Gunstar Super Heroes -- on GBA, screens inside!

Valgar · Post by **Valgar** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 5:58 pm

What possibilities? GBA offers low development costs and a way for them to actually release a 2D side-scrolling shooter.

Super Laydock · Post by **Super Laydock** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 6:03 pm

Nei First wrote:With all the possibilities open to them, why did they have to put this on the GBA?
why, why , why , why ,why ,WHY!!!!?

Straight away, it's gonna be directly compared to the original Megadrive/Genesis version.... so harsh.

GBA outperforms the megadrive easily (except for the resolution) so I wouldn't worry to much about it. If you love the megadrive version even now, good chance you'll like this as well (dispite the limited hardware) if treasure get their act together (as I am certain they will!).

judesalmon · Post by **judesalmon** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 6:33 pm

There is no emoticon to show how happy this makes me.

Nei First · Post by **Nei First** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 6:42 pm

What possibilities? PSP/DS/Console platforms for one.

I don't think the GBA outperforms the Megadrive or the SNES "easily".

I'd like to see it "easily" handle games like Contra, Ranger X, Alien soldier, thunderforce III or IV, Vector man, Eternal champions, story of thor/Beyond oasis, M.U.S.H.A., turtles tournament fighters, killer instinct, gradius III. Heck, compare any of the sonic advance games to Sonic & Knuckles, or even sonic 1, visually and gameplay wise.... It just can't compete.

The amount of action that goes on in Gunstar heroes, if this sequel is anything like that, I hope the GBA can pull it off without flaws or cut-downs, but I can't see it.

BUHA · Post by **BUHA** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 7:00 pm

seriously

The GBA hasn't really impressed me as far as hardware goes. On gradius galaxies, if there's more than 5 bullets on the screen it's slowdown city. Astroboy almost never runs at 60fps, and advance guardian heroes has the same problem. the metroid games move fast as hell, though.

it seems like the genesis has always been the best 16 bit platform for action games. i just hope the GBA gunstar heroes is gonna be up to par.

Ganelon · Post by **Ganelon** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 7:29 pm

And whenever the GBA shows off its graphical prowess, the sound quality appears to suffer dramatically, the worst case being in Harmony of Dissonance where its almost NES quality.

judesalmon · Post by **judesalmon** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 7:34 pm

Are you guys ever satisfied?

Moan about 3D, moan about 2D.

It's a new Gunstar Heroes game! By Treasure! Let's wait until it's out before passing judgement.

Nei First · Post by **Nei First** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 7:43 pm

judesalmon wrote:Are you guys ever satisfied?

Moan about 3D, moan about 2D.

It's a new Gunstar Heroes game! By Treasure! Let's wait until it's out before passing judgement.

We're not moaning, just simply stating opinions. Just because you don't agree or don't like it, doesn't mean moaning.

Davey · Post by **Davey** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 11:27 pm

CMoon wrote:goes well with Treasure's general scheme of not putting out the best stuff for a console until it is almost or completely dead.

Well, if nothing else it gives them more time to figure out how to milk a system's resources and push the machine to its limits.

BrianC · Post by **BrianC** » Fri Apr 22, 2005 12:54 am

BUHA wrote: The GBA hasn't really impressed me as far as hardware goes. On gradius galaxies, if there's more than 5 bullets on the screen it's slowdown city

Huh? I never noticed any slowdown in Gradius Galaxies and if it is there, it's not major. It certainly doesn't slowdown nearly as much as a certain SNES Gradius.

I like Sonic Advance 3 quite a bit. It's a very well designed game with excellent level design and a cool partner system. I think I actually like it better than Sonic 1 on the Genesis. Also, the graphics are very good IMO. Also, collection may seem out of place for a Sonic game, but unlike Sonic Advance 2, the collection aspect is never forced. Oddly enough, I enjoyed collecting Chao to reach the final stage, especially since the real final stage rocks quite heavily.

It seems like the most minor of problems in GBA games get maginified as major problems. The sound of the GBA doesn't seem to be as crappy as it's made out to be and the GBA can in fact handle a lot more than lead on. Double Dragon Advance and Final Fight One both have 6-7 guys on screen with little to no slowdown. Street Fighter Alpha 3 has three different characters on screen at once with no slowdown and a good amount of frames intact.

