lead with phono/RCA jacks for sound (if your using it on a console that does not have RCA jacks, Superguns have RCA outputs usually). This is about a $25/$30 purchase including shipping.

So for $180+ you will have the nearest thing to RGB as possible, if you don't have a component TV thats more cash obviously.

Plan 2

Another option is to buy a XGA monitor like the monivision series.

http://www.monitoroutlet.com//presentat ... ision.html

These are presentation monitors and will work with the XRGB2+. But also, you can buy the adaptor which allows composite/svideo/component devices to be used also. It also acts a line doubler so you can send a 15khz signal through the optional adaptor and it will upscan automatically. Since the adaptor works with PAL/NTSC/SECAM signals it also works through the 50hz/60hz range so most PCB's between that should sync correctly using the optional adaptor even if it does not work with the XRGB2+. So basically buy this monitor and you have a multisystem Hi Definition TV, a PC monitor and a gaming monitor all in one with a warranty. There are very few monitor/TV's in the USA which can boast those kind of features. Also, the great thing about this monitor is that it boasts a Degauss button and you can adjust the geometry settings at your leisure. Many RGB monitors have a border on the right hand side or the games don't align centrally. With this monitor you can take care of all that in seconds.


Plan 3

I already own a PVM2530 Sony RGB monitor. I also have the cables for the Saturn, Playstation 1 and 2. Whilst the colours are rich and vibrant the monitor looks a bit rough on the outside. The Geometry is wavey in places so its not good for shmups unless you like to see tate scores slant on the edges. Right now I use it for Fighters because there are no straight lines to distract you. It might be up for sale soon. As previously said, the PVM2530 is not very good for TATE as the picture does discolour itself with purple and green hues. I spent $150 on the monitor and $200 to try and fix its shortcomings. It didn't work, I was throwing money down the drain. The PVM requires seperate speakers (Any will do) and its loud. The PVM2530 does have stretch/shrink/vert and hori controls mounted on a PCB on the left side (if your facing the screen). However you will require a tooth pick size screw driver and nerves of steel to adjust because there is like 10,000 volts in there :shock:

So there you have it, the main 3 options. The Monivision option is best, but do you want to TATE a monitor that is 29", weighs 150lbs+ and costs over 1k. Thats the big question.


Hope you make the right choice for you.
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2005 9:36 am 


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Joined: 15 Mar 2005
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BulletMagnet wrote:
SheSaidDutch wrote:
Can anyone explain the difference between a playing on a monitor compard to a conventional TV set?

I'm not an expert, but supposedly the main advantages are 1) Some monitors give you more varied input options than TVs, so you can use an RGB or other such connection instead of the regular A/V cable, which apparently gets you a better picture, and 2) Monitors can be flipped into tate mode without having to worry about damaging them, unlike TVs. There are probably other things I don't know about which someone else ought to elaborate on.


Thanks for the explaination BulletMagnet 8)

btw how long does a tv last if in tate for most of it's use?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2005 5:15 pm 


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It depends on the TV you have, and how lucky you are: some people here say they've been using a TV in tate for years without a problem, while others have had malfunctions happen not long after they began doing it. I'm not sure which models, if any, are supposed to work best...
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2005 5:38 pm 


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Location: Berkeley, CA
nice link neo, now just have to get a couple Gs. (':shock:')


I do really like the idea of being able to use the monitor for anything


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