Cave Festival 2006 : end of the year party in Akihabara!

icycalm · Post by **icycalm** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 6:53 pm

GaijinPunch wrote:Again, prove to me my comment has anything to do with you, and you can have my house and everything in it.

Awesome deal! (If you promise to keep the wife and kid.)

FrederikJurk wrote:I wish my initial comment would have been more like "I am surprised top players actually continue to learn the game faster."

It's cool, man. Let's just forget about it.

EOJ · Post by **EOJ** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 7:04 pm

icycalm wrote:
nor the inanity of EOJ/TWE's self-congratulating, masturbatory replies/blog posts.

Hey buddy, I'm just trying to educate people about the truth. Your article is based on an opinion with no facts/evidence to back it up. That's the difference between us.

Kiken · Post by **Kiken** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 7:18 pm

Fu wrote:Thank you nevertheless. Otherwise there is this pagefrom a Famitsu, Clover-TAC is on but I don't know who (I hope it's not the last).

Clover TAC is the first guy pictured. There were also some older photos of him posted back when ESPGaluda got released on PS2 since he participated in the high-score competition to get on the replay DVD (he was the Ageha player).

jpj · Post by **jpj** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 7:29 pm

cheers for the write-ups GP

it's good that people know that some players credit-feed. zakk talks a lot of sense. i was posting in a thread about this stuff once, and people were *genuinely* debating whether japanese players were better because of their DNA. and one italian even said "yusemi - is it nature or nurture that makes him the best?", and someone replied to it as if it was a serious question!

3,000 credits in a month is 100 credits a day, every day.

these kind of comments put things into a bit of perspective for the rest of us. i also like GP's ketsui dvd translation for the same reason. SYO is a bad-ass at ketsui, yes; but you would be too if you played for 4 hours a day, every day.

(i think these players should be admired and pitied in equal measure)

EDIT: just seen the pics of these guys in the flesh. i take it back, they are clearly the fonzarelli's

icycalm · Post by **icycalm** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 7:34 pm

EOJ wrote:Hey buddy, I'm just trying to educate people about the truth. Your article is based on an opinion with no facts/evidence to back it up. That's the difference between us.

The difference between us is that one of us is a smartass with poor reading comprehension skills and the other one is not. And I am not, nor have I ever been, your "buddy".

EOJ · Post by **EOJ** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 7:38 pm

icycalm wrote:
The difference between us is that one of us is a smartass with poor reading comprehension skills and the other one is not.

I'm glad you've finally admitted that!

Anyway, sorry for the OT folks.

Jamz · Post by **Jamz** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 7:51 pm

haha ;D

no problem EOJ, I enjoy reading Icycalm´s angry forum-messages.

Limbrooke · Post by **Limbrooke** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 8:21 pm

zakk wrote:I just don't think many people comprehend the magnitude of 'play lots' that typically happens. These guys have an absolute ton of playtime invested over the years, and that all translates into experience that's useful no matter what game you're playing.

Granted, I don't think if someone puts a bunch of time into a game they're going to automatically hit world record level. As I said, these guys have years of serious play experience under their belt, so some things just come to them quicker. However, your time will be rewarded with an increase in skill, unless you just throw yourself against a wall with no rational thought as to how to break through to the next level.

I had discussion with a friend of mine of the same subject of playing a lot.
In the end, it was established anyone has to have played a lot to get good at a game. Even if you think you can do well without the experience from countless hours logged, it just can't be done otherwise. I always wanted to be able to duplicate or exact a terrific score in any given game (WIP) and I wanted to play as little as possible. This is a pipe dream at best, although the more time I play eventually when I come to a new game I'll actually do much better than if I had no played not as many shooters before, obviously. Understanding will not allow one to best somebody with lots of application, that's the bottom line.

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:53 pm

Clover TAC is the first guy pictured. There were also some older photos of him posted back when ESPGaluda got released on PS2 since he participated in the high-score competition to get on the replay DVD (he was the Ageha player).