I'd like to see it "easily" handle games like Contra, Ranger X, Alien soldier, thunderforce III or IV, Vector man, Eternal champions, story of thor/Beyond oasis, M.U.S.H.A., turtles tournament fighters, killer instinct, gradius III.

The GBA can easily handle most or all of those games. Killer Instinct actually had a decent port to the b/w Gameboy. The problems with the GBA Contra III have to do more with botches from the developers than problems with the GBA hardware. As far as I know, it runs as smoothly as it does on SNES. In fact, there is a pretty good GB b/w Contra The Alien Wars that actually does a few things better than the GBA port. Gradius Galaxies runs smoother than Gradius III and looks almost as good. The GBA has a good port of Street Fighter Alpha 3 and you think it can't run Tournament Fighters? Just becuase Astro Boy has slowdown (and the type that doesn't hurt gameplay) doesn't mean that the GBA is weaker than the Genesis. It makes far more use of graphical effects than the original Gunstar. There are plenty of GBA games with just as much or more action on screen that don't slow down nearly as much, if at all. Another thing, it seems sound on the GBA is judged way too harsly. The sound not being as good as SNES doesn't make the sound crappy.

Cugel · Post by **Cugel** » Fri Apr 22, 2005 1:12 am

Ganelon wrote:And whenever the GBA shows off its graphical prowess, the sound quality appears to suffer dramatically, the worst case being in Harmony of Dissonance where its almost NES quality.

Another thing is to get the stereo headphone adapter. The sound for most games improves dramatically with this cheap widget.

Zhon · Post by **Zhon** » Sat Apr 23, 2005 7:33 pm

Hrm - if it were on consoles, it'd be doomed to no sales - you don't just consider hardware power, but hardware audience. Console owners expect pretty, 3d stuff. GBA, you can put a 2D game and still hit mainstream.

mannerbot · Post by **mannerbot** » Sat Apr 23, 2005 8:22 pm

Zhon wrote:Hrm - if it were on consoles, it'd be doomed to no sales - you don't just consider hardware power, but hardware audience. Console owners expect pretty, 3d stuff. GBA, you can put a 2D game and still hit mainstream.

I see your point, but I'm pretty certain that Astro Boy sales will prove pretty dismal despite the high ratings and awards it won.

Ganelon · Post by **Ganelon** » Sat Apr 23, 2005 8:40 pm

mannerbot wrote:I see your point, but I'm pretty certain that Astro Boy sales will prove pretty dismal despite the high ratings and awards it won.

That was his point: that console gamers wouldn't get into 2D games. However, the PS2 Astro Boy was fairly pretty and 3D and seemed to have sold even more poorly.

mannerbot · Post by **mannerbot** » Sat Apr 23, 2005 9:10 pm

My point is that, unfortunately, it's going to sell like crap regardless.

Nei First · Post by **Nei First** » Sun Apr 24, 2005 1:23 pm

Zhon wrote:Hrm - if it were on consoles, it'd be doomed to no sales - you don't just consider hardware power, but hardware audience. Console owners expect pretty, 3d stuff. GBA, you can put a 2D game and still hit mainstream.

Well what about the PSP audience? It has Vampire Chronicles on it and it's a near arcade perfect game. It could have also been on the DS.

CMoon · Post by **CMoon** » Sun Apr 24, 2005 1:46 pm

1) GBA = last console where 16 bit era-type games are being produced.

2) Most people here love 16 bit era games

3) Gunstar Heroes is a 16 bit era game.

4) Members complain when a new Gunstar Heroes is announced for the GBA.

??????

Sure, it might be great if everyone just suddenly acknowledged how great these games were and the whole console industry took a massive 180 toward retro gaming, but we are where we are, and none of our whining is going to change that. The GBA is a great console, if you don't want to play it native, there's the GBA player or you can play it on the DS.

I really don't see where there is even room to complain on this one--I also think Treasure demonstrated its compentency in working with the GBA on Astroboy, so I don't think it is going to have to be audio or visuals getting sacrified.

Given than the GBA is more powerful than any 16 bit system, I'm not sure sacrirfice is the right word anyway...

Neon · Post by **Neon** » Sun Apr 24, 2005 2:58 pm

it's not more powerful sound wise. Doesn't sound much better than an NES

Nei First · Post by **Nei First** » Sun Apr 24, 2005 3:19 pm

C'mon, arn't we over-rating the power of the GBA just a little bit?

CMoon · Post by **CMoon** » Sun Apr 24, 2005 4:23 pm

Nei First wrote:C'mon, arn't we over-rating the power of the GBA just a little bit?

I really don't think the Genesis could have supported Aria of sorrow. I don't know why everyone thinks the GBA is such a piece of crap. I always thought it was nice, but certainly that one castlevania has bad sound.

BrianC · Post by **BrianC** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 3:32 am

Nei First wrote:C'mon, arn't we over-rating the power of the GBA just a little bit?

Thank you for totally ignoring my post about how the GBA is more powerful than you make it out to be. Where did you read about the GBA being less powerful? Or did you just judge the GBA by the lackluster DKC port and the slowdown in Astro Boy?

It's a fact that the ports in the Phantasy Star Collection are in fact good ports. Of course emulation is closer. Ports are almost never exact to the originals and saying that emulation is better than the GBA ports is a bit harsh, especially since it isn't as better by as much as you make it out to be. The GBA version has been altered to work on GBA. However, you guys keep making it sound like the sound and graphics suck in the GBA version., which they don't (except for Phantasy Star III, but that game had poor graphics to begin with). Yes, the sound quality isn't as good as the Genesis, but you have to listen very closely to notice.

The GBA has much better sound than is lead on, but the speakers on the older model GBA are weak, which may mislead many into thinking the sound it worse than it actually is. IMO, the sound is above the NES and GBC and about on par with non-CD PCE and TG-16 games. Then again, the sound varies in quality. However, some developers have tricks for great sound and plenty of space left for everything else. Iridion II and Double Dragon Advance are good examples of this. Iridion II has both excellent graphics and sound . Double Dragon Advance packs some good graphics and great sound in a 32 megabit cartridge.

Also, it's a fact that the GBA has a much faster processor than the SNES and is even faster than the Genesis. The main problem with the GBA is that it doesn't have a special sound chip, but I doubt that the sound takes up as much memory as it's made out to be. Super Mario World and some other games actually have less slowdown than on SNES. Also, didn't I read that Steel Empire, one of the most slowdown filled games on the Genesis, has the slowdown removed on the GBA? Please refrain from judging the GBA from the issues with Donkey Kong Country and the slowdown in Astro Boy. Didn't you even read what I had to say about Final Fight One, Gradius Galaxies, and Double Dragon GBA?

I think the GBA can handle Gunstar just fine, but I'm more worried about how Treasure will handle the game since they have been hit and miss on the GBA.

BUHA · Post by **BUHA** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 4:01 am

i just don't want this game to have a bunch of slowdown like astro boy. that's all i'm saying. Advance guardian heroes has a bunch, too, which isn't very reassuring.

i think the GBA is okay, just it's kinda sad that it's only marginally better than a SNES, and still sounds worse than one, and sounds nowhere near as good as a genesis. it just makes the games feel cheap when i hear crackly sound effects and music. I swear i'd rather have the games sound like an NES than what they sound like now. Metroid Zero Mission makes my ears hurt it sounds so bad.

BrianC · Post by **BrianC** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 4:28 am

BUHA wrote:i just don't want this game to have a bunch of slowdown like astro boy. that's all i'm saying. Advance guardian heroes has a bunch, too, which isn't very reassuring.

i think the GBA is okay, just it's kinda sad that it's only marginally better than a SNES, and still sounds worse than one, and sounds nowhere near as good as a genesis. it just makes the games feel cheap when i hear crackly sound effects and music. I swear i'd rather have the games sound like an NES than what they sound like now. Metroid Zero Mission makes my ears hurt it sounds so bad.