He's always been a Tateha player, which was even one of the points of the interview as he had the high score at that time with the "harder to score with" character.

Kiken · Post by **Kiken** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 1:57 am

GaijinPunch wrote:
Clover TAC is the first guy pictured. There were also some older photos of him posted back when ESPGaluda got released on PS2 since he participated in the high-score competition to get on the replay DVD (he was the Ageha player).
He's always been a Tateha player, which was even one of the points of the interview as he had the high score at that time with the "harder to score with" character.

For some reason I always thought he was the Ageha player. :/

EOJ · Post by **EOJ** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 1:59 am

Yeah, TAC did the Tateha and Asagi runs on the DVD. ISO did the Ageha run. All 3 of those runs have since been bested, though I'm not sure who has the current WRs. Anyone know?

Kiken · Post by **Kiken** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 2:05 am

EOJ wrote:Yeah, TAC did the Tateha and Asagi runs on the DVD. ISO did the Ageha run. All 3 of those runs have since been bested, though I'm not sure who has the current WRs. Anyone know?

I was initially talking about the DVD for the first game (you know, that was included with the PS2 port). Cause I know that NAL was the other player on that DVD.

EOJ · Post by **EOJ** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 2:15 am

Oh, okay. Sorry for the mixup.

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 4:12 am

I couldn't say for sure, but I do know that TAC has always been an Tataeha player for both games. If you find the article in Arcadia, they bring it up, as she's much harder to score with.

All 3 of those runs have since been bested, though I'm not sure who has the current WRs.

Somewhat invevitable. Part of the point of the DVD is that they have 1 month to do record their best run. Obviously they've got practice up until then, but surely with all this alone time with the boards they can come up with some good patterns, but maybe not learn the hardest ones. So, DVD gets published, someone mimics their patterns, tweaks, find a few places to score higher, and bam: new world record. In most cases, these players are already on their next game.

sven666 · Post by **sven666** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 6:29 am

since i myself just got futari i decided to take the SWY route and see how long it takes me to 1CC this game (ie i creditfeed to the end almost every play), from the get-go im already at the last boss pretty consistently at original (much easier than mushi 1!) and usually get to stage 4 on maniac.

i guess i hardly put down as many hours a day as SWY tho but still.. ill post again when i get the 1CCs in, proboably starting with original.

its boring as hell tho, im essentially a score player so once the 2nd credit goes in i usually just start playing with patterns and free dodging.

ed: hmm maybe i should have posted this in the futari thread.. ah well..

EOJ · Post by **EOJ** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 6:42 am

sven666 wrote:s
its boring as hell tho, im essentially a score player so once the 2nd credit goes in i usually just start playing with patterns and free dodging.

Well if you find it boring, you probably shouldn't do it! I only do it once in awhile to practice certain areas, or try some new techniques. Definitely not every run, or yeah, it might get old.

It's really helpful to credit feed to the end and just practice the last boss once in awhile. It's really quite difficult in Futari, much harder than Mushi's last boss, and it requires a lot of practice to get good at.

But yeah, we should probably discuss this over in the Futari thread.

jpj · Post by **jpj** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 9:01 pm

one last point i'd like to make: unless i'm reading it wrong, it looks like when the ps2 port of DOJ came out (april 2003), just under a year from it's arcade release, only 5 human beings in the world were known to have cleared both loops. even today, that number could still be in the single digits. so not every japanese DOJ player can get a 2-ALL

Post by **Dave_K.** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 9:22 pm

jpj wrote:one last point i'd like to make: unless i'm reading it wrong, it looks like when the ps2 port of DOJ came out (april 2003), just under a year from it's arcade release, only 5 human beings in the world were known to have cleared both loops. even today, that number could still be in the single digits. so not every japanese DOJ player can get a 2-ALL

Add a "Arcade trivia factoid:" to the beginning, and then "^_~ " to the end, and you have a PC Engine Fan X post!