I have a feeling that Astro Boy would have more slowdown if it was one SNES. None of the slowdown is major enough to hurt the gameplay. The game is extremely playable when there is a lot of action on screen. Treasure actually optimized the game for the US. The US version actually has less slowdown than the Japanese one. Also, I noticed people tend to ignore the fact that a certain Saturn game from Treasure had massive slowdown. Lightening Force on the Genesis has noticable slowdown in many areas, but that didn't make the Genesis suck, did it?

Buha, did you check the options when playing Metroid Zero Mission? The game has mono and stereo modes and stereo is not meant to be played without headphones.

BUHA · Post by **BUHA** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 4:52 am

that's a dumb question. stereo vs mono isn't going to make it sound better. and it WAS stereo with heaphones and it still sounded absolutely horrible.

yes it'd have more slowdown on the SNES. it looks a lot better than an SNES game. but the fact remains that it has a ton of slowdown and it's annoying and shouldn't be there. yes, it's still playable. but it's still really annoying and shouldn't be there.

BrianC · Post by **BrianC** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 5:06 am

BUHA wrote:that's a dumb question. stereo vs mono isn't going to make it sound better. and it WAS stereo with heaphones and it still sounded absolutely horrible.

yes it'd have more slowdown on the SNES. it looks a lot better than an SNES game. but the fact remains that it has a ton of slowdown and it's annoying and shouldn't be there. yes, it's still playable. but it's still really annoying and shouldn't be there.

Why is it a dumb question? It's a well known fact that the sound on some games can be scratchy when played in the wrong mode. Maybe it's the headphones themselves that are crappy. Metroid Zero Mission is one of the better sounding games on GBA. Here you go again, making the slowdown sound worse than it actually is. Your description of Gradius Galaxies also makes me wonder what exactly you define as slowdown becuase that game has hardly any slowdown at all.

I want to try and clear up some misconceptions about the GBA. The point I was trying to make was that gameboy isn't the only system with games that have slowdown. The slowdown in certain games for the GBA doesn't make it inferior to 16 bit systems.

BTW, BUHA that longer post wasn't only directed at you and you didn't only say that gunstar would have slowdown on GBA. You made complaints about games that I never heard about before. Please don't post flamebait like that insult to my question. Flamebait only serves to cause more arguments and I want this topic to get back on track. In fact, I think this how powerful the GBA is convo should end. However, I posted my opinion becuase of the misformation and this complaining about the same things over and over again as if I didn't get the point the first time doesn't help the matter any.

Honestly, all this "this game won't work on GBA" stuff is just plain silly. There is barely any info on the GBA Gunstar Super Heroes and it hasn't even been released yet. The fact is that Astro Boy GBA turned out extremely well. Yeah, it does a a lot of slowdown, but most of it is minor and there are hardly any times when the game slows to a crawl, if at all. Also, the slowdown is nowhere near the amount in Gradius III on SNES and the game doesn't slow down all of the time or enough to hurt the game a great deal.

Also, I think I got my point across, so I'm not going to post any more to try and clear up misconceptions or misinformation in this topic. I think it's pointless to take an argument further when what is needed to be said has been said.

BUHA · Post by **BUHA** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 1:22 am

I think you over rate the GBA too much. I always hear you saying "it's not THAT bad" and "it's better than..." it's like a cop out. like saying "well drinking pee is WAY better than eating shit"

for the record: i pick the green ship on gradius galaxies. i get 4 options and the "thrust" laser or whatever it's called. and then every time i shoot i get slowdown. not a whole lot, but it's definitely there. why did they even put the weapon in there if it's gonna make the game slow down?

and YOU insulted ME by asking me if i had it on stereo. OF COURSE I HAD IT ON STEREO. you think i'm retarded? "nah, i don't have it on stereo. mono is where it's at, man!!" and my headphones sound fine. you think i'd use them and complain about the GBA sounding bad if they sounded bad with everything? that's more insulting than saying that your question was dumb.

i totally think that the GBA is a great platform for Gunstar Super Heroes. I just hope that they program it well and keep the slowdown down to a minimum. now i won't post any more about it either, unless you have something else to say.

BrianC · Post by **BrianC** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 1:59 am

BUHA wrote:I think you over rate the GBA too much. I always hear you saying "it's not THAT bad" and "it's better than..." it's like a cop out. like saying "well drinking pee is WAY better than eating shit"

for the record: i pick the green ship on gradius galaxies. i get 4 options and the "thrust" laser or whatever it's called. and then every time i shoot i get slowdown. not a whole lot, but it's definitely there. why did they even put the weapon in there if it's gonna make the game slow down?

and YOU insulted ME by asking me if i had it on stereo. OF COURSE I HAD IT ON STEREO. you think i'm retarded? "nah, i don't have it on stereo. mono is where it's at, man!!" and my headphones sound fine. you think i'd use them and complain about the GBA sounding bad if they sounded bad with everything? that's more insulting than saying that your question was dumb.

i totally think that the GBA is a great platform for Gunstar Super Heroes. I just hope that they program it well and keep the slowdown down to a minimum. now i won't post any more about it either, unless you have something else to say.

You know what, it's my opinion and this getting rubbed the wrong way every time I say something positive about the GBA or disagree with what someone says about it must stop. Yes, I play the games. I didn't mean that stereo comment as an insult and I'm surprised you took it as one. The GBA Metroid games have an option for stereo or mono and I was wondering if you simply had it set to mono by mistake. There is no way of me knowing how long you had the headphones or how good they are.

Also, I say "it's not that bad" becuase people complain about the games to the point of judging the system based on them and becuase of the comments that make it sound like Astro Boy constantly runs at a low framerate. I don't like the slowdown, but it doesn't make the GBA or the game weak or poorly designed. As I said before, nobody says that the Saturn is weak becuase of the Donpachi port and the slowdown in Guardian Heroes. I even gave examples of why the GBA isn't as weak as some people say it is.

Well, you said that Gradius Galaxies slows down every time five bullets appear on screen and I never noticed. I'm not saying you are full of crap, but that comment about the bullets made it sound like the game has frequent slowdown, which is far from the truth. Even if it does slowdown as much as you say when fully powered up, it still doesn't slowdown frequently.

BTW, this accusing people of overrating the GBA is ridiculous. I know it isn't perfect and the sound is inferior to SNES, but I think it's stupid how anyone who says the GBA doesn't have piss poor sound gets shot down.

Would one of the mods here please post something on this matter? Everytime a topic like this occurs someone posts something like "the GBA sucks", the "GBA can't handle these games", etc. Everytime I try to post my opinion, someone takes it the wrong way and treats me or anyone else that defends the systems like an idiot. It's stupid.

UnscathedFlyingObject · Tue Apr 26, 2005 3:10 am

^ Learn to deal with it. If the mods could shut up everybody who thinks the GBA sucks, then they should also shut up the Gradius, Garegga, DoDonpachi, etc haters. Why keep answering to posts that you think are totally wrong? You have tried to share your views of the greatness of the GBA, but if someone thinks it totally s*cks, can you convince them otherwise? They are just trying to convince you that it's not as good as you think.

BrianC · Post by **BrianC** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 3:18 am

UnscathedFlyingObject wrote:^ Learn to deal with it. If the mods could shut up everybody who thinks the GBA sucks, then they should also shut up the Gradius, Garegga, DoDonpachi, etc haters. Why keep answering to posts that you think are totally wrong? You have tried to share your views of the greatness of the GBA, but if someone thinks it totally s*cks, can you convince them otherwise? They are just trying to convince you that it's not as good as you think.

Umm. It's not about views of greatness or haters. It's about people that said stuff completely wrong about the GBA or its games like it not being able to handle certain games or Gradius Galaxies having a ton of slowdown. BUHA's comment about Metroid Zero Mission was the first time I ever heard someone said the sound sucks for that game. There is a fine line between opinion and being outright wrong. It's also about people taking my comments the wrong way and talking to me like I'm some sort of idiot. I would have stopped posting a long time ago if my comments weren't taken the wrong way. This is the type of things mods should handle. It's gotten way out of hand.

UnscathedFlyingObject · Tue Apr 26, 2005 3:28 am

^ I think a lot of people's opinion about Axelay (that it's a 1/10 game) is totally wrong. I can't tell them they are outright wrong if they don't like it. They have their own arguments against the game.