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 11:20 pm

Oddly enough: I think a lot of people can get to the 2nd loop. Seems I always see someone get to at least 2-1 in my 50 yen arcade which is hardly a mecca of skill.

oxtsu · Post by **oxtsu** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 11:45 pm

yeah, Arcadia had 75 players on record (top100 DOJ hi-score article) who could reach the second loop, and that was three months after release. No one had cleared both loops at that point (about 15 had made it to 2-5 however).

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 12:15 am

Might as well ask: What are the 2nd loop requirements? Other than being good...

jpj · Post by **jpj** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 1:57 pm

the easiest is to get all ten bee's on at least three stages, with no deaths during the stages themselves, thus getting the x2 for the tenth bee. it's fine to then die on the boss, but you need three x2 golden bee's.

Gwyrgyn Blood · Post by **Gwyrgyn Blood** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 2:06 pm

I recall another way was to die 2 or less times through the whole first loop.

sven666 · Post by **sven666** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 3:12 pm

GaijinPunch wrote:Might as well ask: What are the 2nd loop requirements? Other than being good...

might as well mightaswell ask too then: what are the 2nd loop requirements for regular vanilla DDP? no miss/no bomb and/or +50mil ?

Post by **Icarus** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 3:19 pm

sven666 wrote:might as well mightaswell ask too then: what are the 2nd loop requirements for regular vanilla DDP? no miss/no bomb and/or +50mil ?

Fulfill any of these:
1) All bee medals in all stages
2) 50mil+
3) Best chain is over 450hit (full-chaining st2 should do it)

Might be more, but for now, these ones are tried and tested.

Shalashaska · Post by **Shalashaska** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 8:21 pm

Isn't the max chain requirement ship specific?

Post by **Icarus** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 8:49 pm

Shalashaska wrote:Isn't the max chain requirement ship specific?

It is. Just Googled and found the exact reqs.

- Lose up to two fighters.
(or)
- Depending on the fighter used, have a maximum hit count of at least the following:
Type A: 270 hits
Type B: 300 hits
Type C: 330 hits
(or)
- Score at least 50 million points.
(or)
- Collect all thirteen bees in four of the six areas.

So full-chaining st2 should be enough anyway (there's about 470+ hits there if I remember correctly).

sven666 · Post by **sven666** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 8:57 pm

Icarus wrote:
sven666 wrote:might as well mightaswell ask too then: what are the 2nd loop requirements for regular vanilla DDP? no miss/no bomb and/or +50mil ?
Fulfill any of these:
1) All bee medals in all stages
2) 50mil+
3) Best chain is over 450hit (full-chaining st2 should do it)

Might be more, but for now, these ones are tried and tested.

lol.. ive been playing DDP for about a week now and i dont think i can find all the bees on stage 1 even

my highest chain is ~390 (pretty close there altho i only got it once) but my hs is +40mil and i havent even seen the stage 6 boss yet.. i wonder which of those limits ill break first

Post by **Icarus** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 9:03 pm

sven666 wrote:lol.. ive been playing DDP for about a week now and i dont think i can find all the bees on stage 1 even my highest chain is ~390 (pretty close there altho i only got it once) but my hs is +40mil and i havent even seen the stage 6 boss yet.. i wonder which of those limits ill break first

Dodonpachi is quite fair with regards to letting you into the loop.

In February at the London Meet, I got to the loop on my fifth credit, even after not playing the game for over half a decade. If I remember correctly, the only requirement I passed was the score target (had something like 52mil after destroying the sixth boss, was on my last life with about two bombs left). The score target is probably the easiest to get if you're good at survival: just keep the max bomb bonus going for a while, or stay alive while chaining in big chunks in stage5.

Arvandor · Post by **Arvandor** » Sun Oct 07, 2007 1:02 am

If you can full chain stage 2 and no-miss up at least to the beginning of stage 4, that's like 30M+ right there. But then, if you can full chain stage 2 you don't NEED the points to loop it -_^

The highest chain I've had on stage 2 I think is 488? The max I've seen is 495 though.